Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My spouse is a big law partner. We send our kids to public school and have a house that is in the cheaper area of bethesda (oxymoron) and mostly live like UMC people — nothing designer, our house is super outdated, our cars are heaters, kids don’t go to those expensive sleepaway camps, etc. we do splurge on vacations because he is so overworked that he wants vacations just to be as easy as possible. I think you need to make decisions about where to spend your money to keep your sanity.
We have a ton saved up because he has always wanted to quit but for him the golden handcuffs has really been finding something that is equally prestigious and would not require moving cross country. At a certain point it becomes hard to off ramp because you are so senior no one wants to hire you for a regular old job. He now has sort of a plan of trying to retire at 55 and get a job with a non-profit. We’ll see if that happens.
In this scenario do you have a job?
SAHWs are a big part of the golden handcuff problem. Them not working, and having lots of expensive nice stuff, beach houses on the coast, etc. are a reason the men often have to keep working.
While that’s true, it’s much MUCH harder to make partner and then later become a rainmaker if your spouse has a demanding job. I’m not saying it can’t be done. I’m saying a SAH spouse is a cheat code for doing it and doing it well. I was so frustrated by how much better my male peers at it at home.
Why didn’t your husband stay at home then? It’s not against the law.
He’s a partner at another firm.
That doesn't answer the question.
He didn’t become a SAHP because he was also a career-oriented person enjoying great success at what he wanted to be doing.
ok, so the bottom line is that you really have no right to be "frustrated" with your male colleagues because they and their spouses made different choices than you and yours. your frustration should be with your spouse, not your colleagues, because it was his choices and not theirs that have made your path more difficult.
I wasn’t frustrated *with them.* I reject the argument that SAHWs are a cause of golden handcuffs. I think without them many of these men would have sterling silver handcuffs at best. Reading is fundamental.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:^ Don't you regret missing all that time with your family? I dunno, early retirement is great and I'm all a out it but it seems like you paid a heavy price for it.
These days (esp since covid), law firm partnership generally means a LOT of flexibility on when and where you work. You still work a lot of hours, but partners today are with their kids ALOT. It's not like 2004.
Depends on the definition of "with". Being in the same house is not the same as actually paying attention to them and developing a deep relationship with them.
Why are there so many people on DCUM who not only believe this, but NEED to believe this?
You’ll need to elaborate. It’s not clear which group of people you’re taking shots at / feeling superior to.
People who think there’s only one way biglaw works and that it means never seeing your children and letting other people “raise” them.
I know lots of people in biglaw (as well as a lot of people who have moved in house or to other high level legal jobs but no longer in biglaw) and I think you are simplifying the argument. Certainly many biglaw attorneys, including partners, see their kids and have good relationships with them. But one of the points on this thread that is absolutely true is that in most cases, they have a SAHP or a spouse with a very flexible, not demanding job, who can facilitate that. I don't know many families where both parents have highly demanding, time consuming jobs, and of those I know, I do not think they have the kind of quality relationship with their kids that other families do. I'm sorry, but it's true.
It also very much matters how you structure your career over your kids lives. There are ways to stay in biglaw and still be very present at key times, and then dive back into work when your kids need you less. But again, this is best when facilitated by a spouse who can be present the entire time. But this is not possible at every firm, in every specialty, or for every individual attorney. Many of the stereotypes and assumptions about the impact of a biglaw career on family life are accurate. They don't come from nowhere.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My spouse is a big law partner. We send our kids to public school and have a house that is in the cheaper area of bethesda (oxymoron) and mostly live like UMC people — nothing designer, our house is super outdated, our cars are heaters, kids don’t go to those expensive sleepaway camps, etc. we do splurge on vacations because he is so overworked that he wants vacations just to be as easy as possible. I think you need to make decisions about where to spend your money to keep your sanity.
We have a ton saved up because he has always wanted to quit but for him the golden handcuffs has really been finding something that is equally prestigious and would not require moving cross country. At a certain point it becomes hard to off ramp because you are so senior no one wants to hire you for a regular old job. He now has sort of a plan of trying to retire at 55 and get a job with a non-profit. We’ll see if that happens.
In this scenario do you have a job?
SAHWs are a big part of the golden handcuff problem. Them not working, and having lots of expensive nice stuff, beach houses on the coast, etc. are a reason the men often have to keep working.
