I have taught undergraduates at both universities in a STEM field. UVA undergrads are better quality, class sizes are also smaller.

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Anonymous wrote:Public Universities With Most Graduate Schools and Specialties Ranked in the Top 10 by USNWR

Rank University 2023
1 University of California, Berkeley 122
2 University of Michigan 118
3 University of California, Los Angeles 61
4 The University of Texas at Austin 55
5 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 41
5 University of Wisconsin 41
7 University of Washington 40
7 University of Illinois 40
9 Indiana University 26
10 Ohio State University 22
10 Pennsylvania State University 22
12 Georgia Institute of Technology 20
12 University of Minnesota 20
14 University of Virginia 17
15 Purdue University 16

Talk about a meaningless ranking for someone considering undergraduate work

Hardly meaningless. It just proves, once again, that Berkeley and Michigan are a cut above the rest of the nation’s publics.

Overall perhaps, but I think this was posted to show UT is in a similar category to UCLA. I agree that graduate programs are not an indicator of quality of the undergraduate program, though.

Perhaps UCLA is a bit over ranked?

UCLA benefits in USNWR ranking criteria from having high resource ratings for a public. But this all really comes from its medical school, which doesn't have a single undergraduate enrolled in it and has no real benefit to the undergraduate program in my view. Berkeley does not have a medical school and is ranked considerably lower in resources. If these UCLA resources are really a benefit at the undergraduate level, it certainly isn't apparent. UCLA ranks low even for a public in the Niche ratings of professor availability, interest, etc., and ease of getting required classes. It is actually slightly lower than Berkeley in these ratings, which doesn't make sense if UCLA really has all these additional resources. Both are relatively low in these ratings despite their high rankings in USNWR. Does having a medical school help pre-med students? UCLA's published pre-med medical school admission percentages are only slightly above the national average and slightly below Berkeley. Neither one has what could be termed a high rate.

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Anonymous wrote:Public Universities With Most Graduate Schools and Specialties Ranked in the Top 10 by USNWR

Rank University 2023
1 University of California, Berkeley 122
2 University of Michigan 118
3 University of California, Los Angeles 61
4 The University of Texas at Austin 55
5 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 41
5 University of Wisconsin 41
7 University of Washington 40
7 University of Illinois 40
9 Indiana University 26
10 Ohio State University 22
10 Pennsylvania State University 22
12 Georgia Institute of Technology 20
12 University of Minnesota 20
14 University of Virginia 17
15 Purdue University 16

Talk about a meaningless ranking for someone considering undergraduate work

Hardly meaningless. It just proves, once again, that Berkeley and Michigan are a cut above the rest of the nation’s publics.

Overall perhaps, but I think this was posted to show UT is in a similar category to UCLA. I agree that graduate programs are not an indicator of quality of the undergraduate program, though.

Graduate programs are definitely an indicator for the academic quality and rigor of the undergraduate program. They aren't an indicator for the teaching/instruction quality though.

Many colleges with no graduate programs have better undergraduate academic quality and rigor than those that do. So I don't agree with your claim.

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Anonymous wrote:Public Universities With Most Graduate Schools and Specialties Ranked in the Top 10 by USNWR

Rank University 2023
1 University of California, Berkeley 122
2 University of Michigan 118
3 University of California, Los Angeles 61
4 The University of Texas at Austin 55
5 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 41
5 University of Wisconsin 41
7 University of Washington 40
7 University of Illinois 40
9 Indiana University 26
10 Ohio State University 22
10 Pennsylvania State University 22
12 Georgia Institute of Technology 20
12 University of Minnesota 20
14 University of Virginia 17
15 Purdue University 16

Talk about a meaningless ranking for someone considering undergraduate work

Hardly meaningless. It just proves, once again, that Berkeley and Michigan are a cut above the rest of the nation’s publics.

Overall perhaps, but I think this was posted to show UT is in a similar category to UCLA. I agree that graduate programs are not an indicator of quality of the undergraduate program, though.

Graduate programs are definitely an indicator for the academic quality and rigor of the undergraduate program. They aren't an indicator for the teaching/instruction quality though.

Michigan is ranked number 16 for teaching quality of its undergraduate students by USNWR.

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Anonymous wrote:Public Universities With Most Graduate Schools and Specialties Ranked in the Top 10 by USNWR

Rank University 2023
1 University of California, Berkeley 122
2 University of Michigan 118
3 University of California, Los Angeles 61
4 The University of Texas at Austin 55
5 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 41
5 University of Wisconsin 41
7 University of Washington 40
7 University of Illinois 40
9 Indiana University 26
10 Ohio State University 22
10 Pennsylvania State University 22
12 Georgia Institute of Technology 20
12 University of Minnesota 20
14 University of Virginia 17
15 Purdue University 16

Talk about a meaningless ranking for someone considering undergraduate work

Hardly meaningless. It just proves, once again, that Berkeley and Michigan are a cut above the rest of the nation’s publics.

