Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Missionary "work" should be criminal. If you're providing *requested* humanitarian aid without ANY proselytizing, that's one thing. But "mission trips" are sickening and a form of violence, imho.

Religious freedom is not a given in many parts of the world. According to the Pew Research Center, more than 80% of the world's governments interfered with their citizens' religious worship in some way in 2019. Furthermore, although Christianity is the world's largest religion, Christians are in no way immune to persecution. For example, Islamic countries often view other religions as heretical, an affront to Allah, which is considered an extremely serious crime. Communist countries, by comparison, often outlaw all religion—which Karl Marx famously deemed the "opiate of the masses"—preferring that the government be the only authority guiding people's concept of fairness and one's role in society.

13 Countries Where Bibles Can Only Be Delivered by Illegal Covert Operations:

Afghanistan Mauritania Tajikistan
Iran North Korea Turkmenistan
Kazakhstan Saudi Arabia Uzbekistan
Kyrgyzstan Somalia Yemen
Maldives

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-where-christianity-is-illegal

pp, if you moved to one of those countries, you would be in good compan! What an illustrious group.

This list is WILD nonsense. I can't speak to every country on that list, but I can talk about Central Asia, where Christianity is certainly not "illegal." There are many Orthdox churches throughout the region, including ones built relatively recently.

Pew publishes wild nonsense? Who knew? The atheist here who is obsessed with Pew will be disappointed to hear that.

Here's your mistake. Yes, Muslims count Christians and Jews as "People of the Book" so they can't explicitly make these religions illegal. But as a non-Christian, do you have any idea what it's like to actually worship in those countries? Do you disagree with the premise that Christians have to worship covertly in Saudi Arabia and the like?

This is such a good example of how propagandists use legitimate sources like Pew to launder their lies, trusting that no one is going to go through 50 pages of annexes to figure out that they are spouting untruths. If you click through to the Pew report itself, none of what the "Population Review" has claimed is substantiated.

The PP claims, for example, that Christianity is illegal in Central Asia, and that Bibles can only be delivered through illicit means. However, if you look at Appendix E of the Pew Report, they lay out the criteria they used in thier report and whether or not Bibles can be delivered isn't on the list. The only mention of religious literature is GRI Q.8, which asks, "Is religious literature or broadcasting limited by any level of government?"

Turns out a lot of countries are on that list, including the United States, where it is definitely not illegal to distribute the Bible.

So, you have a real source (the Pew study) cited by a disseminator of disinformation (Population Review) and then spread out in the world by PP, either knowingly or unknowingly.

That's disinformation in a nutshell.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't make a general statement about all missionaries. I have lived overseas in areas with heavy missionary work, and different groups really vary a lot from each other. Some are hell bent on eliminating indigenous culture, and others seem more hell bent on becoming like them. It's really a huge and diverse group of people.

It seems like outlawing missionaries is a good idea. Why should indigenous groups have to wade through it all?

I agree with this. All outreach to indigenous groups should be stopped. They don't need our missionaries or NGOs corrupting the Noble Savage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't make a general statement about all missionaries. I have lived overseas in areas with heavy missionary work, and different groups really vary a lot from each other. Some are hell bent on eliminating indigenous culture, and others seem more hell bent on becoming like them. It's really a huge and diverse group of people.

It seems like outlawing missionaries is a good idea. Why should indigenous groups have to wade through it all?

You've spent a busy 6:30 am bumping old threads about missionaries and Mormons. Troll much?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're a Christian missionary and you're prioritizing your culture over Jesus Christ, you should get out of the field.

Hudson Taylor, the 19th century Chinese missionary, was sensitive to Chinese culture, learned several dialects of Chinese and even wore Chinese native clothing. Modern missionaries could learn from that.

Some missionaries in India dress in saffron robes with red tilak on their foreheads, which are usually worn by Hindu and Jain priests and monks, and add architecture to churches that mimic traditional temple architecture. They use these techniques to deceive and convert.

first pp: missionaries should embrace local cultures and customs!

second pp: missionaries embracing local customs and cultures are deceptive and evil!

Which is it?

The pp gave an example of it being used to deceive people. That’s indefensible.

Anonymous wrote:You can't make a general statement about all missionaries. I have lived overseas in areas with heavy missionary work, and different groups really vary a lot from each other. Some are hell bent on eliminating indigenous culture, and others seem more hell bent on becoming like them. It's really a huge and diverse group of people.