While that’s true, it’s much MUCH harder to make partner and then later become a rainmaker if your spouse has a demanding job. I’m not saying it can’t be done. I’m saying a SAH spouse is a cheat code for doing it and doing it well. I was so frustrated by how much better my male peers at it at home.
Why didn’t your husband stay at home then? It’s not against the law.
He’s a partner at another firm.
That doesn't answer the question.
He didn’t become a SAHP because he was also a career-oriented person enjoying great success at what he wanted to be doing.
ok, so the bottom line is that you really have no right to be "frustrated" with your male colleagues because they and their spouses made different choices than you and yours. your frustration should be with your spouse, not your colleagues, because it was his choices and not theirs that have made your path more difficult.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My spouse is a big law partner. We send our kids to public school and have a house that is in the cheaper area of bethesda (oxymoron) and mostly live like UMC people — nothing designer, our house is super outdated, our cars are heaters, kids don’t go to those expensive sleepaway camps, etc. we do splurge on vacations because he is so overworked that he wants vacations just to be as easy as possible. I think you need to make decisions about where to spend your money to keep your sanity.
We have a ton saved up because he has always wanted to quit but for him the golden handcuffs has really been finding something that is equally prestigious and would not require moving cross country. At a certain point it becomes hard to off ramp because you are so senior no one wants to hire you for a regular old job. He now has sort of a plan of trying to retire at 55 and get a job with a non-profit. We’ll see if that happens.
In this scenario do you have a job?
SAHWs are a big part of the golden handcuff problem. Them not working, and having lots of expensive nice stuff, beach houses on the coast, etc. are a reason the men often have to keep working.
While that’s true, it’s much MUCH harder to make partner and then later become a rainmaker if your spouse has a demanding job. I’m not saying it can’t be done. I’m saying a SAH spouse is a cheat code for doing it and doing it well. I was so frustrated by how much better my male peers at it at home.
Why didn’t your husband stay at home then? It’s not against the law.
He’s a partner at another firm.
That doesn't answer the question.
He didn’t become a SAHP because he was also a career-oriented person enjoying great success at what he wanted to be doing.
ok, so the bottom line is that you really have no right to be "frustrated" with your male colleagues because they and their spouses made different choices than you and yours. your frustration should be with your spouse, not your colleagues, because it was his choices and not theirs that have made your path more difficult.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:^ Don't you regret missing all that time with your family? I dunno, early retirement is great and I'm all a out it but it seems like you paid a heavy price for it.
These days (esp since covid), law firm partnership generally means a LOT of flexibility on when and where you work. You still work a lot of hours, but partners today are with their kids ALOT. It's not like 2004.
Depends on the definition of "with". Being in the same house is not the same as actually paying attention to them and developing a deep relationship with them.
Why are there so many people on DCUM who not only believe this, but NEED to believe this?
You’ll need to elaborate. It’s not clear which group of people you’re taking shots at / feeling superior to.
People who think there’s only one way biglaw works and that it means never seeing your children and letting other people “raise” them.
I know lots of people in biglaw (as well as a lot of people who have moved in house or to other high level legal jobs but no longer in biglaw) and I think you are simplifying the argument. Certainly many biglaw attorneys, including partners, see their kids and have good relationships with them. But one of the points on this thread that is absolutely true is that in most cases, they have a SAHP or a spouse with a very flexible, not demanding job, who can facilitate that. I don't know many families where both parents have highly demanding, time consuming jobs, and of those I know, I do not think they have the kind of quality relationship with their kids that other families do. I'm sorry, but it's true.
It also very much matters how you structure your career over your kids lives. There are ways to stay in biglaw and still be very present at key times, and then dive back into work when your kids need you less. But again, this is best when facilitated by a spouse who can be present the entire time. But this is not possible at every firm, in every specialty, or for every individual attorney. Many of the stereotypes and assumptions about the impact of a biglaw career on family life are accurate. They don't come from nowhere.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:^ Don't you regret missing all that time with your family? I dunno, early retirement is great and I'm all a out it but it seems like you paid a heavy price for it.
These days (esp since covid), law firm partnership generally means a LOT of flexibility on when and where you work. You still work a lot of hours, but partners today are with their kids ALOT. It's not like 2004.
Depends on the definition of "with". Being in the same house is not the same as actually paying attention to them and developing a deep relationship with them.
