Anonymous
12/19/2022 21:45
Subject: This is the first year in 13 years that I have completely dropped the rope with DH’s family
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Every argument on this board about sex and division of labor can be broken down into two factions: those who believe that, on avg, men and women have the exact same aptitude for emotional intelligence and executive functioning , and those who believe that, on avg, these skill sets differ noticably btwn the sexes.
Personally, I'm in the latter camp. That being said, my in-laws kind of irritate me and I have long since delegated direct communication and logistical planning to my DH. But the fact remains that if I didn't remind and actively encourage my DH to plan visits, it would never happen. Not bc he doesn't love them or want to see them and make sure they have a good relationship with our kids, but bc he just doesn't operate in a world where maintaining relations (outside of our marriage) is a priority. From talking to friends, I don't think he's that much of an outlier.
I think if you don't want to directly communicate with in laws and leave it to dh there can be good reasons for that, but if you take on literally every other aspect of your family's social lives except for in-law maintenance, you owe it to your kids and spouse to provide some reminders to your spouse to get it done
You completely missed the point. The arguments aren't about aptitudes but about gendered roles. Specifically, that women should be managing familial relationships.
As a DW and mother of peole with ADHD/Executive Functioning xhallenges, there are a zh!t ton of compensating techiques that can be employed to compensate for weaknesses IF the relationships are deemed important. EQ/EF are explanations, not excuses. It is unacceptable to delegate based on gender.
Agree 1 million %
Ok, but if one spouse is handling all aspects of family social life except the in-law maintenance, then they need to be honest about why that's the one thing they won't touch with a 10 ft pole. I agree with posters who say it's the kids who lose. If you wouldn't let your DH handle the rest of the family social calendar bc it would impact you and or the kids negatively, this shouldn't be treated any differently.
Do you not know what Google calendar is? THAT is the familt calendar. If my DH wants to do something with his family, all he needs to do is CHECK THE CALENDAR. He then needs to PUT it on the calendar and send me an invite.
Maintaing a calendar is a life skill that every single person needs to have. People with EF especially need it. If the can do it for work, they xan do it for family.
And the kids don't lose. They learn that people, including their fathers, will make an effort when they deem it worthy. If their paternal relatives wznt z relationship, they, too can make an effort. Another important lesson is to recognize the misogyny that makes women responsible for managing relationships simply because their female.
There's a big difference btwn scheduling a dentist appointment and maintaining relationships. What other relationships does DH handle for your family? Playdates? Sleepovers? Carpools? If he handles those things too, then those tasks are evenly distributed. If he doesn't, then it's odd to single out this single relationship. You know he doesn't do those things well, and you know he'll let the relationship with the inlaws slide. If you like the inlaws, you wouldn't let this happen bc that would negatively impact the kids and you. But if you dislike the inlaws, its a relief.
Anonymous
12/19/2022 21:40
Subject: Re:This is the first year in 13 years that I have completely dropped the rope with DH’s family
Kids are “impacted” by their finally seeing reality and knowing what the relationship dynamics really are. For me it is worse if one person manufactures a relationship that would not otherwise exist in that same way without the puppet master. Many a big family only gets together because 1 person insists and when that person stops insisting/is gone, they all happily go separate ways.
Anonymous
12/19/2022 21:37
Subject: This is the first year in 13 years that I have completely dropped the rope with DH’s family
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Every argument on this board about sex and division of labor can be broken down into two factions: those who believe that, on avg, men and women have the exact same aptitude for emotional intelligence and executive functioning , and those who believe that, on avg, these skill sets differ noticably btwn the sexes.
Personally, I'm in the latter camp. That being said, my in-laws kind of irritate me and I have long since delegated direct communication and logistical planning to my DH. But the fact remains that if I didn't remind and actively encourage my DH to plan visits, it would never happen. Not bc he doesn't love them or want to see them and make sure they have a good relationship with our kids, but bc he just doesn't operate in a world where maintaining relations (outside of our marriage) is a priority. From talking to friends, I don't think he's that much of an outlier.
