Anonymous
Post 10/05/2022 19:48     Subject: VRBO won't refund Sanibel stay for next week
OP the rental contract would have come directly from the property manager/owner, not VRBO. If they didn't have you sign a rental agreement apart from just the booking, then you might have some success with your CC.

But if you signed something and just forgot that you did, and it mentions Force Majeure, you are likely out of luck.
Anonymous
Post 10/05/2022 19:44     Subject: VRBO won't refund Sanibel stay for next week
OP, here is a map of the structures on Sanibel with degree of damage noted.
https://sanibel.maps.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/2033aa6f46444cfb85bd1f26ac6bcedb
Anonymous
Post 10/05/2022 19:42     Subject: VRBO won't refund Sanibel stay for next week
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/forcemajeure.asp#:~:text=Force%20majeure%20is%20a%20French,actions%2C%20such%20as%20armed%20conflict.

This was heavily discussed at the onset of the pandemic and business owners with force majeure clauses then didn't have to refund either. Many did, but the law was on their side and they just decided to be nice.
Anonymous
Post 10/05/2022 19:40     Subject: VRBO won't refund Sanibel stay for next week
Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone being so nasty to OP? If she hadn’t tried to cancel first, this would be a non-issue. There is no contract in the universe that allows the owner to keep $$ in the event they cannot provide the accommodations. Also, to all the smug posters saying only stay at hotels: (1) don’t you like multiple bedrooms with kids??? (2) hotels you would actually want to stay in on Sanibel are not that plentiful.

Let them fail to perform and dispute with credit card.



Not true, beach rentals due this all the time. But they state it explictly. Force Majeure clauses (bascially Act of God clauses) are totally legal as long as they are spelled out. It totally depends what OP's rental agreement says.
Anonymous
Post 10/05/2022 19:34     Subject: VRBO won't refund Sanibel stay for next week
Why is everyone being so nasty to OP? If she hadn’t tried to cancel first, this would be a non-issue. There is no contract in the universe that allows the owner to keep $$ in the event they cannot provide the accommodations. Also, to all the smug posters saying only stay at hotels: (1) don’t you like multiple bedrooms with kids??? (2) hotels you would actually want to stay in on Sanibel are not that plentiful.

Let them fail to perform and dispute with credit card.

Anonymous
Post 10/05/2022 19:18     Subject: VRBO won't refund Sanibel stay for next week
This has been true forever and with “real” property mangers. We had an OBX rental 10 or so years ago and we lost 3 days of our rental due to a mandatory evacuation order due to a hurricane. Because we decline to get hurricane/trip insurance, we were just out the money.

I’m guessing your contract carves out weather/acts of God as not their problem.
Anonymous
Post 10/05/2022 19:04     Subject: VRBO won't refund Sanibel stay for next week
This why we stay in hotels instead of bothering with these shenanigans.
Anonymous
Post 10/05/2022 18:59     Subject: VRBO won't refund Sanibel stay for next week
Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I can't find any info on the condition of the development I was going to stay in to judge its condition after Ian but I did find this video of a neighboring condo (~250 yards down the beach from my booking, which was also beachfront):

https://www.reddit.com/r/Sanibel/comments/xtvlde/footage_of_sanibel_siesta/

As to the contract, I can't even find an actual legal contract on VRBO for my booking. Does anyone know where on the website it is? All I see are the "cancellation policies" which is the standard "60 day policy":

- 100% refund of amount paid if you cancel at least 60 days before check-in
- No refund if you cancel less than 60 days before check-in

Where is the actual rental contract? I don't have it in my email from when I made the booking either.

Even if I go to make a new booking next year, at no point in the checkout process do I see a link to the actual contract (obviously I am not finalizing the checkout process).

I can find the general VRBO terms and conditions, but they relate to the VRBO platform

and have nothing to do with the actual rental contract itself: https://www.vrbo.com/legal/terms-and-conditions


Don’t cancel.

You have not answered whether you have reached out to the owner? Once the date has past and they cannot deliver the house, then you can make the claim for non-performance. But it’s premature, unless the owner voluntarily cancels the reservation and returns your money.

VRBO isn’t going to help you, because then they lose money.

And the poster who is being so difficult, just stop. You’re twisting yourself into knots to reason as to how and why OP should be able to go forward with this Sanibel rental. It’s so dumb. The island isn’t inhabitable. The government isn’t allowing vacationers. Go put on your tin foil hat and spin theories in something else. Let’s actually try and be helpful here.
Anonymous
Post 10/05/2022 18:06     Subject: VRBO won't refund Sanibel stay for next week
OP here.