Why are there so many people on DCUM who not only believe this, but NEED to believe this?
You’ll need to elaborate. It’s not clear which group of people you’re taking shots at / feeling superior to.
People who think there’s only one way biglaw works and that it means never seeing your children and letting other people “raise” them.
I know lots of people in biglaw (as well as a lot of people who have moved in house or to other high level legal jobs but no longer in biglaw) and I think you are simplifying the argument. Certainly many biglaw attorneys, including partners, see their kids and have good relationships with them. But one of the points on this thread that is absolutely true is that in most cases, they have a SAHP or a spouse with a very flexible, not demanding job, who can facilitate that. I don't know many families where both parents have highly demanding, time consuming jobs, and of those I know, I do not think they have the kind of quality relationship with their kids that other families do. I'm sorry, but it's true.
It also very much matters how you structure your career over your kids lives. There are ways to stay in biglaw and still be very present at key times, and then dive back into work when your kids need you less. But again, this is best when facilitated by a spouse who can be present the entire time. But this is not possible at every firm, in every specialty, or for every individual attorney. Many of the stereotypes and assumptions about the impact of a biglaw career on family life are accurate. They don't come from nowhere.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My spouse is a big law partner. We send our kids to public school and have a house that is in the cheaper area of bethesda (oxymoron) and mostly live like UMC people — nothing designer, our house is super outdated, our cars are heaters, kids don’t go to those expensive sleepaway camps, etc. we do splurge on vacations because he is so overworked that he wants vacations just to be as easy as possible. I think you need to make decisions about where to spend your money to keep your sanity.
We have a ton saved up because he has always wanted to quit but for him the golden handcuffs has really been finding something that is equally prestigious and would not require moving cross country. At a certain point it becomes hard to off ramp because you are so senior no one wants to hire you for a regular old job. He now has sort of a plan of trying to retire at 55 and get a job with a non-profit. We’ll see if that happens.
In this scenario do you have a job?
SAHWs are a big part of the golden handcuff problem. Them not working, and having lots of expensive nice stuff, beach houses on the coast, etc. are a reason the men often have to keep working.
While that’s true, it’s much MUCH harder to make partner and then later become a rainmaker if your spouse has a demanding job. I’m not saying it can’t be done. I’m saying a SAH spouse is a cheat code for doing it and doing it well. I was so frustrated by how much better my male peers at it at home.
Why didn’t your husband stay at home then? It’s not against the law.
He’s a partner at another firm.
That doesn't answer the question.
He didn’t become a SAHP because he was also a career-oriented person enjoying great success at what he wanted to be doing.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:^ Don't you regret missing all that time with your family? I dunno, early retirement is great and I'm all a out it but it seems like you paid a heavy price for it.
These days (esp since covid), law firm partnership generally means a LOT of flexibility on when and where you work. You still work a lot of hours, but partners today are with their kids ALOT. It's not like 2004.
Depends on the definition of "with". Being in the same house is not the same as actually paying attention to them and developing a deep relationship with them.
Why are there so many people on DCUM who not only believe this, but NEED to believe this?
You’ll need to elaborate. It’s not clear which group of people you’re taking shots at / feeling superior to.
People who think there’s only one way biglaw works and that it means never seeing your children and letting other people “raise” them.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My spouse is a big law partner. We send our kids to public school and have a house that is in the cheaper area of bethesda (oxymoron) and mostly live like UMC people — nothing designer, our house is super outdated, our cars are heaters, kids don’t go to those expensive sleepaway camps, etc. we do splurge on vacations because he is so overworked that he wants vacations just to be as easy as possible. I think you need to make decisions about where to spend your money to keep your sanity.
We have a ton saved up because he has always wanted to quit but for him the golden handcuffs has really been finding something that is equally prestigious and would not require moving cross country. At a certain point it becomes hard to off ramp because you are so senior no one wants to hire you for a regular old job. He now has sort of a plan of trying to retire at 55 and get a job with a non-profit. We’ll see if that happens.
In this scenario do you have a job?
SAHWs are a big part of the golden handcuff problem. Them not working, and having lots of expensive nice stuff, beach houses on the coast, etc. are a reason the men often have to keep working.
While that’s true, it’s much MUCH harder to make partner and then later become a rainmaker if your spouse has a demanding job. I’m not saying it can’t be done. I’m saying a SAH spouse is a cheat code for doing it and doing it well. I was so frustrated by how much better my male peers at it at home.
