Anonymous wrote:This is a troll, right?

It has to be a troll. My husband has been sober for 5 years but even when he was actively drinking and massively screwing up our lives I wasn’t as filled with anger as the OP sounds. It’s too over the top to be real.

Anonymous wrote:While it makes sense to treat the BIL as an individual and for the OP to continue therapy to work through her earlier trauma, it makes equally perfect sense that she would feel the way she does about what she's learned--that is, to anyone who knows anything about dysfunctional life cycles and how they are perpetuated. People subconsciously gravitate towards what their brain patterns perceive as familiar and "comfortable," even if what's familiar and "comfortable" is objectively destructive. So for the OP, her sister's choice to marry and procreate with someone who has struggled with the same addiction their mother did epitomizes the old adage "out of the frying pan into the fire." Maybe it's true that the BIL has successfully remained sober for 15 years. But maybe it's not, and it is a fact that from a genetic standpoint, the sister and her husband deliberately chose to bring children into the world who are very much at risk of becoming addicts themselves. As someone who for different reasons spent much of her childhood having to accommodate dysfunction, I would never knowingly choose it for myself, nor would I put myself in a situation where I'd always be wondering when the other shoe would drop, so to speak.

I agree but the bolded part is likely also a result of your specific life experiences with dysfunction and the way that has shaped you. Many people are able to be married to a former addict and not feel like they were waiting for the other shoe to drop. This is absolutely a legitimate reason for some individuals to refrain from partnering with even a former addict, but for others it is a non issue, both in terms of reality and perception.

While it makes sense to treat the BIL as an individual and for the OP to continue therapy to work through her earlier trauma, it makes equally perfect sense that she would feel the way she does about what she's learned--that is, to anyone who knows anything about dysfunctional life cycles and how they are perpetuated. People subconsciously gravitate towards what their brain patterns perceive as familiar and "comfortable," even if what's familiar and "comfortable" is objectively destructive. So for the OP, her sister's choice to marry and procreate with someone who has struggled with the same addiction their mother did epitomizes the old adage "out of the frying pan into the fire." Maybe it's true that the BIL has successfully remained sober for 15 years. But maybe it's not, and it is a fact that from a genetic standpoint, the sister and her husband deliberately chose to bring children into the world who are very much at risk of becoming addicts themselves. As someone who for different reasons spent much of her childhood having to accommodate dysfunction, I would never knowingly choose it for myself, nor would I put myself in a situation where I'd always be wondering when the other shoe would drop, so to speak.

This is a troll, right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Here's what I want to know.

Does anyone truly believe an addict can be trustworthy? Be honest? Why? Where's the line? What do you need to see?

Here's the thing- we are all capable of anything under the right circumstances. That's part of being a human. Trust but verify. And it seems that your BIL is trustworthy.

15 years of successful sobriety isn’t enough for you? OMG.

+1! Do you know how damn hard it is for an alcoholic to be sober for 15 years?! You probably should have learned that from your own mother’s struggles, but all you learned was judgement. Sad. Thankfully, your sister did better.

Wow. You are one judgy so and so.

You have no idea what is going to happen in the future and this is one of those situations where you could wind up regretting take a hardline stance. What happens if one your kids grows up to be an addict? Are you going to write them off too?

Karma has a way of kicking us in the ass.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Here's what I want to know.

Does anyone truly believe an addict can be trustworthy? Be honest? Why? Where's the line? What do you need to see?

Yes, I do. And I would 100% trust someone sober for 15 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

It's incredibly frustrating -- post after post, people point out that addiction is a real, legitimate reason for divorce, don't get involved with an addict, it's only a matter of time, once an addict, always an addict.

But this isn't a problem? I don't get it. Seriously.

I appreciate that I might be coming from an emotional standpoint somewhat and I'm not an expert and appreciate the insights and recommendations. I've gone to Al-anon and the message I received for years was RUN if you come across someone who is an addict. I think the saying was "don't collect broken toys."

I am worried about my sister. I am worried about my nieces and nephew. I'm not a terrible person. I'm care about my family and have gone through a lot.

I would 100% divorce if my hsuband was and addict and I would not personally marry an addict even with a long sober period. But I also would be totally comfortable if my sister chose to marry someone 5 years sober. I would not feel like he was going to relapse at any moment. I would hope that my sister was choosing a sober lifestyle as well — just sort of in solidarity with her hsuband. I would hope my sister and her hsuband would educate any kids on their genetic predisposition. But I would happily hang out with the guy.

Do you see the inconsistency, PP. I find it telling that everyone agrees that for themselves they would make the same decision as me and I'm right, but me being worried about my sister makes me a terrible person.

People avoid addicts. Even those "sober" ones are trouble, like this PP points out. If you found out your spouse admitted they had a problem with alcohol and were an addict (even if sober), you'd divorce them. So, I'm not wrong here. I find it hypocritical that everyone agrees that addicts are trouble (sober or not) but then bash me.

Make it make sense.

.

Same poster. It isn’t because I think someone sober for a long time is super risky. It is my own trauma that would make me not marry them. You are carrying over your trauma even further in a much more extreme way. I don’t think my position is right in not marrying the person. It is a limitation I know I have.

NP - the PP has done their work and has an understanding of their own trauma and the boundaries they need in order to be well etc… OP, you still need to do the work and increase your self awareness around what your trauma means for you and what works/doesn’t work for you in your life. In the meantime you are projecting onto your BIL, sister and their marriage. This will not end well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How would you feel if you were told the reason why someone didn't drink was because they were an addict or alcoholic?

My BIL never drank for as long as I knew him but my sister in passing mentioned that he's been in AA for 15 years -- years before she even met him!? She willingly met and had kids with an addict.