I think if you don't want to directly communicate with in laws and leave it to dh there can be good reasons for that, but if you take on literally every other aspect of your family's social lives except for in-law maintenance, you owe it to your kids and spouse to provide some reminders to your spouse to get it done
You completely missed the point. The arguments aren't about aptitudes but about gendered roles. Specifically, that women should be managing familial relationships.
As a DW and mother of peole with ADHD/Executive Functioning xhallenges, there are a zh!t ton of compensating techiques that can be employed to compensate for weaknesses IF the relationships are deemed important. EQ/EF are explanations, not excuses. It is unacceptable to delegate based on gender.
Agree 1 million %
Ok, but if one spouse is handling all aspects of family social life except the in-law maintenance, then they need to be honest about why that's the one thing they won't touch with a 10 ft pole. I agree with posters who say it's the kids who lose. If you wouldn't let your DH handle the rest of the family social calendar bc it would impact you and or the kids negatively, this shouldn't be treated any differently.
Do you not know what Google calendar is? THAT is the familt calendar. If my DH wants to do something with his family, all he needs to do is CHECK THE CALENDAR. He then needs to PUT it on the calendar and send me an invite.
Maintaing a calendar is a life skill that every single person needs to have. People with EF especially need it. If the can do it for work, they xan do it for family.
And the kids don't lose. They learn that people, including their fathers, will make an effort when they deem it worthy. If their paternal relatives wznt z relationship, they, too can make an effort. Another important lesson is to recognize the misogyny that makes women responsible for managing relationships simply because their female.
Anonymous
12/19/2022 21:18
Subject: This is the first year in 13 years that I have completely dropped the rope with DH’s family
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Every argument on this board about sex and division of labor can be broken down into two factions: those who believe that, on avg, men and women have the exact same aptitude for emotional intelligence and executive functioning , and those who believe that, on avg, these skill sets differ noticably btwn the sexes.
Personally, I'm in the latter camp. That being said, my in-laws kind of irritate me and I have long since delegated direct communication and logistical planning to my DH. But the fact remains that if I didn't remind and actively encourage my DH to plan visits, it would never happen. Not bc he doesn't love them or want to see them and make sure they have a good relationship with our kids, but bc he just doesn't operate in a world where maintaining relations (outside of our marriage) is a priority. From talking to friends, I don't think he's that much of an outlier.
I think if you don't want to directly communicate with in laws and leave it to dh there can be good reasons for that, but if you take on literally every other aspect of your family's social lives except for in-law maintenance, you owe it to your kids and spouse to provide some reminders to your spouse to get it done
You completely missed the point. The arguments aren't about aptitudes but about gendered roles. Specifically, that women should be managing familial relationships.
As a DW and mother of peole with ADHD/Executive Functioning xhallenges, there are a zh!t ton of compensating techiques that can be employed to compensate for weaknesses IF the relationships are deemed important. EQ/EF are explanations, not excuses. It is unacceptable to delegate based on gender.
Agree 1 million %
Ok, but if one spouse is handling all aspects of family social life except the in-law maintenance, then they need to be honest about why that's the one thing they won't touch with a 10 ft pole. I agree with posters who say it's the kids who lose. If you wouldn't let your DH handle the rest of the family social calendar bc it would impact you and or the kids negatively, this shouldn't be treated any differently.
Anonymous
12/19/2022 21:11
Subject: This is the first year in 13 years that I have completely dropped the rope with DH’s family
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:After a horrific blow up last spring in which I was blamed and made the scapegoat. In the summer I said to him, no more. I don’t mind seeing them but you will do 100% of the hosting and need to be home for 100% of their visit- taking off work if necessary.
Therefore, for the holidays this year we are:
Not seeing or hosting them (he never planned it)
Not exchanging adult gifts (he decided he didn’t want to do it despite me saying that for years)
Also, he was in charge of giving them all the kids gift ideas as they want specific links to things to buy for the kids and want to chose from the options. He keeps complaining about this and it’s unclear if he’s done it as of today (I have provided these links the last 13 years).