I can't find any info on the condition of the development I was going to stay in to judge its condition after Ian but I did find this video of a neighboring condo (~250 yards down the beach from my booking, which was also beachfront):

https://www.reddit.com/r/Sanibel/comments/xtvlde/footage_of_sanibel_siesta/

As to the contract, I can't even find an actual legal contract on VRBO for my booking. Does anyone know where on the website it is? All I see are the "cancellation policies" which is the standard "60 day policy":

- 100% refund of amount paid if you cancel at least 60 days before check-in
- No refund if you cancel less than 60 days before check-in

Where is the actual rental contract? I don't have it in my email from when I made the booking either.

Even if I go to make a new booking next year, at no point in the checkout process do I see a link to the actual contract (obviously I am not finalizing the checkout process).

I can find the general VRBO terms and conditions, but they relate to the VRBO platform and have nothing to do with the actual rental contract itself: https://www.vrbo.com/legal/terms-and-conditions
Anonymous
Post 10/05/2022 18:02     Subject: VRBO won't refund Sanibel stay for next week
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:VRBO is notorious for its terrible customer service. They want to put everything on the owners and provide little to no assistance. At the beginning of covid I had 2 friends who had to cancel reservations because of lockdown and the owners refused to refund the money. VRBO said it wasn't their problem.


To me this is a different situation. The house was there and available, but outside forces (pandemic) intervened and the renters cancelled.

In this scenario OP is presuming (rightly so) that the owner does not have a rentable property available as advertised. If there is no power, it is not an a/c property. If there is no running water it isn't a 2BA house with shower, toilet, dishwasher, etc. Heck, it may have foundation damage and not even be habitable. OP paid for a good that the owner almost certainly can't deliver.


Unless the contract says otherwise. We can speculate all we want but the key Q is what did OP promise?


Seems odd that a contract would force a renter to pay to rent a destroyed house on an unreachable island when they signed a contract for a fully functioning house with water, sewer, and electricity connected to the mainland with a bridge.


Well then, I would advise you to start reading the fine print in documents you sign. What did the contract they signed say? Is there a force majeure clause? What circumstances does it cover (hurricane in Florida in the fall, perhaps?) How does it allocate risk?

It’s entirely possible the present situation is not covered in the contract. We don’t know. OP has not been back.


Let’s put aside the hurricane for the moment- if a house does not have electricity and running water as advertised, isn’t that a breach of contract? Does it really beee to be spelled out in the fine print that the renter is not on the hook for the cost when the owner can’t provide the basic services?

I had a rental a few years ago where a water pipe burst and the repairs were t going to be finished in time. The owner was apologetic and refunded us. Tgis just seems like common sense.
Anonymous
Post 10/05/2022 17:51     Subject: VRBO won't refund Sanibel stay for next week
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:VRBO is notorious for its terrible customer service. They want to put everything on the owners and provide little to no assistance. At the beginning of covid I had 2 friends who had to cancel reservations because of lockdown and the owners refused to refund the money. VRBO said it wasn't their problem.


To me this is a different situation. The house was there and available, but outside forces (pandemic) intervened and the renters cancelled.

In this scenario OP is presuming (rightly so) that the owner does not have a rentable property available as advertised. If there is no power, it is not an a/c property. If there is no running water it isn't a 2BA house with shower, toilet, dishwasher, etc. Heck, it may have foundation damage and not even be habitable. OP paid for a good that the owner almost certainly can't deliver.


Unless the contract says otherwise. We can speculate all we want but the key Q is what did OP promise?


Seems odd that a contract would force a renter to pay to rent a destroyed house on an unreachable island when they signed a contract for a fully functioning house with water, sewer, and electricity connected to the mainland with a bridge.


Well then, I would advise you to start reading the fine print in documents you sign. What did the contract they signed say? Is there a force majeure clause? What circumstances does it cover (hurricane in Florida in the fall, perhaps?) How does it allocate risk?

It’s entirely possible the present situation is not covered in the contract. We don’t know. OP has not been back.
Anonymous
Post 10/05/2022 17:50     Subject: VRBO won't refund Sanibel stay for next week
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:VRBO is notorious for its terrible customer service. They want to put everything on the owners and provide little to no assistance. At the beginning of covid I had 2 friends who had to cancel reservations because of lockdown and the owners refused to refund the money. VRBO said it wasn't their problem.


To me this is a different situation. The house was there and available, but outside forces (pandemic) intervened and the renters cancelled.