It seems like outlawing missionaries is a good idea. Why should indigenous groups have to wade through it all?

You can't make a general statement about all missionaries. I have lived overseas in areas with heavy missionary work, and different groups really vary a lot from each other. Some are hell bent on eliminating indigenous culture, and others seem more hell bent on becoming like them. It's really a huge and diverse group of people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Missionary "work" should be criminal. If you're providing *requested* humanitarian aid without ANY proselytizing, that's one thing. But "mission trips" are sickening and a form of violence, imho.

Religious freedom is not a given in many parts of the world. According to the Pew Research Center, more than 80% of the world's governments interfered with their citizens' religious worship in some way in 2019. Furthermore, although Christianity is the world's largest religion, Christians are in no way immune to persecution. For example, Islamic countries often view other religions as heretical, an affront to Allah, which is considered an extremely serious crime. Communist countries, by comparison, often outlaw all religion—which Karl Marx famously deemed the "opiate of the masses"—preferring that the government be the only authority guiding people's concept of fairness and one's role in society.

13 Countries Where Bibles Can Only Be Delivered by Illegal Covert Operations:

Afghanistan Mauritania Tajikistan
Iran North Korea Turkmenistan
Kazakhstan Saudi Arabia Uzbekistan
Kyrgyzstan Somalia Yemen
Maldives

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-where-christianity-is-illegal

pp, if you moved to one of those countries, you would be in good compan! What an illustrious group.

This list is WILD nonsense. I can't speak to every country on that list, but I can talk about Central Asia, where Christianity is certainly not "illegal." There are many Orthdox churches throughout the region, including ones built relatively recently.

Pew publishes wild nonsense? Who knew? The atheist here who is obsessed with Pew will be disappointed to hear that.

Here's your mistake. Yes, Muslims count Christians and Jews as "People of the Book" so they can't explicitly make these religions illegal. But as a non-Christian, do you have any idea what it's like to actually worship in those countries? Do you disagree with the premise that Christians have to worship covertly in Saudi Arabia and the like?

Religious people working as missionaries differs from religious people proselytizing.

pp uses every action undertaken by religious people as “proselytizing.” That’s not true.

Anonymous wrote:Believe it or not, UN aid workers and foreign aid do bad things
There has been reports that refugee camp women have to trade sexual favors for them
Health clinics that receive US aid are not allowed to even refer a patient to another place to get an abortion
Most aid goes to pockets of corrupt politicians, very little actually benefits the people intendef

I'm a foreign aid worker (not the same person from earlier in the discussion) and the sector ABSOLUTELY has massive issues, although I'll note that the most profound issues are with the military-adjacent folks, not typically the humanitarian relief folks. For those terrible things done by aid workers, though, there are systems and accountability. I have to go through HOURS of safeguarding training every year, including very specific protocols for speaking to minors, to dealing with displaced people, etc. Those trainings are necessary because the sector is trying to improve.

Until religious aid workers do the same, specifically on the evangelical side, it is fair to be wary of them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Missionary "work" should be criminal. If you're providing *requested* humanitarian aid without ANY proselytizing, that's one thing. But "mission trips" are sickening and a form of violence, imho.

Religious freedom is not a given in many parts of the world. According to the Pew Research Center, more than 80% of the world's governments interfered with their citizens' religious worship in some way in 2019. Furthermore, although Christianity is the world's largest religion, Christians are in no way immune to persecution. For example, Islamic countries often view other religions as heretical, an affront to Allah, which is considered an extremely serious crime. Communist countries, by comparison, often outlaw all religion—which Karl Marx famously deemed the "opiate of the masses"—preferring that the government be the only authority guiding people's concept of fairness and one's role in society.

13 Countries Where Bibles Can Only Be Delivered by Illegal Covert Operations:

Afghanistan Mauritania Tajikistan
Iran North Korea Turkmenistan
Kazakhstan Saudi Arabia Uzbekistan
Kyrgyzstan Somalia Yemen
Maldives

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-where-christianity-is-illegal

pp, if you moved to one of those countries, you would be in good compan! What an illustrious group.

This list is WILD nonsense. I can't speak to every country on that list, but I can talk about Central Asia, where Christianity is certainly not "illegal." There are many Orthdox churches throughout the region, including ones built relatively recently.