Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't legally sign a contract to buy a car, a house, etc. until you're 18, but you can have a double mastectomy (and yes, this is happening to minors).

Puberty blockers aren't anything to be taken lightly either. Many think the results are reversible, but that's not often the case.

Many European countries are reversing course on these medical "interventions", even progressive Sweden, Finland, Denmark...

Please find me one exame of a pre 18 year old having a double mastectomy.

Not hard to do

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/26/health/top-surgery-transgender-teenagers.html

WHO CARES??!! You worry about your kids, let other people worry about their kids!!!!! Who the hell do people think they are to even have an opinion on this if it's not their family member. Mind your own damn business and stop it with all this crap.

NP. My child will never get any sort of “puberty blockers” while they’re under 18. Ever. Still good?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't legally sign a contract to buy a car, a house, etc. until you're 18, but you can have a double mastectomy (and yes, this is happening to minors).

Puberty blockers aren't anything to be taken lightly either. Many think the results are reversible, but that's not often the case.

Many European countries are reversing course on these medical "interventions", even progressive Sweden, Finland, Denmark...

Please find me one exame of a pre 18 year old having a double mastectomy.

Not hard to do

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/26/health/top-surgery-transgender-teenagers.html

WHO CARES??!! You worry about your kids, let other people worry about their kids!!!!! Who the hell do people think they are to even have an opinion on this if it's not their family member. Mind your own damn business and stop it with all this crap.

So, you’re against child abuse laws and truancy laws?

You're disgusting to equate the two. I see what you're trying to do and won't engage. People like you make me sick.

You said everyone should only worry about their own kids and that we can’t have opinions about other people’s kids. If that’s your stance then I hope you won’t bother calling the police if you see your neighbor beating his kids.

That's, as PP noted, illegal. Beating kids is an illegal activity. Kind of black and white, except for the religious whackos who claim spare the rod, spoil the child. So I think most of us in this country can agree that beating children is a bad thing. Not much grey area there.
No grey areas around schooling. Required to go. Education good. Truancy bad. Not much to consider there.
Mental health issues are grey. I think most of us would agree, and yet you keep acting like it's a black and white issue and approaching it with such simple, linear thinking. It used to be a black and white issue to do electro shock therapy. Not anymore because we've learned how to do better. It used to be that certain medications were given for certain mental health disorders like schizophrenia. Not anymore because we've learned how to do better.
It used to be that we wouldn't attempt to help kids who identify as transgender. Not anymore because we've learned how to do better.
But if you want your kid to stay the course and not offer them help, that's your right as their parent. Good luck to you.

One day we will say…we used to pump transgender kids full of hormones and cut off their breasts, until we learned that was insane.

Anonymous wrote:I am not sure what I would do as a parent if my kid struggles with his body and gender. I think I would try to pull out all the stops, therapy, change schools, completely change the whole family's lifestyle, move to another country/culture, etc. before supporting surgery or sterilization.

My kid (over 18) was sucked into this movement. ADHD/ASP/OCD. Tons of therapy as a kid and on meds. Very low self-esteem due to weight issues caused, frankly, by doctors who refused to treat a diagnosed thyroid issue because they were afraid of lawsuits (adult endo started treating him the year of his 18th birthday and told us as much). One one hand, my kid has found an accepting group. On the other hand, the further damage being done due to hormones, etc are not helping high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, etc. I don’t expect my kid to survive these treatments. Asking questions and bringing up concerns got me ostracized from my family at first (still by spouse). Sibling now sees it and is in full agreement with me. It’s a sad situation all-around. I don’t care how my kid identifies, who my kid sleeps with, etc. I just want my kid off ANY drugs that affect his current medical conditions. My kid would have a real shot at life with the new diabetes drugs out there. It all makes me sick, that the gender-affirming is so prominent that it can cause doctors to ignore other medical issues for fear of government retributionl

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who support hormones and surgeries for minors should read some posts on r/detrans. The stories of regret are compelling.

