Anonymous
12/21/2022 14:36
Subject: Re:is grade deflation really hurting college admissions this year?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Private parent in California. I know comparatively few kids even applying to the UCs any more from private school. It’s been a steep enough decline that apparently the UC admissions people are talking about it quietly as an issue. The reality is that UC does admissions based largely on straight-up GPA and they don’t have the resources to differentiate based on high school profile. Grade inflation is significantly rewarded. That cuts against the applicants from schools that have lower max GPAs.
They have and use resources to compare students against those from their own school.
I’m not sure where this persistent myth comes from, but it is simply not true. Also, it defies common sense. Of course admissions officers compare kids against kids from other high schools. It’s absurd to think they don’t.
I'm an admissions reader.
I don’t believe you, but even if so, I also did admissions for years, and I know you are pushing a myth that simply isn’t true.
I'm glad you have past experience. I'm doing admissions reading this year. I didn't say students are not compared across schools, but I can assure you that at our institution, students are compared to others from their own school.
what happens if there is only one kid applying from a high school?
or the following cohorts: (assume similar extracurriculars since all kids come from similarly resourced families).
NCS: 3.3, 3.2 ,3.4, 35 ACT, No APs, no honors available except in math classes, no APs available.
Visitation: 3.9, 3.85, 3.9 35 ACT 5 APs, honors available in math and language (plus AP in all core subjects)
BCC: 4.4, 4.3, 4.3 35 ACT 12 2 APs, honors available in all classes (plus AP in all core subjects)
Can a standard admissions officer looked at this in a nuanced manner?
Anonymous
12/21/2022 14:36
Subject: Re:is grade deflation really hurting college admissions this year?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I thought all of the colleges knew about and respected the rigor of the big 3. Or are publics getting more rigorous and now colleges believe they are comparing apples to apples?
The issue is that raw incoming GPA matters more than before for a lot of colleges because (a) ranking systems (which colleges still care deeply about even though they might moan about them publicly) use incoming GPA in the rankings and (b) the increase in test-optional and no tests considered at all means incoming GPA is much more heavily weighted. Then Covid changed grading substantially in a lot of public schools in particular, leading to these schools where over half the class has 4.0+ and if they even calculate valedictorian (and a lot don’t), there are 100+ of them. Plus, a lot of the public schools have removed any barriers to AP classes, so kids can easily take 10-12 AP classes. Public schools aren’t getting more rigorous (as someone with kids in both, I’d argue the opposite is true), but grade inflation and the impact of the grade inflation has gone up.
Rigor depends on what the student chooses. But, if one child starts Algebra in 6/7 and another in 8/9, one child obviously has a more rigorous education.
Anonymous
12/21/2022 14:33
Subject: Re:is grade deflation really hurting college admissions this year?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Private parent in California. I know comparatively few kids even applying to the UCs any more from private school. It’s been a steep enough decline that apparently the UC admissions people are talking about it quietly as an issue. The reality is that UC does admissions based largely on straight-up GPA and they don’t have the resources to differentiate based on high school profile. Grade inflation is significantly rewarded. That cuts against the applicants from schools that have lower max GPAs.
They have and use resources to compare students against those from their own school.
I’m not sure where this persistent myth comes from, but it is simply not true. Also, it defies common sense. Of course admissions officers compare kids against kids from other high schools. It’s absurd to think they don’t.
I'm an admissions reader.
I don’t believe you, but even if so, I also did admissions for years, and I know you are pushing a myth that simply isn’t true.
I'm glad you have past experience. I'm doing admissions reading this year. I didn't say students are not compared across schools, but I can assure you that at our institution, students are compared to others from their own school.
Sure. It’s obviously important to you to keep promoting what is transparently not true, so since it’s so important to you, just keep living your fantasies, my friend. The rest of us will stay in reality.
I don't know what to say. Maybe I should let my admissions lead know that we are not rating applications correctly?
