Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the lady complaining about young scholars should have to sit through the IEP process for a 2e kid to see how unfair FCPS is to these groups.

But Young Scholars isn't for kids with IEPs, it's for URMs. If she sits through the IEP process for a white or asian student and sees how unfair FCPS is to them, how would it justify the existence of special programming that student will never have access to?

Young Scholars DOES have kids with IEPs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Id never heard of this before and found out about a bunch of field trips and activities going on at DC school. DC brought it up and we don't qualify based on the following criteria, but this seems kind of crazy. Is FCPS even allowed to do this? Are there alternatives for people who don't qualify?

Young Scholars is:

Designed to identify and nurture students with high academic potential from historically underrepresented groups* in Advanced Academic Programs (AAP) and courses
A strategy to increase access to rigor found in:
The FCPS strategic plan.
The Closing the Achievement Gap framework.
In addition to, not a replacement of, advanced learning opportunities from the FCPS AAP continuum of services.
*Twice exceptional, English Learners, Black, Hispanic, or economically vulnerable

It's entirely possible this is discrimination based on race, but nothing will be done unless someone sues FCPS and brings it to the courts. Any volunteers? Didn't think so.

The Attorney General has taken this up: https://www.oag.state.va.us/media-center/news-releases/2548-march-9th-2022-attorney-general-miyares-demands-fairfax-county-middle-school-stop-racially-discriminating-against-children

Yeah their mistake was stating students if a certain race and ethnicity could be included but others would be excluded.
They are supposed to stick with more neutral high level language to convey this.

Anonymous wrote:the lady complaining about young scholars should have to sit through the IEP process for a 2e kid to see how unfair FCPS is to these groups.

But Young Scholars isn't for kids with IEPs, it's for URMs. If she sits through the IEP process for a white or asian student and sees how unfair FCPS is to them, how would it justify the existence of special programming that student will never have access to?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s bonkers that people are complaining about early intervention to help talented kids succeed academically when they might not have as much of a chance on their own.

I am very against the TJ admissions changed and test optional policies because those try to rig admissions to ensure certain outcomes. This is helping achieve positive outcomes through honest measures!

These coalition for TJ folks have lost the plot.

+1 million. I'm a PP but this is exactly what we should be doing. If you front load services at younger ages, there's no argument to change later policies in the name of equity. This is exactly what Coalition for TJ should support.

Oddly, I came from a poor background but talked my way into a honors program in a so-called prestige undergrad school which was so brutal it made the Socratic method in law school seem like a relative layup.

Which program was this, and how did you talk your way into it?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Id never heard of this before and found out about a bunch of field trips and activities going on at DC school. DC brought it up and we don't qualify based on the following criteria, but this seems kind of crazy. Is FCPS even allowed to do this? Are there alternatives for people who don't qualify?

Young Scholars is:

Designed to identify and nurture students with high academic potential from historically underrepresented groups* in Advanced Academic Programs (AAP) and courses
A strategy to increase access to rigor found in:
The FCPS strategic plan.
The Closing the Achievement Gap framework.
In addition to, not a replacement of, advanced learning opportunities from the FCPS AAP continuum of services.
*Twice exceptional, English Learners, Black, Hispanic, or economically vulnerable

It's entirely possible this is discrimination based on race, but nothing will be done unless someone sues FCPS and brings it to the courts. Any volunteers? Didn't think so.

The Attorney General has taken this up: https://www.oag.state.va.us/media-center/news-releases/2548-march-9th-2022-attorney-general-miyares-demands-fairfax-county-middle-school-stop-racially-discriminating-against-children

Anonymous wrote:Id never heard of this before and found out about a bunch of field trips and activities going on at DC school. DC brought it up and we don't qualify based on the following criteria, but this seems kind of crazy. Is FCPS even allowed to do this? Are there alternatives for people who don't qualify?

Young Scholars is:

Designed to identify and nurture students with high academic potential from historically underrepresented groups* in Advanced Academic Programs (AAP) and courses
A strategy to increase access to rigor found in:
The FCPS strategic plan.
The Closing the Achievement Gap framework.
In addition to, not a replacement of, advanced learning opportunities from the FCPS AAP continuum of services.
*Twice exceptional, English Learners, Black, Hispanic, or economically vulnerable

It's entirely possible this is discrimination based on race, but nothing will be done unless someone sues FCPS and brings it to the courts. Any volunteers? Didn't think so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s bonkers that people are complaining about early intervention to help talented kids succeed academically when they might not have as much of a chance on their own.

I am very against the TJ admissions changed and test optional policies because those try to rig admissions to ensure certain outcomes. This is helping achieve positive outcomes through honest measures!

These coalition for TJ folks have lost the plot.

+1 million. I'm a PP but this is exactly what we should be doing. If you front load services at younger ages, there's no argument to change later policies in the name of equity. This is exactly what Coalition for TJ should support.