So are the ones of the families and friends of people who committed suicide, or people who had to stay closeted because they feared for their safety if they transitioned openly.

+1

Someone upthread said something sensible like perhaps there needs to be more stringent rules around this and I agree with that person.

But I also don’t trust the hateful people in the GOP to want to do anything even slightly supportive of LGBTQIA+. They don’t actually care about the children in these circumstances; if they did they wouldn’t try to turn up the anti-trans temperature with everything they do.

You are missing the huge numbers of traditionally left-leaning people deeply concerned about what is happening to young people in gender clinics today. This whistle blower, herself married to a transman, who couldn’t take it anymore and left her job at a gender clinic and is now speaking out. This isn’t and shouldn’t be a left-right issue. https://www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids

It shouldn’t be political, no. But show me a single example of a Republican acting in good faith towards the entire LGBTQIA+ population, excluding those who have children in that population. They don’t. This isn’t a movement to save children from irreparable harm, this is another move by Republicans to make life as a trans person more dangerous. That’s all. You ascribe different motivations based on your feelings about Republicans.

And for the record, I am a deep blue Democrat who violates the predominant beliefs and doesn’t believe that trans people are the sex they want to be, but I’m also aware enough to treat each and every trans person with respect. I just don’t think the GOP cares a whit about children. They don’t.

And I don’t care about the motivations of people on the right. Children are being harmed by the current “affirmative-only” approach to transgender issues. I am not the only traditionally left-leaning person who thinks people have lost their minds on this issue. We are sacrificing a generation of our brightest, quirkiest, most-sensitive girls who in another time would have been goth or emo or cutters or anorexics, and telling them they were born in the wrong body and can be fixed with hormones and surgery. This is not okay. Pharmaceutical companies are getting rich because a bunch of well-meaning leftists can’t fathom agreeing with someone across the aisle. Open your eyes to the medical abomination that is happening right now. Children cannot consent to these treatments. This is not okay.

So do you (and any other liberals who oppose treating trans kids) think that trans adults should receive medical treatment, or do you think that trans people are mentally ill and need to accept the gender they were assigned at birth and work through their issues in therapy without hormone treatments?

I believe there really are trans people, it's just very rare, and adults should pursue treatment for valid cases. I think a large percentage of trans kids are not actually trans and are questioning themselves due to social media influences and social pressures. Kids and teens should not be guided into life altering surgery unless they have shown signs of gender dysphoria their whole life. I think it's safe to say a high percentage will revert back to their original pronouns as they grow into adulthood or even go off to college.

+1. I think there is normal questioning of your sexual orientation and gender identity in adolescence. I am a happily married cis female and as a teen I briefly had a crush on a girl and also spent time wondering if life would be better as a boy because I didn't fit in with girly girls. I am glad am not going through that today. Just watched my nieces fi through similar questioning in their teens. Nowadays kids are able to be more open and vocal about those thoughts and feelings, which is good. However well meaning adults or friends may jump the gun in believing those verbalized thoughts are indicative of something more than it is.

Do you think the trans people you believe are really trans didn’t find out they were trans until they were adults?

+1

I'm trans. I knew my whole life even if I didn't know the words for it. I had pretty much all the stereotypical childhood dysphoria. I would go into my mom's closet and try on her skirt and walk in her heels. When your cis daughter does this, it cute and she's being like mommy. When the "son" does it, it's a shameful experience and they are told not to do this. It's wrong you're told. I grew up wishing I was a girl every day of my life. I went to bed every night praying to god that I wake up a girl. It never happened and I stopped believing in god. I knew with my earliest memories.

