OP here.

Of course it would be a special memory IF everything goes well. The issue is that a lot can go wrong when traveling to another country and I’m not comfortable with those risks because of how young my children are right now. I would consider it when they are older teens.

No one has offered to pay for this trip. Finances were not discussed so I have no idea if they plan to pay for the trip or expect us to purchase tickets. That is why I took that issue out of the equation.

During the call, the question was directed at DH, not me. They only knew I was present in the room.

DH was not invited so that was not an option. However, my DH has a job that makes it difficult to get away. We specifically plan family vacations at specific times that allow for it. Our vacation time together is very important. If he takes the kids without me, I’m losing precious family time together. We regularly incorporate DH’s family into our overseas vacations and pay for a house for everyone to stay together. We regularly host them for long stays at our house.

I promise I am not uptight. I am overly tolerant (to a fault) of how much they expect of us. But given that SIL has been dealing with health problems for over a year due to an accident and MIL went through a hospital stay and months of recovery a year ago due to an unexpected illness, I am not paranoid to worry that unexpected things could happen. A trip with their aunt and grandmother might be nice but is not necessary given that we plan special trips and experiences with them already.

I will propose another trip with them again this summer, but it has to include the parents.

Anonymous wrote:OP I was sort of with you until you said you wouldn't support your DH going without you. It's a great experience for your kids to be able to travel internationally and having family there makes it much cheaper. Why would you prevent this if there is a parent accompanying?

Same.

I think op like MANY DCUM posters have undiagnosed and untreated anxiety.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:During a Facetime call, my SIL tells DH that their mom would like to bring the kids to visit SIL who lives overseas in Europe over the summer. MIL was also on the call. My kids will be 8 and 10 during the summer. My MIL is 75 and divorced. My SIL (not married, no kids) has been recovering from a long term injury and uses crutches and has some mobility issues. My DH responded that they should talk to me about the kids schedule. I said no, the kids would not be going out of the country without us. They got quiet and changed the subject but I know the discussion is not over. They will try to talk to DH at a time when I am not present and beg him to try to persuade me to change my mind. If this persists, I want to respectfully say no and not create animosity.

First off, I am not comfortable having anyone take my kids out of the country. It has nothing to do with how much I trust my MIL. I wouldn't let anyone in my family take them either. My MIL is 75 and I would not risk a situation where she has a medical emergency and my kids are in another country with no one to bring them home. I don't want to risk a situation where one of the kids has a medical emergency and is in a hospital in another country and we are that far away from them.

I also think it is completely unreasonable to request to travel with young grandkids that far. SIL will be able to travel by summer. She can come to us to see the kids. There is no reason for MIL to take them to SIL. This is just something they want to do for the experience of it.

Putting aside any issues about who is paying for it, am I being unreasonable to say no?

1. It is not "completely unreasonable for them to make the request.
2. It is not unreasonable for you to say no.
3. Wanting to give them all an experience IS a reason, and not inherently a bad one. But you get to decide if "the experience" is worth the risk.

100%. Agree. I'd also have no problems with my kids going.

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Anonymous wrote:My ds visited my parents for multiple trips to Canada when he was age 5 and up. No issues with it, though that’s obviously a little closer. I think most moms today are way over anxious about this stuff sorry. All that said, it’s ultimately your decision and I think it’s reasonable to say no.

And I also think it’s wrong of you to be criticizing your MIL SIL and DH about them wanting to this. As another Pp said it’s from a place of kindness. Why think the worst about them?? Why wouldn’t your response be “guys, I love this idea and I love that you are thinking about how to strengthen your relationships with DS and connect him with his family and heritage. But to be honest I’m a little uncomfortable with him being that far away from home at this age, so sadly it’s a no for now. But can we reconsider in a couple years?”

+1. It’s kind of them to ask, and it’s reasonable for OP to say no.

FWIW, one of my aunts took me to visit another aunt in a foreign country when I was a pre-teen, and we had a blast. The government of the country was overthrown in a coup not too long after I visited, so it wasn’t exactly Canada, either. YMMV.