The issue is that we were raised by an alcoholic. Our own mom drank until she died (an early death due to medical issues). It was never ending "I'll quit and go to AA" and then relapses. It was awful and I can't believe she got together with someone who is just this ticking time bomb.

I don't know why she hid this from me for nearly 10 years. I can't look at BIL the same and feel incredibly uncomfortable around him. I'm actually considering putting some distance between us and avoiding seeing them from now on but feel guilty. AITA?

I would think 'Damn good for that person, addiction is tough'.

+100! Yes! Facing one’s demons and turning them around is no easy feat! Whether is is alcohol or some character flaw.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Here's what I want to know.

Does anyone truly believe an addict can be trustworthy? Be honest? Why? Where's the line? What do you need to see?

You don't sound well. Truly.

See, I'm crazy. Fine. But the point stands, it's impossible to trust an addict. That's why people on DCUM are constantly saying addiction is a legitimate reason (sober or not) to divorce or cut someone out of your life. Because they are trouble.

You are so wrong OP. I say this with sadness for Tuy.

People can’t be trusted who can’t or won’t take personal responsibility for themselves - for their behaviors and their issues. It creates a break in integrity and unworkability in their lives. When actively drinking an alcoholic is not taking responsibility for the fact that their drinking is causing issues in their lives.

This isn’t unique to addicts. This is true for any individual. A lack of personal responsibility will create breaks in trust.

When someone chooses to face their addiction and pursue sobriety they are saying “I want to take personal responsibility” in my life. Over time this creates healing and eventually trust.

To say a former addict can never be trusted is just so so wrong.

It’s also interesting and inaccurate that you insist on calling your bil an addict versus a former addict.

If I took a wild guess I would say the reason you have such an intense reaction to your Bil’s history is actually because you have unfinished and in healed shame and anger within you for being the child of an addict. There is absolutely nothing upsetting about knowing someone is a former addict besides what it TRIGGERS IN YOU. This is something that your sister has clearly made peace with. Do not ruin her peace. Instead take on your own lack of it. Take personal responsibility.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Here's what I want to know.

Does anyone truly believe an addict can be trustworthy? Be honest? Why? Where's the line? What do you need to see?

Here's the thing- we are all capable of anything under the right circumstances. That's part of being a human. Trust but verify. And it seems that your BIL is trustworthy.

15 years of successful sobriety isn’t enough for you? OMG.

I’m confused. I know I cannot moderate alcohol like normal people and so i don’t drink. At all. Isn’t that what I’m supposed to do? I don’t miss it either. What’s the problem? Seems like your BIL is right on track.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

It's incredibly frustrating -- post after post, people point out that addiction is a real, legitimate reason for divorce, don't get involved with an addict, it's only a matter of time, once an addict, always an addict.

But this isn't a problem? I don't get it. Seriously.

I appreciate that I might be coming from an emotional standpoint somewhat and I'm not an expert and appreciate the insights and recommendations. I've gone to Al-anon and the message I received for years was RUN if you come across someone who is an addict. I think the saying was "don't collect broken toys."

I am worried about my sister. I am worried about my nieces and nephew. I'm not a terrible person. I'm care about my family and have gone through a lot.

I would 100% divorce if my hsuband was and addict and I would not personally marry an addict even with a long sober period. But I also would be totally comfortable if my sister chose to marry someone 5 years sober. I would not feel like he was going to relapse at any moment. I would hope that my sister was choosing a sober lifestyle as well — just sort of in solidarity with her hsuband. I would hope my sister and her hsuband would educate any kids on their genetic predisposition. But I would happily hang out with the guy.

Do you see the inconsistency, PP. I find it telling that everyone agrees that for themselves they would make the same decision as me and I'm right, but me being worried about my sister makes me a terrible person.

People avoid addicts. Even those "sober" ones are trouble, like this PP points out. If you found out your spouse admitted they had a problem with alcohol and were an addict (even if sober), you'd divorce them. So, I'm not wrong here. I find it hypocritical that everyone agrees that addicts are trouble (sober or not) but then bash me.

Make it make sense.

Nothing about that will ever make sense to you because you refuse to consider a recovering addict is different from someone with an active, debilitating addiction. You're basing all your decisions and judgments on your feelings toward your mom, not looking at BIL as an individual or considering the science of addiction.

Furthermore, not everyone agrees that they would make the same decision as you or that you're right. You're cherrypicking the responses or portions of responses that you think are supportive of your biases, and calling that a consensus. In reality, the consensus is that you're operating on emotions rather than facts and you're being over the top with your harshness.

Also, of the people who have weighed in on the side topic, there seems to be a budding consensus that you're going to alienate your sister if you don't get a handle on yourself pretty quickly. The fact that she hid this information from you for a decade shows she knew you'd react poorly. Are you really okay with losing your sister over this?

You seem to have a lot of unresolved feelings about your mother and her addiction. Therapy can help. You really should try it. Sometimes you have to try a few therapists to find someone you work well with, and the results aren't instantaneous. Having a healthy mind can be as much work as having a healthy body. It can get better though.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Here's what I want to know.

Does anyone truly believe an addict can be trustworthy? Be honest? Why? Where's the line? What do you need to see?

Here's the thing- we are all capable of anything under the right circumstances. That's part of being a human. Trust but verify. And it seems that your BIL is trustworthy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Here's what I want to know.

Does anyone truly believe an addict can be trustworthy? Be honest? Why? Where's the line? What do you need to see?

15 years of sobriety seems pretty good to me.

+1. My best friend in college has been sober for 20 years and raised three normal children. She is completely trustworthy.