I feel so free and happier than I have been in years! Why didn’t I do this earlier?!
I will one day advise my adult daughter- do not do the work for the husbands family, make him step up and do it. You cannot win. If you do it well, no one seems to care and you have just done a ton of work. If you mess up, you’ll be criticized. None of this is good for your marriage or yourself.
I have been married for 34 years, so take my opinions as you will. 55 years old. Adult kids and now grandkids. The advise you plan to give your daughter sucks. My husband's family IS my family. My family IS his family. To be honest, you sound kinda awful. The kind of behaviors you listed do not bode well for a long, happy marriage. Be sure to prepare for life as a single mother in case I'm right.
Puh-lease. I'm 57 and been married 27 years. How have you not yet learned that not everyone feels the same as you. YOU may consider your DH's family of origin your family. They may consider you their family. Not everyone feels that way. Not everyone feels they have to conform to "family's" expectations of how "family" should act.
I had no interest in conforming to my IL's idea of what their DIL should do. I didn't care if the other DILs conformed. I have my own family. If they have a problem with that, they can discuss it with their son. He chose me every single time. If he didn't, he didn't deserve me and I would have been better off without him. There are far, far worse things than being a single mother.
Anonymous
12/19/2022 21:08
Subject: This is the first year in 13 years that I have completely dropped the rope with DH’s family
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Every argument on this board about sex and division of labor can be broken down into two factions: those who believe that, on avg, men and women have the exact same aptitude for emotional intelligence and executive functioning , and those who believe that, on avg, these skill sets differ noticably btwn the sexes.
Personally, I'm in the latter camp. That being said, my in-laws kind of irritate me and I have long since delegated direct communication and logistical planning to my DH. But the fact remains that if I didn't remind and actively encourage my DH to plan visits, it would never happen. Not bc he doesn't love them or want to see them and make sure they have a good relationship with our kids, but bc he just doesn't operate in a world where maintaining relations (outside of our marriage) is a priority. From talking to friends, I don't think he's that much of an outlier.
I think if you don't want to directly communicate with in laws and leave it to dh there can be good reasons for that, but if you take on literally every other aspect of your family's social lives except for in-law maintenance, you owe it to your kids and spouse to provide some reminders to your spouse to get it done
You completely missed the point. The arguments aren't about aptitudes but about gendered roles. Specifically, that women should be managing familial relationships.
As a DW and mother of peole with ADHD/Executive Functioning xhallenges, there are a zh!t ton of compensating techiques that can be employed to compensate for weaknesses IF the relationships are deemed important. EQ/EF are explanations, not excuses. It is unacceptable to delegate based on gender.
Agree 1 million %
Anonymous
12/19/2022 21:08
Subject: This is the first year in 13 years that I have completely dropped the rope with DH’s family
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:After a horrific blow up last spring in which I was blamed and made the scapegoat. In the summer I said to him, no more. I don’t mind seeing them but you will do 100% of the hosting and need to be home for 100% of their visit- taking off work if necessary.
Therefore, for the holidays this year we are:
Not seeing or hosting them (he never planned it)
Not exchanging adult gifts (he decided he didn’t want to do it despite me saying that for years)
Also, he was in charge of giving them all the kids gift ideas as they want specific links to things to buy for the kids and want to chose from the options. He keeps complaining about this and it’s unclear if he’s done it as of today (I have provided these links the last 13 years).
I feel so free and happier than I have been in years! Why didn’t I do this earlier?!
I will one day advise my adult daughter- do not do the work for the husbands family, make him step up and do it. You cannot win. If you do it well, no one seems to care and you have just done a ton of work. If you mess up, you’ll be criticized. None of this is good for your marriage or yourself.
I have been married for 34 years, so take my opinions as you will. 55 years old. Adult kids and now grandkids. The advise you plan to give your daughter sucks. My husband's family IS my family. My family IS his family. To be honest, you sound kinda awful. The kind of behaviors you listed do not bode well for a long, happy marriage. Be sure to prepare for life as a single mother in case I'm right.