+1 If MiL is competent I think it’s a wonderful opportunity for OP’s kids. 8 and 10 aren’t infants. The parents of a good friend of mine takes her grandchildren on a special trip each summer starting when the oldest was 9 or 10. Grandkids and grandparents have an amazing time, my good friends get couple time alone and work time and all is well. I would do it if my parents were healthy enough.

This. The responses to this thread are bonkers. The language over the top. Elderly, disabled, squeezed in a tiny condo, coups, ambush, collusion…. You all seriously hate your MILs or you are all clinically anxious. Op has every right to say no, but the responses here demonstrate a way deeper pathology than just rational caution.

+4 As PP said, it's reasonable to say, "Thanks for the offer but could we reconsider this when the kids are a little older?"

+1. Seriously. As someone who didn’t travel overseas until I was in my 20s because my parents couldn’t afford it, I’m surprised very few people on this thread even acknowledge what a generous gift the MIL is offering and that these are the types of trips that are really special memories once the grandparents are no longer with us.

This isn’t relevant to OP - she and the kids go overseas almost every year.

If you refuse to acknowledge the difference between a trip where the parents go vs one where they don't attend, you're just being willfully obtuse. Spending time alone with beloved relatives, without parents around, are what lifetime memories are made out of.

I’m saying OP isn’t expressing gratitude for the offer of an overseas trip like PP, who didn’t go overseas until her 20s, because this isn’t an uncommon trip for HER family and she doesn’t want it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I was sort of with you until you said you wouldn't support your DH going without you. It's a great experience for your kids to be able to travel internationally and having family there makes it much cheaper. Why would you prevent this if there is a parent accompanying?

Ultimately, everyone's discomfort with this is because they are uptight MIL-haters. That's the only rational explanation for the sheer panic this raised in all the responses.

How absurd. I already posted that I wouldn’t be ok with it and I love my MIL! In fact we take her on vacations with us. But I wouldn’t be comfortable with her taking my kids at those ages overseas. As a teen I would.

Anonymous wrote:I spent a week with my (childless) aunt in her home country the summer I was 10. It was a wonderful experience (and this was before the days of cell phones so I didn't speak to my parents for the entire week), and I would gladly send my kids to stay alone with my parents or sisters if they were invited. But my family is very close (we visit regularly and my parents provide some childcare during visits, etc.) and also realistic about what we handle. If the country in question is of equal safety/security to the country you live in, I guess I'm not seeing why this is so different then visiting grandma in CA from MD?

It depends on the country and the support. Traveling internationally is a lot more complicated than traveling domestically. Dealing with passports, customs and international laws is significantly more complicated. In addition. there are other countries that have kidnapping laws in place, so you want to make sure that if your children are traveling as unaccompanied minors or traveling with a non-guardian relative (like the grandmother), that you have the appropriate notarized documentation that includes both parents signature that she has authorization to take these children across international borders. Traveling internationally, when you have separate sovereign nation laws, rules, regulations and documentation, can be more difficult, especially if you are not the parent or legal guardian of the child traveling. Many Americans are not good at checking all of the appropriate laws and regulations when traveling internationally, especially if they are traveling to multiple counties and can get into all sorts of legal issues.

For example, I know of a family who was doing something similar (an aunt was taking her nieces to visit a grandparent in Europe). They traveled to one country where they had a layover and then traveled to the destination country. They did not check and they had documentation issues in the layover country and the delay in customs there caused them to miss their transfer flight. All because they didn't have a notarized document signed by both parents that the aunt was authorized to take the kids internationally. And she was not the legal guardian. She had their passports, but not documentation that the parents had approved the travel, so this took hours to resolve. Different nations have different laws and you have to adhere to all of them. When you are the parent, you have certain legal rights. But extended family, like the aunt I knew and OP's MIL (grandmother) are not guaranteed parental rights in international scenarios and that can complicate things.