Anonymous
12/21/2022 14:31
Subject: Re:is grade deflation really hurting college admissions this year?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I thought all of the colleges knew about and respected the rigor of the big 3. Or are publics getting more rigorous and now colleges believe they are comparing apples to apples?
I think the opposite is true but the GPA gap is so large now that it's hard for admissions officers to ignore.
Entire districts (i.e. DCPS) gave nothing less than a B in 19-20 and 20-21 years for any student who turned in a single assignment. So the current seniors had all As and Bs District-wide in their freshman and sophomore years. Plus all core classes (for every student) are "honors-for-all" so start with a GPA of 4.5. This years's senior class has hundreds of kids with GPAs between a 4.5 and a 5.0.
It's hard to compare a 3.2 against a 4.8 even if in theory the admissions team knows the 4.8 is inflated.
Your description of DCPS is inaccurate for 2020 and 2021. DCPS didn’t give out anything less than a 50 for students that didn’t turn anything in. For students that attempted to turn in assignment or take a test, they were given anything less than a 67. Not a B. Still many of Cs and Ds to be had in DCPS.
Anonymous
12/21/2022 14:24
Subject: Re:is grade deflation really hurting college admissions this year?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Private parent in California. I know comparatively few kids even applying to the UCs any more from private school. It’s been a steep enough decline that apparently the UC admissions people are talking about it quietly as an issue. The reality is that UC does admissions based largely on straight-up GPA and they don’t have the resources to differentiate based on high school profile. Grade inflation is significantly rewarded. That cuts against the applicants from schools that have lower max GPAs.
They have and use resources to compare students against those from their own school.
I’m not sure where this persistent myth comes from, but it is simply not true. Also, it defies common sense. Of course admissions officers compare kids against kids from other high schools. It’s absurd to think they don’t.
I'm an admissions reader.
I don’t believe you, but even if so, I also did admissions for years, and I know you are pushing a myth that simply isn’t true.
I'm glad you have past experience. I'm doing admissions reading this year. I didn't say students are not compared across schools, but I can assure you that at our institution, students are compared to others from their own school.
Sure. It’s obviously important to you to keep promoting what is transparently not true, so since it’s so important to you, just keep living your fantasies, my friend. The rest of us will stay in reality.
Anonymous
12/21/2022 14:16
Subject: Re:is grade deflation really hurting college admissions this year?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I thought all of the colleges knew about and respected the rigor of the big 3. Or are publics getting more rigorous and now colleges believe they are comparing apples to apples?
The issue is that raw incoming GPA matters more than before for a lot of colleges because (a) ranking systems (which colleges still care deeply about even though they might moan about them publicly) use incoming GPA in the rankings and (b) the increase in test-optional and no tests considered at all means incoming GPA is much more heavily weighted. Then Covid changed grading substantially in a lot of public schools in particular, leading to these schools where over half the class has 4.0+ and if they even calculate valedictorian (and a lot don’t), there are 100+ of them. Plus, a lot of the public schools have removed any barriers to AP classes, so kids can easily take 10-12 AP classes. Public schools aren’t getting more rigorous (as someone with kids in both, I’d argue the opposite is true), but grade inflation and the impact of the grade inflation has gone up.
Add the increased use of AI in weeding through the crazy increase in applicants. Much less of an issue at SLACS where they can and do take time with the full pool of applications, but the bigger the college, the more they need a computer to lighten the load before they really dig into the pile.
Anonymous
12/21/2022 14:10
Subject: Re:is grade deflation really hurting college admissions this year?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Private parent in California. I know comparatively few kids even applying to the UCs any more from private school. It’s been a steep enough decline that apparently the UC admissions people are talking about it quietly as an issue. The reality is that UC does admissions based largely on straight-up GPA and they don’t have the resources to differentiate based on high school profile. Grade inflation is significantly rewarded. That cuts against the applicants from schools that have lower max GPAs.