NP. LOL, no one wants the opinion of some old bird who got married at the age of 21. We have actual educations and lives and purpose beyond being family secretaries. You have no life beyond your husband/family; that’s your identity. No thanks.
Anonymous
12/19/2022 21:03
Subject: This is the first year in 13 years that I have completely dropped the rope with DH’s family
Anonymous wrote:Every argument on this board about sex and division of labor can be broken down into two factions: those who believe that, on avg, men and women have the exact same aptitude for emotional intelligence and executive functioning , and those who believe that, on avg, these skill sets differ noticably btwn the sexes.
Personally, I'm in the latter camp. That being said, my in-laws kind of irritate me and I have long since delegated direct communication and logistical planning to my DH. But the fact remains that if I didn't remind and actively encourage my DH to plan visits, it would never happen. Not bc he doesn't love them or want to see them and make sure they have a good relationship with our kids, but bc he just doesn't operate in a world where maintaining relations (outside of our marriage) is a priority. From talking to friends, I don't think he's that much of an outlier.
I think if you don't want to directly communicate with in laws and leave it to dh there can be good reasons for that, but if you take on literally every other aspect of your family's social lives except for in-law maintenance, you owe it to your kids and spouse to provide some reminders to your spouse to get it done
You completely missed the point. The arguments aren't about aptitudes but about gendered roles. Specifically, that women should be managing familial relationships.
As a DW and mother of peole with ADHD/Executive Functioning xhallenges, there are a zh!t ton of compensating techiques that can be employed to compensate for weaknesses IF the relationships are deemed important. EQ/EF are explanations, not excuses. It is unacceptable to delegate based on gender.
Anonymous
12/19/2022 20:55
Subject: This is the first year in 13 years that I have completely dropped the rope with DH’s family
Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.
In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.
Have you expressed this to your nephew?
Anonymous
12/19/2022 20:54
Subject: This is the first year in 13 years that I have completely dropped the rope with DH’s family
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.
In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.
That's on your nephew, not his wife.
You are absolutely correct. It’s my nephew who is primarily at fault here. But the reality is that he is working crazy hours and traveling constantly and has little time. His wife has much more flexibility to make these kinds of things happen. She is the stay at home. It is not her “fault”. But the net result is the same. We rarely see them. It’s easy to say the obvious things that she is not responsible. And she isn’t. But it’s the kids that miss out.
+ 10000
He is not "primarily" at fault. He is 100% at fault.
We are all busy. We do things that we care about and leave the rest. That's it.
+1
Stop pretending poor nephew is so busy. While he sits in a hotel room alone at night his wife is putting kids to bed.
+1
Grandmothers who had uninvolved/detached spouses want their DILs to have uninvolved/detached spouses.
Anonymous
12/19/2022 20:52
Subject: This is the first year in 13 years that I have completely dropped the rope with DH’s family
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.
In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.
That's on your nephew, not his wife.
You are absolutely correct. It’s my nephew who is primarily at fault here. But the reality is that he is working crazy hours and traveling constantly and has little time. His wife has much more flexibility to make these kinds of things happen. She is the stay at home. It is not her “fault”. But the net result is the same. We rarely see them. It’s easy to say the obvious things that she is not responsible. And she isn’t. But it’s the kids that miss out.
You are still blaming the niece? It is plain as day that your nephew does not care that his kids have no relationship with you and your family. He does not care.
If the nephew’s wife is SAH then yes the responsibility really should be hers. It’s sort of part of the deal. If he’s busting his buns to support her and the family she can reach out on his behalf.
Domestic labor IS STILL labor. She does work. She works PLENTY. Have you ever had a nanny, babysitter, housecleaner? Do you pay them? Yes. So just because a family is choosing to have one person DO THOSE THINGS so another person can work for money, it does not mean you have MORE TIME. Bc running a house and raising children is WORK.
See PP is either a troll or my MIL - who thinks all women should suffer as she did. GTFOH.