When you travel from MD to CA, you are traveling entirely within the borders of one nation (the US) and you are not subject to varying international law. There is less complication when traveling intranationally vs internationally.

Anonymous wrote:Are you the poster whose SIL needed to have surgery and wanted to stay in your home while she recuperated and couldn’t walk for weeks, along with your MIL? If so, it sounds like there is already a history of overstepping with those two. Just curious, how did that situation end?

Yikes, probably.

Pretty self centered behavior.

Anonymous wrote:OP I was sort of with you until you said you wouldn't support your DH going without you. It's a great experience for your kids to be able to travel internationally and having family there makes it much cheaper. Why would you prevent this if there is a parent accompanying?

Ultimately, everyone's discomfort with this is because they are uptight MIL-haters. That's the only rational explanation for the sheer panic this raised in all the responses.

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Anonymous wrote:My ds visited my parents for multiple trips to Canada when he was age 5 and up. No issues with it, though that’s obviously a little closer. I think most moms today are way over anxious about this stuff sorry. All that said, it’s ultimately your decision and I think it’s reasonable to say no.

And I also think it’s wrong of you to be criticizing your MIL SIL and DH about them wanting to this. As another Pp said it’s from a place of kindness. Why think the worst about them?? Why wouldn’t your response be “guys, I love this idea and I love that you are thinking about how to strengthen your relationships with DS and connect him with his family and heritage. But to be honest I’m a little uncomfortable with him being that far away from home at this age, so sadly it’s a no for now. But can we reconsider in a couple years?”

+1. It’s kind of them to ask, and it’s reasonable for OP to say no.

FWIW, one of my aunts took me to visit another aunt in a foreign country when I was a pre-teen, and we had a blast. The government of the country was overthrown in a coup not too long after I visited, so it wasn’t exactly Canada, either. YMMV.

+1 If MiL is competent I think it’s a wonderful opportunity for OP’s kids. 8 and 10 aren’t infants. The parents of a good friend of mine takes her grandchildren on a special trip each summer starting when the oldest was 9 or 10. Grandkids and grandparents have an amazing time, my good friends get couple time alone and work time and all is well. I would do it if my parents were healthy enough.

This. The responses to this thread are bonkers. The language over the top. Elderly, disabled, squeezed in a tiny condo, coups, ambush, collusion…. You all seriously hate your MILs or you are all clinically anxious. Op has every right to say no, but the responses here demonstrate a way deeper pathology than just rational caution.

+4 As PP said, it's reasonable to say, "Thanks for the offer but could we reconsider this when the kids are a little older?"

+1. Seriously. As someone who didn’t travel overseas until I was in my 20s because my parents couldn’t afford it, I’m surprised very few people on this thread even acknowledge what a generous gift the MIL is offering and that these are the types of trips that are really special memories once the grandparents are no longer with us.

This isn’t relevant to OP - she and the kids go overseas almost every year.

If you refuse to acknowledge the difference between a trip where the parents go vs one where they don't attend, you're just being willfully obtuse. Spending time alone with beloved relatives, without parents around, are what lifetime memories are made out of.

OP I was sort of with you until you said you wouldn't support your DH going without you. It's a great experience for your kids to be able to travel internationally and having family there makes it much cheaper. Why would you prevent this if there is a parent accompanying?

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Everyone involved is American. SIL just lives and works overseas. We take trips with them and the kids overseas almost once a year. DH is a pushover and gives in regularly to demands from MIL and SIL that overstep normal boundaries. The FaceTime call included the kids so no, it was not a private conversation. I don’t think they had bad intentions but they often request things from us and then act offended if we say no. Last year, SIL requested to stay with us, along with MIL for 3 weeks during the last month of school when i already had my own family coming for a week right after. When I suggested another time, it didn’t go over well.

I’m fine doing a trip with them over the summer as long as we can get some separate time alone as a family. I would be okay if the kids stayed with her for a weekend while my husband and I traveled somewhere nearby. I’m just not okay with parents being across the ocean. I wouldn’t want my husband to go without me either. They simply want the experience of being alone with the kids.

