Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK I read a little more carefully and I think what you are saying is that if she ED’s to a highly selective college and doesn’t get in then she will have wasted her ED option. Is that what you mean? That she would be better off doing early decision to a less selective college because it guarantees her a spot where she is more likely to be admitted? I don’t really see the appeal of that given I think she would be very happy at Dickinson or Franklin and Marshall. I think she would want to try to get into one of the others. She has a really solid record and she will have glowing recommendations. She has shown discipline and commitment in a number of areas and looking at a major that more women are needed for. None of that guarantees anything of course and it is essentially a lottery for kids like her but I can’t see her locking into a less desirable option just to avoid being rejected to the more selective ones. Let’s be honest, college is what you make of it and she is likely to get into something good on this list.

Good call on whoever said Towson non-dance majors can’t take conservatory classes. It’s true and that has now come off our list. Groan.

I think there are some people in this forum who have a whole ED strategy that they stand by. I don't believe in it, though. Unless it's your kid's first choice, don't do ED! And don't waste energy thinking through this whole thing. Just EA to as many as have that option, and hope for the best. Read ED regret threads, and ED buyer's remorse posts. Don't do it for a school that your child isn't 100% passionate about over all others.

This is profoundly bad advice that no college counselor would offer. College admissions is a cut-throat game. If you are focused on LACs, about half of all students are admitted ED. If you apply ED, you seriously improve your chances because the college knows you are a sure thing. Don’t waste your mental energy? How absurd. You’ve been investing mental energy into positioning your children for success for 17 years. Why stop now because it’s mildly complicated. At a minimum this student should apply ED to reach schools that would be a no brainer that they want to go to. But I think it’s also a good idea to contemplate ED to somewhat less competitive schools that the student would also love to attend after visiting and thinking it through. A decision will have to be made at some point anyway. If one is nervous about selling oneself short, one could apply ED1 to a dream reach and then ED2 to a low reach. It really depends on how the kid feels about the different options. I don’t think you want to be completely dependent on the mercies of the RD gods. RD is fairly haphazard. All things being equal, you are much more likely to get into a reach or a target ED than RD. Don’t let the challenge of making a potentially difficult decision cause you to bury your head in the sand.

Maybe I've missed it in the thread but has OP said money is not at all a consideration? Top ranked LACs only give need aid. Run the net price calculators. If they are going to cost you $80k and you can't/don't want to pay that then there is no reason to play the ED game with those schools. If you need merit, you'd want to look lower down in the rankings where your kid would be a top student, in which case you don't need to ED and are better off doing EA to several schools so you can compare offers.

ED strategy for highly selective schools is for the wealthy or those with low enough income/assets that they will get substantial aid.

This is true in that if you want to compare merit awards (and probably improve your odds of getting them) RD is the better path. It is false to say none of the top LACs have merit aid/scholarships. Many do that are high in the rankings including Grinnell, W&L, Richmond, Davidson. Northeast schools seem to shun it, likely copying the Ivies

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK I read a little more carefully and I think what you are saying is that if she ED’s to a highly selective college and doesn’t get in then she will have wasted her ED option. Is that what you mean? That she would be better off doing early decision to a less selective college because it guarantees her a spot where she is more likely to be admitted? I don’t really see the appeal of that given I think she would be very happy at Dickinson or Franklin and Marshall. I think she would want to try to get into one of the others. She has a really solid record and she will have glowing recommendations. She has shown discipline and commitment in a number of areas and looking at a major that more women are needed for. None of that guarantees anything of course and it is essentially a lottery for kids like her but I can’t see her locking into a less desirable option just to avoid being rejected to the more selective ones. Let’s be honest, college is what you make of it and she is likely to get into something good on this list.

Good call on whoever said Towson non-dance majors can’t take conservatory classes. It’s true and that has now come off our list. Groan.

I think there are some people in this forum who have a whole ED strategy that they stand by. I don't believe in it, though. Unless it's your kid's first choice, don't do ED! And don't waste energy thinking through this whole thing. Just EA to as many as have that option, and hope for the best. Read ED regret threads, and ED buyer's remorse posts. Don't do it for a school that your child isn't 100% passionate about over all others.

This is profoundly bad advice that no college counselor would offer. College admissions is a cut-throat game. If you are focused on LACs, about half of all students are admitted ED. If you apply ED, you seriously improve your chances because the college knows you are a sure thing. Don’t waste your mental energy? How absurd. You’ve been investing mental energy into positioning your children for success for 17 years. Why stop now because it’s mildly complicated. At a minimum this student should apply ED to reach schools that would be a no brainer that they want to go to. But I think it’s also a good idea to contemplate ED to somewhat less competitive schools that the student would also love to attend after visiting and thinking it through. A decision will have to be made at some point anyway. If one is nervous about selling oneself short, one could apply ED1 to a dream reach and then ED2 to a low reach. It really depends on how the kid feels about the different options. I don’t think you want to be completely dependent on the mercies of the RD gods. RD is fairly haphazard. All things being equal, you are much more likely to get into a reach or a target ED than RD. Don’t let the challenge of making a potentially difficult decision cause you to bury your head in the sand.