I have no experience with what it's like being an out trans kid today but I can speak from my own experience and I knew that I was trans. I wish puberty blockers were a thing back then. Instead I've spent a small fortune on hair removal and voice coaching in order to achieve a more feminine voice since I went through male puberty. I know several trans women that had to pull their retirement savings for bottom surgery. I know one that sold her house and used the proceeds for facial feminization surgery (this can cost upwards of $80,000) due to her genetics and male puberty. The tragedy of someone going on testosterone then realizing they're a cis woman and dealing with this sort of thing? I'm all too familiar with the experience. It is tragic. It's traumatic. Something inside of me shattered when I started growing facial hair so I understand how they feel. The difference is, people are trying to pass laws protecting these cis people from making mistakes and simply ignoring or outright disregarding the reality for those of us that are actually transgender.

I don't pretend to understand how someone makes it all the way through getting surgery then realizing they're not trans but it does seem to happen in some situations. While I personally don't agree with banning gender affirming care for those under 18, a ban on surgery wouldn't affect very many people as it's rare so maybe that is a good compromise. Kim Petras is the youngest woman to get a vaginoplasty in the world and as far as I know, she hasn't regretted it. Puberty blockers for AMAB trans girls are absolutely a necessity if they wish to avoid going through male puberty and the irreversible changes to the body it causes. It can't be considered a tragedy for cis girls to make a mistake and deal with the changes caused by male puberty but not for trans girls. The argument against puberty blockers is that you might get osteoporosis in old age which is something that could happen anyway. While there are some edge cases where someone has really negative experiences with the medication, that is true of literally every medication. To me, the issue here is that so many cisgender people are sympathizing with a small number of cis people that made a mistake in transitioning while ignoring and not at all sympathizing with the actual trans kids that you're trying to force through their natal puberty because we (trans people) make you feel icky.

[guardian]

Anonymous wrote:Many of us who are raising questions about teen medical transition are liberals. Like the St. Louis woman in the article that was linked in this thread, we are well-meaning allies who have seen cult groupthink replace honest self-exploration. Stop straw-manning and making us out to be Trumpers. I read "woke" in any Internet data collection's algorithm.

This.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who support hormones and surgeries for minors should read some posts on r/detrans. The stories of regret are compelling.

So are the ones of the families and friends of people who committed suicide, or people who had to stay closeted because they feared for their safety if they transitioned openly.

+1

Someone upthread said something sensible like perhaps there needs to be more stringent rules around this and I agree with that person.

But I also don’t trust the hateful people in the GOP to want to do anything even slightly supportive of LGBTQIA+. They don’t actually care about the children in these circumstances; if they did they wouldn’t try to turn up the anti-trans temperature with everything they do.

You are missing the huge numbers of traditionally left-leaning people deeply concerned about what is happening to young people in gender clinics today. This whistle blower, herself married to a transman, who couldn’t take it anymore and left her job at a gender clinic and is now speaking out. This isn’t and shouldn’t be a left-right issue. https://www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids

It shouldn’t be political, no. But show me a single example of a Republican acting in good faith towards the entire LGBTQIA+ population, excluding those who have children in that population. They don’t. This isn’t a movement to save children from irreparable harm, this is another move by Republicans to make life as a trans person more dangerous. That’s all. You ascribe different motivations based on your feelings about Republicans.

And for the record, I am a deep blue Democrat who violates the predominant beliefs and doesn’t believe that trans people are the sex they want to be, but I’m also aware enough to treat each and every trans person with respect. I just don’t think the GOP cares a whit about children. They don’t.

And I don’t care about the motivations of people on the right. Children are being harmed by the current “affirmative-only” approach to transgender issues. I am not the only traditionally left-leaning person who thinks people have lost their minds on this issue. We are sacrificing a generation of our brightest, quirkiest, most-sensitive girls who in another time would have been goth or emo or cutters or anorexics, and telling them they were born in the wrong body and can be fixed with hormones and surgery. This is not okay. Pharmaceutical companies are getting rich because a bunch of well-meaning leftists can’t fathom agreeing with someone across the aisle. Open your eyes to the medical abomination that is happening right now. Children cannot consent to these treatments. This is not okay.

So do you (and any other liberals who oppose treating trans kids) think that trans adults should receive medical treatment, or do you think that trans people are mentally ill and need to accept the gender they were assigned at birth and work through their issues in therapy without hormone treatments?