Anonymous
12/19/2022 20:51
Subject: This is the first year in 13 years that I have completely dropped the rope with DH’s family
I started to take over the Holiday buying and magic making for immediate and extended family at one point. I enjoy the holiday "stuff" but it quickly got overwhelming. And when it became clear it wasn't appreciated by DH's family -or DH, frankly- I gave it back. Just told him I wasn't doing it anymore.
The end. It gets done or not. When they ask about lists, plans, etc., I tell them DH will call them to work it out.
The end. It gets done or not. When they ask about lists, plans, etc., I tell them DH will call them to work it out.
Anonymous
12/19/2022 20:31
Subject: This is the first year in 13 years that I have completely dropped the rope with DH’s family
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.
In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.
That's on your nephew, not his wife.
You are absolutely correct. It’s my nephew who is primarily at fault here. But the reality is that he is working crazy hours and traveling constantly and has little time. His wife has much more flexibility to make these kinds of things happen. She is the stay at home. It is not her “fault”. But the net result is the same. We rarely see them. It’s easy to say the obvious things that she is not responsible. And she isn’t. But it’s the kids that miss out.
You are still blaming the niece? It is plain as day that your nephew does not care that his kids have no relationship with you and your family. He does not care.
If the nephew’s wife is SAH then yes the responsibility really should be hers. It’s sort of part of the deal. If he’s busting his buns to support her and the family she can reach out on his behalf.
Domestic labor IS STILL labor. She does work. She works PLENTY. Have you ever had a nanny, babysitter, housecleaner? Do you pay them? Yes. So just because a family is choosing to have one person DO THOSE THINGS so another person can work for money, it does not mean you have MORE TIME. Bc running a house and raising children is WORK.
Anonymous
12/19/2022 20:30
Subject: This is the first year in 13 years that I have completely dropped the rope with DH’s family
Every argument on this board about sex and division of labor can be broken down into two factions: those who believe that, on avg, men and women have the exact same aptitude for emotional intelligence and executive functioning , and those who believe that, on avg, these skill sets differ noticably btwn the sexes.
Personally, I'm in the latter camp. That being said, my in-laws kind of irritate me and I have long since delegated direct communication and logistical planning to my DH. But the fact remains that if I didn't remind and actively encourage my DH to plan visits, it would never happen. Not bc he doesn't love them or want to see them and make sure they have a good relationship with our kids, but bc he just doesn't operate in a world where maintaining relations (outside of our marriage) is a priority. From talking to friends, I don't think he's that much of an outlier.
I think if you don't want to directly communicate with in laws and leave it to dh there can be good reasons for that, but if you take on literally every other aspect of your family's social lives except for in-law maintenance, you owe it to your kids and spouse to provide some reminders to your spouse to get it done
Personally, I'm in the latter camp. That being said, my in-laws kind of irritate me and I have long since delegated direct communication and logistical planning to my DH. But the fact remains that if I didn't remind and actively encourage my DH to plan visits, it would never happen. Not bc he doesn't love them or want to see them and make sure they have a good relationship with our kids, but bc he just doesn't operate in a world where maintaining relations (outside of our marriage) is a priority. From talking to friends, I don't think he's that much of an outlier.
I think if you don't want to directly communicate with in laws and leave it to dh there can be good reasons for that, but if you take on literally every other aspect of your family's social lives except for in-law maintenance, you owe it to your kids and spouse to provide some reminders to your spouse to get it done
Anonymous
12/19/2022 20:27
Subject: This is the first year in 13 years that I have completely dropped the rope with DH’s family
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.
In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.
That's on your nephew, not his wife.
You are absolutely correct. It’s my nephew who is primarily at fault here. But the reality is that he is working crazy hours and traveling constantly and has little time. His wife has much more flexibility to make these kinds of things happen. She is the stay at home. It is not her “fault”. But the net result is the same. We rarely see them. It’s easy to say the obvious things that she is not responsible. And she isn’t. But it’s the kids that miss out.
He is not "primarily" at fault. He is 100% at fault.
We are all busy. We do things that we care about and leave the rest. That's it.
+1
Stop pretending poor nephew is so busy. While he sits in a hotel room alone at night his wife is putting kids to bed.
Maybe he's not alone.