Maybe I've missed it in the thread but has OP said money is not at all a consideration? Top ranked LACs only give need aid. Run the net price calculators. If they are going to cost you $80k and you can't/don't want to pay that then there is no reason to play the ED game with those schools. If you need merit, you'd want to look lower down in the rankings where your kid would be a top student, in which case you don't need to ED and are better off doing EA to several schools so you can compare offers.

ED strategy for highly selective schools is for the wealthy or those with low enough income/assets that they will get substantial aid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK I read a little more carefully and I think what you are saying is that if she ED’s to a highly selective college and doesn’t get in then she will have wasted her ED option. Is that what you mean? That she would be better off doing early decision to a less selective college because it guarantees her a spot where she is more likely to be admitted? I don’t really see the appeal of that given I think she would be very happy at Dickinson or Franklin and Marshall. I think she would want to try to get into one of the others. She has a really solid record and she will have glowing recommendations. She has shown discipline and commitment in a number of areas and looking at a major that more women are needed for. None of that guarantees anything of course and it is essentially a lottery for kids like her but I can’t see her locking into a less desirable option just to avoid being rejected to the more selective ones. Let’s be honest, college is what you make of it and she is likely to get into something good on this list.

Good call on whoever said Towson non-dance majors can’t take conservatory classes. It’s true and that has now come off our list. Groan.

I think there are some people in this forum who have a whole ED strategy that they stand by. I don't believe in it, though. Unless it's your kid's first choice, don't do ED! And don't waste energy thinking through this whole thing. Just EA to as many as have that option, and hope for the best. Read ED regret threads, and ED buyer's remorse posts. Don't do it for a school that your child isn't 100% passionate about over all others.

This is profoundly bad advice that no college counselor would offer. College admissions is a cut-throat game. If you are focused on LACs, about half of all students are admitted ED. If you apply ED, you seriously improve your chances because the college knows you are a sure thing. Don’t waste your mental energy? How absurd. You’ve been investing mental energy into positioning your children for success for 17 years. Why stop now because it’s mildly complicated. At a minimum this student should apply ED to reach schools that would be a no brainer that they want to go to. But I think it’s also a good idea to contemplate ED to somewhat less competitive schools that the student would also love to attend after visiting and thinking it through. A decision will have to be made at some point anyway. If one is nervous about selling oneself short, one could apply ED1 to a dream reach and then ED2 to a low reach. It really depends on how the kid feels about the different options. I don’t think you want to be completely dependent on the mercies of the RD gods. RD is fairly haphazard. All things being equal, you are much more likely to get into a reach or a target ED than RD. Don’t let the challenge of making a potentially difficult decision cause you to bury your head in the sand.

I think you should also be mindful of the level of academic accomplishment of a typical student at a top LAC versus a school like Dickinson. With a 35, she is par for the course at a top 5 or 10 LAC. At Dickinson, she might be top 5 percentile. The student bodies are different. The top 30 or so LACs have test score profiles that aren’t far off the extremely high ones of Williams/Amherst/Swat but then it starts to fall off pretty quickly with lower average test scores and a much larger percentage of students not submitting scores (because they are low). Test scores aren’t everything but a rational person would understand a school with much higher test scores has better students. Academically Dickinson is not in the same league as Williams but Middlebury Hamilton Davidson etc are, at least based on stats, but also reputation

Anonymous wrote:OK I read a little more carefully and I think what you are saying is that if she ED’s to a highly selective college and doesn’t get in then she will have wasted her ED option. Is that what you mean? That she would be better off doing early decision to a less selective college because it guarantees her a spot where she is more likely to be admitted? I don’t really see the appeal of that given I think she would be very happy at Dickinson or Franklin and Marshall. I think she would want to try to get into one of the others. She has a really solid record and she will have glowing recommendations. She has shown discipline and commitment in a number of areas and looking at a major that more women are needed for. None of that guarantees anything of course and it is essentially a lottery for kids like her but I can’t see her locking into a less desirable option just to avoid being rejected to the more selective ones. Let’s be honest, college is what you make of it and she is likely to get into something good on this list.

Good call on whoever said Towson non-dance majors can’t take conservatory classes. It’s true and that has now come off our list. Groan.