I believe there really are trans people, it's just very rare, and adults should pursue treatment for valid cases. I think a large percentage of trans kids are not actually trans and are questioning themselves due to social media influences and social pressures. Kids and teens should not be guided into life altering surgery unless they have shown signs of gender dysphoria their whole life. I think it's safe to say a high percentage will revert back to their original pronouns as they grow into adulthood or even go off to college.

+1. I think there is normal questioning of your sexual orientation and gender identity in adolescence. I am a happily married cis female and as a teen I briefly had a crush on a girl and also spent time wondering if life would be better as a boy because I didn't fit in with girly girls. I am glad am not going through that today. Just watched my nieces fi through similar questioning in their teens. Nowadays kids are able to be more open and vocal about those thoughts and feelings, which is good. However well meaning adults or friends may jump the gun in believing those verbalized thoughts are indicative of something more than it is.

Do you think the trans people you believe are really trans didn’t find out they were trans until they were adults?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who support hormones and surgeries for minors should read some posts on r/detrans. The stories of regret are compelling.

So are the ones of the families and friends of people who committed suicide, or people who had to stay closeted because they feared for their safety if they transitioned openly.

+1

Someone upthread said something sensible like perhaps there needs to be more stringent rules around this and I agree with that person.

But I also don’t trust the hateful people in the GOP to want to do anything even slightly supportive of LGBTQIA+. They don’t actually care about the children in these circumstances; if they did they wouldn’t try to turn up the anti-trans temperature with everything they do.

You are missing the huge numbers of traditionally left-leaning people deeply concerned about what is happening to young people in gender clinics today. This whistle blower, herself married to a transman, who couldn’t take it anymore and left her job at a gender clinic and is now speaking out. This isn’t and shouldn’t be a left-right issue. https://www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids

It shouldn’t be political, no. But show me a single example of a Republican acting in good faith towards the entire LGBTQIA+ population, excluding those who have children in that population. They don’t. This isn’t a movement to save children from irreparable harm, this is another move by Republicans to make life as a trans person more dangerous. That’s all. You ascribe different motivations based on your feelings about Republicans.

And for the record, I am a deep blue Democrat who violates the predominant beliefs and doesn’t believe that trans people are the sex they want to be, but I’m also aware enough to treat each and every trans person with respect. I just don’t think the GOP cares a whit about children. They don’t.

And I don’t care about the motivations of people on the right. Children are being harmed by the current “affirmative-only” approach to transgender issues. I am not the only traditionally left-leaning person who thinks people have lost their minds on this issue. We are sacrificing a generation of our brightest, quirkiest, most-sensitive girls who in another time would have been goth or emo or cutters or anorexics, and telling them they were born in the wrong body and can be fixed with hormones and surgery. This is not okay. Pharmaceutical companies are getting rich because a bunch of well-meaning leftists can’t fathom agreeing with someone across the aisle. Open your eyes to the medical abomination that is happening right now. Children cannot consent to these treatments. This is not okay.

So do you (and any other liberals who oppose treating trans kids) think that trans adults should receive medical treatment, or do you think that trans people are mentally ill and need to accept the gender they were assigned at birth and work through their issues in therapy without hormone treatments?

I believe there really are trans people, it's just very rare, and adults should pursue treatment for valid cases. I think a large percentage of trans kids are not actually trans and are questioning themselves due to social media influences and social pressures. Kids and teens should not be guided into life altering surgery unless they have shown signs of gender dysphoria their whole life. I think it's safe to say a high percentage will revert back to their original pronouns as they grow into adulthood or even go off to college.

+1. I think there is normal questioning of your sexual orientation and gender identity in adolescence. I am a happily married cis female and as a teen I briefly had a crush on a girl and also spent time wondering if life would be better as a boy because I didn't fit in with girly girls. I am glad am not going through that today. Just watched my nieces fi through similar questioning in their teens. Nowadays kids are able to be more open and vocal about those thoughts and feelings, which is good. However well meaning adults or friends may jump the gun in believing those verbalized thoughts are indicative of something more than it is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who support hormones and surgeries for minors should read some posts on r/detrans. The stories of regret are compelling.