I appreciate the responses because this is what I needed to know I wasn’t being unreasonable.

I wouldn’t be ok with this either OP and I absolutely love my MIL!

I think there are two problems here - one your husband (obviously) and two, the fact that you are bothered by your in laws being upset with you. The difference I think between you and me is that if my in laws were mad at me, I would be confident enough in my own judgment and read of the situation to know that I am being unreasonable and to stand my ground without worry. I think you need to think about your own sensitivity here and why it bothers you so much that saying no “didn’t go over well.” This doesn’t mean you can’t be a kind, thoughtful, helpful, loving relative! You can be all of those things, and still let it roll off your back when your (reasonable, justified) actions upset someone else.

DP. This is an interesting and hits a lot of different issues in general. I think the issue is conditioning -- so many of us have been conditioned to nice girls who don't make waves and are well liked.

+1 with PP. I don’t have any issue being the “bad guy” with my ILs. DH and I are often on the same page and don’t throw each other under the bus but if it were something I felt strongly about like this, I would not GAF what they thought.

I spent a week with my (childless) aunt in her home country the summer I was 10. It was a wonderful experience (and this was before the days of cell phones so I didn't speak to my parents for the entire week), and I would gladly send my kids to stay alone with my parents or sisters if they were invited. But my family is very close (we visit regularly and my parents provide some childcare during visits, etc.) and also realistic about what we handle. If the country in question is of equal safety/security to the country you live in, I guess I'm not seeing why this is so different then visiting grandma in CA from MD?

Nope nope nope- my kids are 10 and 7 and I trust my MIL, who is 69, but still a big fat NOPE

I went overseas on a trip to England with my grandma, aunt, and younger brother when I was a kid. I was 11, brother was 8, grandma was in her 70s. We had a blast and I'll always remember the trip, and was thankful my parents agreed to let me and little brother go. My folks would not have been able to afford a family trip overseas, back then.

That said, my grandma was extremely active and did a ton of international solo travel after grandpa had passed away. My aunt was also a seasoned traveler and provided a solid travel companion. I would totally understand if my parents had not been comfortable with the idea of sending the kids overseas sans parents, and I think it's perfectly reasonable for OP to say no, in this case.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Everyone involved is American. SIL just lives and works overseas. We take trips with them and the kids overseas almost once a year. DH is a pushover and gives in regularly to demands from MIL and SIL that overstep normal boundaries. The FaceTime call included the kids so no, it was not a private conversation. I don’t think they had bad intentions but they often request things from us and then act offended if we say no. Last year, SIL requested to stay with us, along with MIL for 3 weeks during the last month of school when i already had my own family coming for a week right after. When I suggested another time, it didn’t go over well.

I’m fine doing a trip with them over the summer as long as we can get some separate time alone as a family. I would be okay if the kids stayed with her for a weekend while my husband and I traveled somewhere nearby. I’m just not okay with parents being across the ocean. I wouldn’t want my husband to go without me either. They simply want the experience of being alone with the kids.

I appreciate the responses because this is what I needed to know I wasn’t being unreasonable.

I wouldn’t be ok with this either OP and I absolutely love my MIL!

I think there are two problems here - one your husband (obviously) and two, the fact that you are bothered by your in laws being upset with you. The difference I think between you and me is that if my in laws were mad at me, I would be confident enough in my own judgment and read of the situation to know that I am being unreasonable and to stand my ground without worry. I think you need to think about your own sensitivity here and why it bothers you so much that saying no “didn’t go over well.” This doesn’t mean you can’t be a kind, thoughtful, helpful, loving relative! You can be all of those things, and still let it roll off your back when your (reasonable, justified) actions upset someone else.

DP. This is an interesting and hits a lot of different issues in general. I think the issue is conditioning -- so many of us have been conditioned to nice girls who don't make waves and are well liked.