Why didn’t your husband stay at home then? It’s not against the law.
He’s a partner at another firm.
That doesn't answer the question.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:^ Don't you regret missing all that time with your family? I dunno, early retirement is great and I'm all a out it but it seems like you paid a heavy price for it.
These days (esp since covid), law firm partnership generally means a LOT of flexibility on when and where you work. You still work a lot of hours, but partners today are with their kids ALOT. It's not like 2004.
Depends on the definition of "with". Being in the same house is not the same as actually paying attention to them and developing a deep relationship with them.
Why are there so many people on DCUM who not only believe this, but NEED to believe this?
You’ll need to elaborate. It’s not clear which group of people you’re taking shots at / feeling superior to.
People who think there’s only one way biglaw works and that it means never seeing your children and letting other people “raise” them.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Early retired BL partner, read lots of your posts. You're insightful and have helped me a lot. Seems you had a manageable situation, but left. If not for the crushing workload, then why?
Thanks. i tried to explain this before. I'll try again.
I'm not saying I didn't work hard. I did. But the thing with Biglaw is that it's so all-consuming for so many of its participants that even when you're not being crushed with work, work will often still weigh on your mind. Am I measuring up? Am I slacking? Should I be doing more? Etc. You are more defined by your position as a biglaw lawyer than anything else, and after a while it just takes a toll.
Beyond the work itself (and the pressure to feel like you should be working even when you're not), there's everything else involved. The competitiveness of so many of your colleagues and clients. The snobbery and elitism. The fuddy duddies. And then there's the work itself. Yes, there were times when the work was interesting and rewarding and intellectually challenging, but most of your time is spent on drudgery. And even when the work IS intellectually challenging, the primary reason for your existence is to assist in shifting large amounts of money from one huge corporate client to another. Some folks may find personal satisfaction in that, but I never did.
I gave my firm and clients a couple months notice before leaving to "help ease the transition." Right after doing that I had a conference call with opposing counsel to deal with yet another discovery dispute. During the call it became clear to me -- with light at the end of the tunnel -- that not only was much of the work that I was doing in biglaw pretty meaningless, it was actually downright ludicrous. I just couldn't do it anymore. What a relief.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My spouse is a big law partner. We send our kids to public school and have a house that is in the cheaper area of bethesda (oxymoron) and mostly live like UMC people — nothing designer, our house is super outdated, our cars are heaters, kids don’t go to those expensive sleepaway camps, etc. we do splurge on vacations because he is so overworked that he wants vacations just to be as easy as possible. I think you need to make decisions about where to spend your money to keep your sanity.
We have a ton saved up because he has always wanted to quit but for him the golden handcuffs has really been finding something that is equally prestigious and would not require moving cross country. At a certain point it becomes hard to off ramp because you are so senior no one wants to hire you for a regular old job. He now has sort of a plan of trying to retire at 55 and get a job with a non-profit. We’ll see if that happens.
In this scenario do you have a job?
SAHWs are a big part of the golden handcuff problem. Them not working, and having lots of expensive nice stuff, beach houses on the coast, etc. are a reason the men often have to keep working.
While that’s true, it’s much MUCH harder to make partner and then later become a rainmaker if your spouse has a demanding job. I’m not saying it can’t be done. I’m saying a SAH spouse is a cheat code for doing it and doing it well. I was so frustrated by how much better my male peers at it at home.
Why didn’t your husband stay at home then? It’s not against the law.
He’s a partner at another firm.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:^ Don't you regret missing all that time with your family? I dunno, early retirement is great and I'm all a out it but it seems like you paid a heavy price for it.
These days (esp since covid), law firm partnership generally means a LOT of flexibility on when and where you work. You still work a lot of hours, but partners today are with their kids ALOT. It's not like 2004.
Depends on the definition of "with". Being in the same house is not the same as actually paying attention to them and developing a deep relationship with them.
Why are there so many people on DCUM who not only believe this, but NEED to believe this?
You’ll need to elaborate. It’s not clear which group of people you’re taking shots at / feeling superior to.
Anonymous wrote:Early retired BL partner, read lots of your posts. You're insightful and have helped me a lot. Seems you had a manageable situation, but left. If not for the crushing workload, then why?