So are the ones of the families and friends of people who committed suicide, or people who had to stay closeted because they feared for their safety if they transitioned openly.

+1

Someone upthread said something sensible like perhaps there needs to be more stringent rules around this and I agree with that person.

But I also don’t trust the hateful people in the GOP to want to do anything even slightly supportive of LGBTQIA+. They don’t actually care about the children in these circumstances; if they did they wouldn’t try to turn up the anti-trans temperature with everything they do.

You are missing the huge numbers of traditionally left-leaning people deeply concerned about what is happening to young people in gender clinics today. This whistle blower, herself married to a transman, who couldn’t take it anymore and left her job at a gender clinic and is now speaking out. This isn’t and shouldn’t be a left-right issue. https://www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids

It shouldn’t be political, no. But show me a single example of a Republican acting in good faith towards the entire LGBTQIA+ population, excluding those who have children in that population. They don’t. This isn’t a movement to save children from irreparable harm, this is another move by Republicans to make life as a trans person more dangerous. That’s all. You ascribe different motivations based on your feelings about Republicans.

And for the record, I am a deep blue Democrat who violates the predominant beliefs and doesn’t believe that trans people are the sex they want to be, but I’m also aware enough to treat each and every trans person with respect. I just don’t think the GOP cares a whit about children. They don’t.

And I don’t care about the motivations of people on the right. Children are being harmed by the current “affirmative-only” approach to transgender issues. I am not the only traditionally left-leaning person who thinks people have lost their minds on this issue. We are sacrificing a generation of our brightest, quirkiest, most-sensitive girls who in another time would have been goth or emo or cutters or anorexics, and telling them they were born in the wrong body and can be fixed with hormones and surgery. This is not okay. Pharmaceutical companies are getting rich because a bunch of well-meaning leftists can’t fathom agreeing with someone across the aisle. Open your eyes to the medical abomination that is happening right now. Children cannot consent to these treatments. This is not okay.

So do you (and any other liberals who oppose treating trans kids) think that trans adults should receive medical treatment, or do you think that trans people are mentally ill and need to accept the gender they were assigned at birth and work through their issues in therapy without hormone treatments?

If adults want hormones and surgery, that’s their choice. It doesn’t mean they’ve actually changed their sex, but if thats how they want to handle their gender dysphoria, so be it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who support hormones and surgeries for minors should read some posts on r/detrans. The stories of regret are compelling.

So are the ones of the families and friends of people who committed suicide, or people who had to stay closeted because they feared for their safety if they transitioned openly.

+1

Someone upthread said something sensible like perhaps there needs to be more stringent rules around this and I agree with that person.

But I also don’t trust the hateful people in the GOP to want to do anything even slightly supportive of LGBTQIA+. They don’t actually care about the children in these circumstances; if they did they wouldn’t try to turn up the anti-trans temperature with everything they do.

You are missing the huge numbers of traditionally left-leaning people deeply concerned about what is happening to young people in gender clinics today. This whistle blower, herself married to a transman, who couldn’t take it anymore and left her job at a gender clinic and is now speaking out. This isn’t and shouldn’t be a left-right issue. https://www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids

It shouldn’t be political, no. But show me a single example of a Republican acting in good faith towards the entire LGBTQIA+ population, excluding those who have children in that population. They don’t. This isn’t a movement to save children from irreparable harm, this is another move by Republicans to make life as a trans person more dangerous. That’s all. You ascribe different motivations based on your feelings about Republicans.

And for the record, I am a deep blue Democrat who violates the predominant beliefs and doesn’t believe that trans people are the sex they want to be, but I’m also aware enough to treat each and every trans person with respect. I just don’t think the GOP cares a whit about children. They don’t.