I don’t mean to suggest your daughter should aim low- she is super strong- but your reasoning here is a little iffy. You are basically saying we might as well try for the very best but if it doesn’t work, who cares, a college is a college. What I am suggesting is she might find that there are schools below the top of the list that in reality are very similar to Williams/Amherst but where she probably would have a stronger chance (as would anyone). Davidson for example. Just take a look at all these schools- you may find your daughter would actually rather go to one of them over one of the tippy top ones just for vibe reasons. If I were 17, for example, I may choose Davidson over Swat because it seems more fun. Swat seems kind of a grind. Considerations like that. Bottom line is Williams and Amherst are really hard to get into, almost like HPYSM. After you get through recruited athletes, legacies at least with Williams, URMs etc. they reject many applicants with superb test scores as you can tell from the CDS. Her stats stand out a bit more as you go down the list from the most extremely selective schools like Williams Amherst Bowdoin and Pomona.

Dickinson has a some great merit scholarships that your daughter may be very competitive for.

https://www.dickinson.edu/homepage/511/grants_and_scholarships

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are unhooked, you need to think more carefully about schools between Williams and Dickinson. In particular, you need to think through an ED strategy. If your ED strategy is ED1 and ED2 to Williams, Amherst and Swat, your kid may end up at Dickinson or F&M. There are a lot of great schools in between that you would have a much higher chance of acceptance if you apply ED than you would at the top 5. I would figure out which of these appeal to your kid. Yes, Williams is the gold standard, but there are many schools not far behind... Consider Rhodes and Furman for merit aid.

OP here. Did you have schools in mind? I thought we had a pretty good selection across the small liberal arts colleges. I will take a look at Rhodes and Furman.

I’ll admit I’m not well educated on early decision options. Why would doing early decision to one of the more selective schools mean she was locked into one of the less selective ones? Is that because you think she would be rejected out right at the beginning?

The best and most likely way to get into a selective liberal arts college is by applying ED1 or ED2. These schools take up to half or more of their classes ED. So RD becomes very difficult with fewer open spots, and you are competing against all the kids who got rejected ED from the most selective LACs as well as Ivy League type rejects. Schools also practice yield management (where they don’t extend offers to qualified students because their computers tell them they are statistically unlikely to matriculate) so outcomes can be flukey.

In a sense almost all of the top 30 LACs are kind of reachy although with a 35 and a 4.0 you are in good shape. But I would worry about pinning your hopes on top 5 LACs just because they are so ultra competitive. If you apply ED1 and ED2 to Williams, Amherst etc, you could well get rejected both times and then you’ve lost your shot at schools in the 10-30 range. You only had two such schools listed- Hamilton and Midd I think it was- which are very close to the top themselves. What I would do is look at the US News list top 30/40 and think very carefully through process of elimination which schools may be really good fits. Then visit them etc. You could reach for the stars ED1 if you want but maybe ED2 if that doesn’t work out have something less competitive in mind. Or pass on the super duper competitive ones altogether for ED. I think it’s very likely your daughter would get into many schools ranked below 30 or so RD probably with merit aid. But you want to be more strategic in my opinion about the top 30ish and develop an ED game plan. Also, the Ohio schools are a bit easier to get into for the quality they offer and have great performing arts- I would investigate.

OP how far west are you willing to go?

I don’t think it’s necessarily a safety, but I’d definitely look at Sarah Lawrence.

With your daughter’s grades, Dickinson should be a safety, just be sure to show interest and the visit will do that. Also Dickinson is test blind. See if she can observe or take one of the ballet classes during the visit. If you are going M, W or F she might be able to go to Intermediate Ballet. There are actually some very good dancers in that class. Dickinson would probably give your daughter good merit. Good luck!

Anonymous wrote:Check Denison. They definitely have a dance program, not sure it would be a safety

+1

It's a wonderful school.

Check Denison. They definitely have a dance program, not sure it would be a safety

Anonymous wrote:I agree! OP here and we have a visit set up to Dickinson over spring break. Isn’t it a target, though? I worry about calling any school a safety that is too small.

NP here. It might be hard to find a safety that checks all the boxes. Is there another way that they could express their creative outlet if the school didn’t have a formal program? Maybe have 1-2 safeties with preferred option and 1-2 where maybe a club/student organization and private lessons is a way to stay connected. My kid definitely had imperfect safeties.

Not sure if you already looked at University of Delaware https://www.cas.udel.edu/dance. Benefit of applying to University of Delaware is that they do notify prior to the official early action notification date.. If your child applies in September (they self report grades with SRAR website) they could potentially get a decision in November.

I agree! OP here and we have a visit set up to Dickinson over spring break. Isn’t it a target, though? I worry about calling any school a safety that is too small.

Dickinson is your hidden gem.