When it started, Young Scholars had as one of its stated goals as gaining more admissions to TJ for URM students. TJ was back then an admission by mostly objective standard school, so I don't see how encouraging students to reach higher or think differently was objectionable. The real challenge, and I suspect that it remains, is that a student has to do very well in algebra in 7th or 8th grade. The system was simply not generating enough candidates. It strikes me this is still the case or there would not be a need to alter admissions criteria as is being done today. I have surmised at times that the algebra metric is too simplistic but I have been told it is an excellent marker.

Academic disparities are really a tough challenge. I do support the notion that the earlier the intervention, the better. I did as well as one could do at a top law school, and was the law review editor. Oddly, I came from a poor background but talked my way into a honors program in a so-called prestige undergrad school which was so brutal it made the Socratic method in law school seem like a relative layup. I actually cringed at this teaching method because it was clear to me that some awfully bright people (i.e., smarter than I was) just didn't have that kind of learning style. But the rules of the game at top law schools have been set in place for decades, at least for first year study, which is all that matters. Even the most progressive professors were law review types at Harvard or Yale and they teach the way they were taught, no matter their politics.

The Dean of the School approached me (an incredible guy) and a few of my colleagues to run seminars to first year URM students on how to take tests. I gladly did it, but found the results disappointing. The kids in the seminar by the way were in general far more interesting than the typical I am in law school because its what my family wants types, and it was a joy to work with them. The problem is that graduate school is way too late to make up for deficiencies (and the disparities associated with the group, with a few exceptions who I knew well and who had no need to attend the seminars, were just too large). I do hold out the possibility that my teaching was mediocre but one of my law review colleagues was a URM who led the FBI in their training regime. She was the best student and teacher I have ever come across in any field. It seems obvious to state that graduate school was too late to fix these challenges but I think the point is that whatever can be done much earlier is worth trying, subject to reasonable accountability measures. There were a few conservative students (and I was a centrist) who objected to these seminars and I told them that were simply being petty to complain. The program did not impact them in any way, and even if not successful, it certainly made us question as to how to get better at the endeavor of helping others to get better. Griping about the kids opportunities with these seminars is also reflective of zero sum thinking, which is not the way the world works. These kids gains didn't detract from what I could do.

I know this is way too much detail, but it gives one an idea of what getting people to accelerate in learning entails. The professors in the seminar wanted us to use past exams as a teaching tool. The exams were in the law library so it was no great secret. I objected to this method - although it sounds crazy - because how can seeing past exams hurt? My observation was that these diligent kids who wanted to catch up (after all, most of them had a lifetime worth of lifestyle choking student loans) would memorize the exams as this is what worked in undergrad - and not drill down on the relentless questioning and issue spotting and think on your feet ability required to do well on tests. The endless so what? of the Socratic method. I wanted a much simplified group of fact patterns - very simplified - to get at the method behind what law schools teach. These students with teaching to full past exams would react to new elaborate fact patterns on the actual test by attempting to memorize it just as they did in the seminar. This was no way to get through these tests because virtually everyone who did this would run out of time. You just can't score well if you can't finish the test - scores of points are missed. I did not test this view empirically, but I think i was right. Even if I wasn't it reminded me of the importance of listening to teachers carefully and listen to their front line inputs. My own kids did as well as any students could possibly do in FCPS and while I was in no state to reach their academic levels I was very supportive of their teachers. I hope Young Scholars has the mindset to look at their work critically while being supportive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They discuss Young Scholars at my kids school. No one seems to care. The STEM after school offerings fill up in no time flat. There are kids doing various STEM Clubs and events. I think most people are comfortable with the idea that they can afford a better program so that is what they do.

Some folks want to be outraged just to be outraged.

My child's school has Young Scholars and we are not aware of any STEM events or clubs after school.

I am guessing, and it is only a guess, that the schools that have a larger Young Scholars program in FCPS probably don't have a very large or active PTA. Our school has an active PTA that offers a wide variety of extra curricular activities, although it has been slow to restart after COVID. My kid had the option to join coding club, robotics club, chess club, and the like as an after school activity. There are other STEM options that are regularly announced and advertised in the area. Kids who are interested in STEM have a ton of opportunities. I don't even know if our school has a Young Scholars program. We are not a high FARMs or ESOL school with a high white and Asian population. One parent asked about Young Scholars at the AAP meeting when my kid was n second grade but the AART said that the school did not have a program since do few of the kids would meet the criteria for inclusion based on how the County runs the program.

DS participates in math and science enrichment. He has plenty of friends who do the same thing. I would bet that what he does is a higher quality program then what the county could provide.

I would guess that the Young Scholars program is active at the Title 1 schools, were there are fewer opportunities for all of the kids, and at the near Title 1 schools. It sounds like the program is open to a wide variety of kids so ask about it.