And I don’t care about the motivations of people on the right. Children are being harmed by the current “affirmative-only” approach to transgender issues. I am not the only traditionally left-leaning person who thinks people have lost their minds on this issue. We are sacrificing a generation of our brightest, quirkiest, most-sensitive girls who in another time would have been goth or emo or cutters or anorexics, and telling them they were born in the wrong body and can be fixed with hormones and surgery. This is not okay. Pharmaceutical companies are getting rich because a bunch of well-meaning leftists can’t fathom agreeing with someone across the aisle. Open your eyes to the medical abomination that is happening right now. Children cannot consent to these treatments. This is not okay.

So do you (and any other liberals who oppose treating trans kids) think that trans adults should receive medical treatment, or do you think that trans people are mentally ill and need to accept the gender they were assigned at birth and work through their issues in therapy without hormone treatments?

I believe there really are trans people, it's just very rare, and adults should pursue treatment for valid cases. I think a large percentage of trans kids are not actually trans and are questioning themselves due to social media influences and social pressures. Kids and teens should not be guided into life altering surgery unless they have shown signs of gender dysphoria their whole life. I think it's safe to say a high percentage will revert back to their original pronouns as they grow into adulthood or even go off to college.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who support hormones and surgeries for minors should read some posts on r/detrans. The stories of regret are compelling.

So are the ones of the families and friends of people who committed suicide, or people who had to stay closeted because they feared for their safety if they transitioned openly.

+1

Someone upthread said something sensible like perhaps there needs to be more stringent rules around this and I agree with that person.

But I also don’t trust the hateful people in the GOP to want to do anything even slightly supportive of LGBTQIA+. They don’t actually care about the children in these circumstances; if they did they wouldn’t try to turn up the anti-trans temperature with everything they do.

You are missing the huge numbers of traditionally left-leaning people deeply concerned about what is happening to young people in gender clinics today. This whistle blower, herself married to a transman, who couldn’t take it anymore and left her job at a gender clinic and is now speaking out. This isn’t and shouldn’t be a left-right issue. https://www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids

It shouldn’t be political, no. But show me a single example of a Republican acting in good faith towards the entire LGBTQIA+ population, excluding those who have children in that population. They don’t. This isn’t a movement to save children from irreparable harm, this is another move by Republicans to make life as a trans person more dangerous. That’s all. You ascribe different motivations based on your feelings about Republicans.

And for the record, I am a deep blue Democrat who violates the predominant beliefs and doesn’t believe that trans people are the sex they want to be, but I’m also aware enough to treat each and every trans person with respect. I just don’t think the GOP cares a whit about children. They don’t.

And I don’t care about the motivations of people on the right. Children are being harmed by the current “affirmative-only” approach to transgender issues. I am not the only traditionally left-leaning person who thinks people have lost their minds on this issue. We are sacrificing a generation of our brightest, quirkiest, most-sensitive girls who in another time would have been goth or emo or cutters or anorexics, and telling them they were born in the wrong body and can be fixed with hormones and surgery. This is not okay. Pharmaceutical companies are getting rich because a bunch of well-meaning leftists can’t fathom agreeing with someone across the aisle. Open your eyes to the medical abomination that is happening right now. Children cannot consent to these treatments. This is not okay.

Girls are transitioning more than boys? Must be shocking to discover what it's really like to be male (meat for the grinder). I agree that gender affirming treatment needs to go since actual cases of gender dysphoria are incredibly rare.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who support hormones and surgeries for minors should read some posts on r/detrans. The stories of regret are compelling.

So are the ones of the families and friends of people who committed suicide, or people who had to stay closeted because they feared for their safety if they transitioned openly.

+1

Someone upthread said something sensible like perhaps there needs to be more stringent rules around this and I agree with that person.

But I also don’t trust the hateful people in the GOP to want to do anything even slightly supportive of LGBTQIA+. They don’t actually care about the children in these circumstances; if they did they wouldn’t try to turn up the anti-trans temperature with everything they do.