They have and use resources to compare students against those from their own school.
I’m not sure where this persistent myth comes from, but it is simply not true. Also, it defies common sense. Of course admissions officers compare kids against kids from other high schools. It’s absurd to think they don’t.
I'm an admissions reader.
I don’t believe you, but even if so, I also did admissions for years, and I know you are pushing a myth that simply isn’t true.
I'm glad you have past experience. I'm doing admissions reading this year. I didn't say students are not compared across schools, but I can assure you that at our institution, students are compared to others from their own school.
Anonymous
12/21/2022 13:57
Subject: Re:is grade deflation really hurting college admissions this year?
Anonymous wrote:I thought all of the colleges knew about and respected the rigor of the big 3. Or are publics getting more rigorous and now colleges believe they are comparing apples to apples?
The issue is that raw incoming GPA matters more than before for a lot of colleges because (a) ranking systems (which colleges still care deeply about even though they might moan about them publicly) use incoming GPA in the rankings and (b) the increase in test-optional and no tests considered at all means incoming GPA is much more heavily weighted. Then Covid changed grading substantially in a lot of public schools in particular, leading to these schools where over half the class has 4.0+ and if they even calculate valedictorian (and a lot don’t), there are 100+ of them. Plus, a lot of the public schools have removed any barriers to AP classes, so kids can easily take 10-12 AP classes. Public schools aren’t getting more rigorous (as someone with kids in both, I’d argue the opposite is true), but grade inflation and the impact of the grade inflation has gone up.
Anonymous
12/21/2022 13:57
Subject: Re:is grade deflation really hurting college admissions this year?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I thought all of the colleges knew about and respected the rigor of the big 3. Or are publics getting more rigorous and now colleges believe they are comparing apples to apples?
I think the opposite is true but the GPA gap is so large now that it's hard for admissions officers to ignore.
Entire districts (i.e. DCPS) gave nothing less than a B in 19-20 and 20-21 years for any student who turned in a single assignment. So the current seniors had all As and Bs District-wide in their freshman and sophomore years. Plus all core classes (for every student) are "honors-for-all" so start with a GPA of 4.5. This years's senior class has hundreds of kids with GPAs between a 4.5 and a 5.0.
It's hard to compare a 3.2 against a 4.8 even if in theory the admissions team knows the 4.8 is inflated.
Add to that no AP classes or honors. This is how these kids are getting rejected from Auburn or South Carolina with a 33 ACT. They don’t want your 3.2 averaged into their stats.
Anonymous
12/21/2022 13:52
Subject: is grade deflation really hurting college admissions this year?
I second starting a separate thread about NCS. I get a little whiplash hearing about it and I am trying to figure out school for my youngest child. On one hand, my older kid (at a boys’ school) tells me the girls are not happy at Cathedral and you all say college placement is abysmal. But other older threads said college placement last year at NCS was the best and the girls are so happy. It sort of feels like the experience is uneven or parents are using whatever narrative suits them at the moment. But the stories I hear about other girls schools are more consistent.
Anonymous
12/21/2022 13:48
Subject: Re:is grade deflation really hurting college admissions this year?
Anonymous wrote:I thought all of the colleges knew about and respected the rigor of the big 3. Or are publics getting more rigorous and now colleges believe they are comparing apples to apples?
I think the opposite is true but the GPA gap is so large now that it's hard for admissions officers to ignore.
Entire districts (i.e. DCPS) gave nothing less than a B in 19-20 and 20-21 years for any student who turned in a single assignment. So the current seniors had all As and Bs District-wide in their freshman and sophomore years. Plus all core classes (for every student) are "honors-for-all" so start with a GPA of 4.5. This years's senior class has hundreds of kids with GPAs between a 4.5 and a 5.0.
It's hard to compare a 3.2 against a 4.8 even if in theory the admissions team knows the 4.8 is inflated.
Anonymous
12/21/2022 13:37
Subject: Re:is grade deflation really hurting college admissions this year?