Wow, what school is your child at that you have so many amazing clubs? Our school is not Title I, but it's very diverse - maybe 25% FARMS, and we have none of these clubs. The PTA works with a company to do enrichment classes in the fall and spring and that's it. Once four or five years ago they had a math night and a science fair, but it was once.

This. Our school has a chess club and this is it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They discuss Young Scholars at my kids school. No one seems to care. The STEM after school offerings fill up in no time flat. There are kids doing various STEM Clubs and events. I think most people are comfortable with the idea that they can afford a better program so that is what they do.

Some folks want to be outraged just to be outraged.

My child's school has Young Scholars and we are not aware of any STEM events or clubs after school.

I am guessing, and it is only a guess, that the schools that have a larger Young Scholars program in FCPS probably don't have a very large or active PTA. Our school has an active PTA that offers a wide variety of extra curricular activities, although it has been slow to restart after COVID. My kid had the option to join coding club, robotics club, chess club, and the like as an after school activity. There are other STEM options that are regularly announced and advertised in the area. Kids who are interested in STEM have a ton of opportunities. I don't even know if our school has a Young Scholars program. We are not a high FARMs or ESOL school with a high white and Asian population. One parent asked about Young Scholars at the AAP meeting when my kid was n second grade but the AART said that the school did not have a program since do few of the kids would meet the criteria for inclusion based on how the County runs the program.

DS participates in math and science enrichment. He has plenty of friends who do the same thing. I would bet that what he does is a higher quality program then what the county could provide.

I would guess that the Young Scholars program is active at the Title 1 schools, were there are fewer opportunities for all of the kids, and at the near Title 1 schools. It sounds like the program is open to a wide variety of kids so ask about it.

Wow, what school is your child at that you have so many amazing clubs? Our school is not Title I, but it's very diverse - maybe 25% FARMS, and we have none of these clubs. The PTA works with a company to do enrichment classes in the fall and spring and that's it. Once four or five years ago they had a math night and a science fair, but it was once.

Anonymous wrote:It’s bonkers that people are complaining about early intervention to help talented kids succeed academically when they might not have as much of a chance on their own.

I am very against the TJ admissions changed and test optional policies because those try to rig admissions to ensure certain outcomes. This is helping achieve positive outcomes through honest measures!

These coalition for TJ folks have lost the plot.

+1 million. I'm a PP but this is exactly what we should be doing. If you front load services at younger ages, there's no argument to change later policies in the name of equity. This is exactly what Coalition for TJ should support.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They discuss Young Scholars at my kids school. No one seems to care. The STEM after school offerings fill up in no time flat. There are kids doing various STEM Clubs and events. I think most people are comfortable with the idea that they can afford a better program so that is what they do.

Some folks want to be outraged just to be outraged.

My child's school has Young Scholars and we are not aware of any STEM events or clubs after school.

I am guessing, and it is only a guess, that the schools that have a larger Young Scholars program in FCPS probably don't have a very large or active PTA. Our school has an active PTA that offers a wide variety of extra curricular activities, although it has been slow to restart after COVID. My kid had the option to join coding club, robotics club, chess club, and the like as an after school activity. There are other STEM options that are regularly announced and advertised in the area. Kids who are interested in STEM have a ton of opportunities. I don't even know if our school has a Young Scholars program. We are not a high FARMs or ESOL school with a high white and Asian population. One parent asked about Young Scholars at the AAP meeting when my kid was n second grade but the AART said that the school did not have a program since do few of the kids would meet the criteria for inclusion based on how the County runs the program.

DS participates in math and science enrichment. He has plenty of friends who do the same thing. I would bet that what he does is a higher quality program then what the county could provide.

I would guess that the Young Scholars program is active at the Title 1 schools, were there are fewer opportunities for all of the kids, and at the near Title 1 schools. It sounds like the program is open to a wide variety of kids so ask about it.

You would be right. My DC was in YS at a Title 1 school. Because we were Title 1, there was a full time AART. Because there wasn't a LLIV program, the AART had a robust YS program to compensate. I don't think YS is a one size fits all program. We had a Summer Science Academy that was awesome. That was funded through a grant of some sort that I think came from a private company in the area.

I guess my point is that depending on the situation at each school, YS can be very different, but the admission criteria is standard.

At the risk of sounding smug, I'll say that we are not low income but a biracial family. It was really nice to see my kid hanging out with other inquisitive minds, doing a fun project in the community, and learning from a very young age that great people come from all different walks of life. Fun fact: DC didn't experience racism until later on at a high SES elementary school. Turns out a higher income school population with more access to just about everything didn't result in a better education. It was worse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They discuss Young Scholars at my kids school. No one seems to care. The STEM after school offerings fill up in no time flat. There are kids doing various STEM Clubs and events. I think most people are comfortable with the idea that they can afford a better program so that is what they do.