You are missing the huge numbers of traditionally left-leaning people deeply concerned about what is happening to young people in gender clinics today. This whistle blower, herself married to a transman, who couldn’t take it anymore and left her job at a gender clinic and is now speaking out. This isn’t and shouldn’t be a left-right issue. https://www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids

It shouldn’t be political, no. But show me a single example of a Republican acting in good faith towards the entire LGBTQIA+ population, excluding those who have children in that population. They don’t. This isn’t a movement to save children from irreparable harm, this is another move by Republicans to make life as a trans person more dangerous. That’s all. You ascribe different motivations based on your feelings about Republicans.

And for the record, I am a deep blue Democrat who violates the predominant beliefs and doesn’t believe that trans people are the sex they want to be, but I’m also aware enough to treat each and every trans person with respect. I just don’t think the GOP cares a whit about children. They don’t.

And I don’t care about the motivations of people on the right. Children are being harmed by the current “affirmative-only” approach to transgender issues. I am not the only traditionally left-leaning person who thinks people have lost their minds on this issue. We are sacrificing a generation of our brightest, quirkiest, most-sensitive girls who in another time would have been goth or emo or cutters or anorexics, and telling them they were born in the wrong body and can be fixed with hormones and surgery. This is not okay. Pharmaceutical companies are getting rich because a bunch of well-meaning leftists can’t fathom agreeing with someone across the aisle. Open your eyes to the medical abomination that is happening right now. Children cannot consent to these treatments. This is not okay.

So do you (and any other liberals who oppose treating trans kids) think that trans adults should receive medical treatment, or do you think that trans people are mentally ill and need to accept the gender they were assigned at birth and work through their issues in therapy without hormone treatments?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who support hormones and surgeries for minors should read some posts on r/detrans. The stories of regret are compelling.

So are the ones of the families and friends of people who committed suicide, or people who had to stay closeted because they feared for their safety if they transitioned openly.

+1

Someone upthread said something sensible like perhaps there needs to be more stringent rules around this and I agree with that person.

But I also don’t trust the hateful people in the GOP to want to do anything even slightly supportive of LGBTQIA+. They don’t actually care about the children in these circumstances; if they did they wouldn’t try to turn up the anti-trans temperature with everything they do.

You are missing the huge numbers of traditionally left-leaning people deeply concerned about what is happening to young people in gender clinics today. This whistle blower, herself married to a transman, who couldn’t take it anymore and left her job at a gender clinic and is now speaking out. This isn’t and shouldn’t be a left-right issue. https://www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids

It shouldn’t be political, no. But show me a single example of a Republican acting in good faith towards the entire LGBTQIA+ population, excluding those who have children in that population. They don’t. This isn’t a movement to save children from irreparable harm, this is another move by Republicans to make life as a trans person more dangerous. That’s all. You ascribe different motivations based on your feelings about Republicans.

And for the record, I am a deep blue Democrat who violates the predominant beliefs and doesn’t believe that trans people are the sex they want to be, but I’m also aware enough to treat each and every trans person with respect. I just don’t think the GOP cares a whit about children. They don’t.

And I don’t care about the motivations of people on the right. Children are being harmed by the current “affirmative-only” approach to transgender issues. I am not the only traditionally left-leaning person who thinks people have lost their minds on this issue. We are sacrificing a generation of our brightest, quirkiest, most-sensitive girls who in another time would have been goth or emo or cutters or anorexics, and telling them they were born in the wrong body and can be fixed with hormones and surgery. This is not okay. Pharmaceutical companies are getting rich because a bunch of well-meaning leftists can’t fathom agreeing with someone across the aisle. Open your eyes to the medical abomination that is happening right now. Children cannot consent to these treatments. This is not okay.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting that most of those in favor of minors having "gender-affirming" surgeries and hormonal treatment are probably also completely aghast at the idea of Wyoming's marriage law - which currently has no minimum age. In that case, you find it reprehensible that children could be married (I do too, btw). You probably also know that it's considered statutory rape if an adult engages in sex with a minor. Why? Because according to the law, minors are not capable of consenting to sex with an adult.