In this scenario OP is presuming (rightly so) that the owner does not have a rentable property available as advertised. If there is no power, it is not an a/c property. If there is no running water it isn't a 2BA house with shower, toilet, dishwasher, etc. Heck, it may have foundation damage and not even be habitable. OP paid for a good that the owner almost certainly can't deliver.


Unless the contract says otherwise. We can speculate all we want but the key Q is what did OP promise?


Seems odd that a contract would force a renter to pay to rent a destroyed house on an unreachable island when they signed a contract for a fully functioning house with water, sewer, and electricity connected to the mainland with a bridge.


Not everything on Sanibel was destroyed. From CNN:

“Dan and Tony Tabor were lucky. The couple returned to their Sanibel home prepared for the worst, with water, bleach and drywall cutters in tow to begin the rebuilding process.

Instead, they found it practically untouched by the storm, with the screens on their porch still in place and plants left outside still upright. If they wanted to, they said, they could spend tonight in the home.”

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/10/05/us/hurricane-ian-florida-recovery-wednesday/index.html


Maybe OP can stay with them. Seems like an excellent time to swim to Sanibel.
Anonymous
Post 10/05/2022 17:47     Subject: VRBO won't refund Sanibel stay for next week
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:VRBO is notorious for its terrible customer service. They want to put everything on the owners and provide little to no assistance. At the beginning of covid I had 2 friends who had to cancel reservations because of lockdown and the owners refused to refund the money. VRBO said it wasn't their problem.


To me this is a different situation. The house was there and available, but outside forces (pandemic) intervened and the renters cancelled.

In this scenario OP is presuming (rightly so) that the owner does not have a rentable property available as advertised. If there is no power, it is not an a/c property. If there is no running water it isn't a 2BA house with shower, toilet, dishwasher, etc. Heck, it may have foundation damage and not even be habitable. OP paid for a good that the owner almost certainly can't deliver.


Unless the contract says otherwise. We can speculate all we want but the key Q is what did OP promise?


Seems odd that a contract would force a renter to pay to rent a destroyed house on an unreachable island when they signed a contract for a fully functioning house with water, sewer, and electricity connected to the mainland with a bridge.


Not everything on Sanibel was destroyed. From CNN:

“Dan and Tony Tabor were lucky. The couple returned to their Sanibel home prepared for the worst, with water, bleach and drywall cutters in tow to begin the rebuilding process.

Instead, they found it practically untouched by the storm, with the screens on their porch still in place and plants left outside still upright. If they wanted to, they said, they could spend tonight in the home.”

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/10/05/us/hurricane-ian-florida-recovery-wednesday/index.html
Anonymous
Post 10/05/2022 17:45     Subject: VRBO won't refund Sanibel stay for next week
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:VRBO is notorious for its terrible customer service. They want to put everything on the owners and provide little to no assistance. At the beginning of covid I had 2 friends who had to cancel reservations because of lockdown and the owners refused to refund the money. VRBO said it wasn't their problem.


To me this is a different situation. The house was there and available, but outside forces (pandemic) intervened and the renters cancelled.

In this scenario OP is presuming (rightly so) that the owner does not have a rentable property available as advertised. If there is no power, it is not an a/c property. If there is no running water it isn't a 2BA house with shower, toilet, dishwasher, etc. Heck, it may have foundation damage and not even be habitable. OP paid for a good that the owner almost certainly can't deliver.


Unless the contract says otherwise. We can speculate all we want but the key Q is what did OP promise?


Seems odd that a contract would force a renter to pay to rent a destroyed house on an unreachable island when they signed a contract for a fully functioning house with water, sewer, and electricity connected to the mainland with a bridge.


DP. You have no idea if the place OP rented was destroyed.
Anonymous
Post 10/05/2022 17:30     Subject: VRBO won't refund Sanibel stay for next week
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:VRBO is notorious for its terrible customer service. They want to put everything on the owners and provide little to no assistance. At the beginning of covid I had 2 friends who had to cancel reservations because of lockdown and the owners refused to refund the money. VRBO said it wasn't their problem.


To me this is a different situation. The house was there and available, but outside forces (pandemic) intervened and the renters cancelled.

In this scenario OP is presuming (rightly so) that the owner does not have a rentable property available as advertised. If there is no power, it is not an a/c property. If there is no running water it isn't a 2BA house with shower, toilet, dishwasher, etc. Heck, it may have foundation damage and not even be habitable. OP paid for a good that the owner almost certainly can't deliver.


Unless the contract says otherwise. We can speculate all we want but the key Q is what did OP promise?


Seems odd that a contract would force a renter to pay to rent a destroyed house on an unreachable island when they signed a contract for a fully functioning house with water, sewer, and electricity connected to the mainland with a bridge.