Some folks want to be outraged just to be outraged.

My child's school has Young Scholars and we are not aware of any STEM events or clubs after school.

I am guessing, and it is only a guess, that the schools that have a larger Young Scholars program in FCPS probably don't have a very large or active PTA. Our school has an active PTA that offers a wide variety of extra curricular activities, although it has been slow to restart after COVID. My kid had the option to join coding club, robotics club, chess club, and the like as an after school activity. There are other STEM options that are regularly announced and advertised in the area. Kids who are interested in STEM have a ton of opportunities. I don't even know if our school has a Young Scholars program. We are not a high FARMs or ESOL school with a high white and Asian population. One parent asked about Young Scholars at the AAP meeting when my kid was n second grade but the AART said that the school did not have a program since do few of the kids would meet the criteria for inclusion based on how the County runs the program.

DS participates in math and science enrichment. He has plenty of friends who do the same thing. I would bet that what he does is a higher quality program then what the county could provide.

I would guess that the Young Scholars program is active at the Title 1 schools, were there are fewer opportunities for all of the kids, and at the near Title 1 schools. It sounds like the program is open to a wide variety of kids so ask about it.

It’s bonkers that people are complaining about early intervention to help talented kids succeed academically when they might not have as much of a chance on their own.

I am very against the TJ admissions changed and test optional policies because those try to rig admissions to ensure certain outcomes. This is helping achieve positive outcomes through honest measures!

These coalition for TJ folks have lost the plot.

anyone think this is a prelude to Miyares investigating the program?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, this is a great teaching moment for you and your child. If you take the time to learn about why students from these disadvantaged backgrounds need such a program, you can explain it to your kid. After all, people of color are forced to have very serious conversations with their kids about things like police brutality and racial profiling, so your kid will survive.

Please do some self-reflection because you may be passing down your unconscious (or conscious) prejudice to your child.

It is a good opportunity to explain that my kids and the young scholars are not at fault here and that this segregation exists because misguided adults chose to separate children because of the color of their skin or the jobs some parents have. It’s a good lesson.

PP, I think a lot of FCPS's "equity" language is nonsense, but your post is ridiculous. Do you also want your child without disabilities to have an IEP? Frankly, if this is even on your radar as a problem, you live a privileged life. Move along.

It's pretty simple. This program admits based on the color of a kids skin... to support kids who may be disadvantaged because of the color of their skin? Why not just have a program like this for everyone to be encouraged achieve their best? Everyone can gain something from this kind of program.

I talked about kid who was admitted previously. She’s white. Not low SES. But she is 2e. Stop spreading lies PP.

My child is also in Young Scholars. White. High SES, but 2e. It’s not about skin color.

So then based on the admission criteria a white middle class neurotypical kid is not listed as qualifying but a black middle class neurotypical kid does qualify or a hispanic middle class neurotypical kid does qualify. And that is not about skin color?

I just think it appears to be a good thing that all kids could benefit from.

Never heard of it before... looked it up and was a bit shocked. But it sounds like it's been around for a while and we can just ask to join, so it's just bad messaging. thanks for the help.

It's kind of about skin color. My kids were not eligible for YS. Some Black and Hispanic classmates with college educated parents working professional jobs were admitted. In that case, the only real difference between them and my kid was skin color and not 2E status, SES, parental education level, aptitude, or anything else.

It's still a great program and not at all a problem. The URM classmates who got in will experience some degree of racism due to their skin color, so they are still disadvantaged based on skin color. It's fine for them to get access to programs that will encourage them. Also, many of them are excellent role models for other URMs who were less likely to consider more rigorous courses. My kids may have been a bit bummed to miss out on some cool field trips and summer programs, but they're otherwise not disadvantaged in any way and don't belong in a program for kids who are disadvantaged.

Kids aren’t dumb. When they ask why and you explain that sometimes people are racist to those black kids, so they get this to make up for it. You don’t get this because you are Asian and don’t experience racism the same way, so the school gets to be racist to you because that’s good racism. I mean there’s no good way to explain this. It gets even worse when you are in a minority majority school.

I’m sure it started as a good idea, but if you are new to all this and your kid brings it up and you look into it, it ain’t great.

It should be strictly along SES and 2E lines if anything.

I think the intention to specifically include Black and Hispanic, regardless of SES, is because of the fact that they still lag far behind in college degree statistics. White and Asian adults are twice as likely to have college degrees. You can chalk that up to culture, values, or a variety of other reasons. But there's value in trying to break generational cycles by helping young kids who statistically aren't destined to graduate college.

But including everyone into these special enrichment activities doesn’t inhibit their college aspirations. But alas, this thread is littered with excuses for obvious discrimination. We can just throw this one on with the rest.