I thought all of the colleges knew about and respected the rigor of the big 3. Or are publics getting more rigorous and now colleges believe they are comparing apples to apples?
Anonymous
12/21/2022 13:19
Subject: Re:is grade deflation really hurting college admissions this year?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Which Big3 got only 5 ED admits? I am not seeing that on the instagram pages. I saw awesome results from many schools in this area, private and public.
I couldn’t find NCS and STA. I found the other private schools acceptances and they look pretty impressive.
Whitman, Churchill and BCC have many EDs in the top 20. The VA public ones are ok too.
Couldn’t find WJ, Wootton pages.
NCS. They are getting next to nobody in.
+2 If I told you the colleges where my NCS student was deferred and rejected from thus far you wouldn’t believe me. NCS is providing an excellent education to my daughter, but the fact that most girls have transcripts filled with Bs and an occasional C is killing their chances in this test optional world. The schools DO NOT CARE that NCS has phased out APs or that my DD has a 33 ACT. It has been a very rough 3 weeks.
So in other words, NCS issues true grades like they used to 20-30 years ago.
I’m not an NCS parent and my impression is that schools like NCS that don’t grade inflate are actually hurting the admissions chances of their kids to big public universities even though their kids are getting a very good education.
Students who are exceptionally good students but who graduate with a 3.9 instead of the 4.9 that their peers have are dinged in admissions to large public institutions in particular. It’s less harmful for admissions to the Ivies and SLACs.
Right, but virtually no one at NCS has a 3.9. Maybe every couple years you get a few. Girls with 3.7 are the ones applying to Ivies, Stanford, etc. I am talking about girls in the middle of the class. Like 3.0-3.4
Understood, and those kids are definitely hurt by the lack of grade inflation. I really don’t understand the people here who are claiming the true grading (versus inflation) doesn’t hurt. It definitely hurts.
The world has (unfortunately) changed to move to a world that rewards grade inflation. If most of the big public high schools graduate a significant portion of their kids with GPAs over 4.0 and 100-200 kids qualify to be valedictorian, I’m not sure how anyone argues that grade inflation isn’t the reality now. Schools that don’t grade inflate hurt their kids in admissions, although their kids individually get both excellent education and a good dose of reality in the process.
Anonymous
12/21/2022 13:12
Subject: Re:is grade deflation really hurting college admissions this year?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Private parent in California. I know comparatively few kids even applying to the UCs any more from private school. It’s been a steep enough decline that apparently the UC admissions people are talking about it quietly as an issue. The reality is that UC does admissions based largely on straight-up GPA and they don’t have the resources to differentiate based on high school profile. Grade inflation is significantly rewarded. That cuts against the applicants from schools that have lower max GPAs.
They have and use resources to compare students against those from their own school.
I’m not sure where this persistent myth comes from, but it is simply not true. Also, it defies common sense. Of course admissions officers compare kids against kids from other high schools. It’s absurd to think they don’t.
I think Adcom uses GC provided school profile sheet to figure out where the applicant fits. 3.7 Uwt GPA but top 10% is very much different than 3.7uwt GPA barely cutting top 50%. They also have test scores to normalize kids even further.
- dp
The profile sheets don’t help AdComs very much for the large public high schools, because when close to 1/2 of the graduating class has a GPA over 4.0, it’s impossible to distinguish. So the use and impact of profile sheets is falling away.
For schools that use incoming GPA for their own rankings (and you see this on the admissions websites of most schools), absolute number matters significantly. Also, universities like the UCs do not use tests, so they can’t differentiate on that.
Anonymous
12/21/2022 13:08
Subject: is grade deflation really hurting college admissions this year?
For NCS parents, insider tip- starting in 11th grade have your daughter take ALL her English classes at STA. My daughter’s consistent 87 grade in English suddenly became a 95. It really helps the GPA. First As ever at NCS were from STA!