And yet in this instance, you're claiming that a minor - a child - should be able to decide to have life-changing SURGERY and hormone treatment. The cognitive dissonance is deafening.

You think that marriage between a 14 year old and a leering 40 year old man is the same thing as a child (who probably always presented as something other than straight, cisgendered kid) having multiple medical appointments with pediatricians, psychologists, endocrinologists etc? Huh.

Once again, you've missed the point - which is consent. Why is a child considered unable to consent in one situation, but not in another?

I don't know, maybe because they're completely different. Do you let your child choose what clothes they wear to school? Oh no, how can you do that if they're not able to get married legally? Do you let them choose what to order at restaurants? But their brains aren't fully developed!

And now it's you comparing apples to oranges. Choosing an outfit or ordering at a restaurant is somehow akin to major, life-altering surgery?

That’s the point. It’s ridiculous to compare them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who support hormones and surgeries for minors should read some posts on r/detrans. The stories of regret are compelling.

So are the ones of the families and friends of people who committed suicide, or people who had to stay closeted because they feared for their safety if they transitioned openly.

+1

Someone upthread said something sensible like perhaps there needs to be more stringent rules around this and I agree with that person.

But I also don’t trust the hateful people in the GOP to want to do anything even slightly supportive of LGBTQIA+. They don’t actually care about the children in these circumstances; if they did they wouldn’t try to turn up the anti-trans temperature with everything they do.

You are missing the huge numbers of traditionally left-leaning people deeply concerned about what is happening to young people in gender clinics today. This whistle blower, herself married to a transman, who couldn’t take it anymore and left her job at a gender clinic and is now speaking out. This isn’t and shouldn’t be a left-right issue. https://www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids

It shouldn’t be political, no. But show me a single example of a Republican acting in good faith towards the entire LGBTQIA+ population, excluding those who have children in that population. They don’t. This isn’t a movement to save children from irreparable harm, this is another move by Republicans to make life as a trans person more dangerous. That’s all. You ascribe different motivations based on your feelings about Republicans.

And for the record, I am a deep blue Democrat who violates the predominant beliefs and doesn’t believe that trans people are the sex they want to be, but I’m also aware enough to treat each and every trans person with respect. I just don’t think the GOP cares a whit about children. They don’t.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting that most of those in favor of minors having "gender-affirming" surgeries and hormonal treatment are probably also completely aghast at the idea of Wyoming's marriage law - which currently has no minimum age. In that case, you find it reprehensible that children could be married (I do too, btw). You probably also know that it's considered statutory rape if an adult engages in sex with a minor. Why? Because according to the law, minors are not capable of consenting to sex with an adult.

And yet in this instance, you're claiming that a minor - a child - should be able to decide to have life-changing SURGERY and hormone treatment. The cognitive dissonance is deafening.

Some things you know, like your gender. Some things can't wait or won't have the same results if you wait, like medical treatment. Some things should never be tolerable, like raping children. I don't see how allowing my child to have treatment for gender dysphoria after much consideration and consulting multiple doctors equates to marrying a child off and letting an adult have sex with her on a regular basis. I'm not sure why that's confusing for you either.

This is not true. The point of gender dysphoria is that gender isn't known.

Other forms of body dysphoria, fwiw, are not treated affirmatively. Anorexia, bulimia, etc. How is gender dysphoria different?

DP. This is a very interesting point that I had never considered. Anorexia and bulimia are considered dysphoria that needs to be cured.

It's not that interesting. If someone changes gender, they won't starve to death. I wonder why we handle them differently.

They will lose their ability to reproduce, to sound like their normal selves, to have orgasms, to have a life free of joint pain or free of atrophying organs. You think children can consent to these things?

+1
It's unreal that this has to be explained at all.