Overall perhaps, but I think this was posted to show UT is in a similar category to UCLA. I agree that graduate programs are not an indicator of quality of the undergraduate program, though.

Perhaps UCLA is a bit over ranked?

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Anonymous wrote:Public Universities With Most Graduate Schools and Specialties Ranked in the Top 10 by USNWR

Rank University 2023
1 University of California, Berkeley 122
2 University of Michigan 118
3 University of California, Los Angeles 61
4 The University of Texas at Austin 55
5 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 41
5 University of Wisconsin 41
7 University of Washington 40
7 University of Illinois 40
9 Indiana University 26
10 Ohio State University 22
10 Pennsylvania State University 22
12 Georgia Institute of Technology 20
12 University of Minnesota 20
14 University of Virginia 17
15 Purdue University 16

Talk about a meaningless ranking for someone considering undergraduate work

Hardly meaningless. It just proves, once again, that Berkeley and Michigan are a cut above the rest of the nation’s publics.

Overall perhaps, but I think this was posted to show UT is in a similar category to UCLA. I agree that graduate programs are not an indicator of quality of the undergraduate program, though.

Graduate programs are definitely an indicator for the academic quality and rigor of the undergraduate program. They aren't an indicator for the teaching/instruction quality though.

UT grad and current Austinite here .It has changed since I was there so much. UT is a very urban environment and it affects everything about being a student there.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Public Universities With Most Graduate Schools and Specialties Ranked in the Top 10 by USNWR

Rank University 2023
1 University of California, Berkeley 122
2 University of Michigan 118
3 University of California, Los Angeles 61
4 The University of Texas at Austin 55
5 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 41
5 University of Wisconsin 41
7 University of Washington 40
7 University of Illinois 40
9 Indiana University 26
10 Ohio State University 22
10 Pennsylvania State University 22
12 Georgia Institute of Technology 20
12 University of Minnesota 20
14 University of Virginia 17
15 Purdue University 16

Talk about a meaningless ranking for someone considering undergraduate work

Hardly meaningless. It just proves, once again, that Berkeley and Michigan are a cut above the rest of the nation’s publics.

Overall perhaps, but I think this was posted to show UT is in a similar category to UCLA. I agree that graduate programs are not an indicator of quality of the undergraduate program, though.

Anonymous wrote:As the father of a former D1 athlete, I'd say you have have to due your due diligence on how the student-athlete experience in your kid's sport is going to work at each school.

First and formost, compatibility with the team/coaching staff (what's your best assessment of whether the staff will stick around).

What are the facilities like (I'm a UVa partisan, but UVa's facilities are - and with the possible exception of football - will remain poor)?

What's the practice and off-season training schedule? If you're a football player, McIntyre would be a heavy, heavy lift. I don't know about other sports.

Understand that your kid will basically have to pick two of the following three: sports, studies and social life. So if he or she is thinking to enjoy the live music scene in Austin, that might not happen. Would also be difficult to get the most out of nature attractions near Charlottesville.

As I said, I'm a UVa partisan, but Charlottesville isn't what it was. Can't speak to Austin

UVA's athletics facilities are pretty good. UT's are better overall, and probably among the very best, I believe, but UVA's are more than OK for football, basketball, baseball, soccer, lacrosse, field hockey, tennis, etc. And honestly, how good should college athletics facilities be if priorities are right?

It is funny you mention that Charlottesville isn't what it was. Several posts on here have said that about Austin. I've lived in both and attended both schools and I think there is some truth to both claims. I liked them both better in the past, but they still can be fine for 4 years.

OP, you should really disregard much of what has been written. Both are fine schools. You should focus more on what your kid wants to get out of their college years.

As the father of a former D1 athlete, I'd say you have have to due your due diligence on how the student-athlete experience in your kid's sport is going to work at each school.

First and formost, compatibility with the team/coaching staff (what's your best assessment of whether the staff will stick around).

What are the facilities like (I'm a UVa partisan, but UVa's facilities are - and with the possible exception of football - will remain poor)?

What's the practice and off-season training schedule? If you're a football player, McIntyre would be a heavy, heavy lift. I don't know about other sports.

Understand that your kid will basically have to pick two of the following three: sports, studies and social life. So if he or she is thinking to enjoy the live music scene in Austin, that might not happen. Would also be difficult to get the most out of nature attractions near Charlottesville.

As I said, I'm a UVa partisan, but Charlottesville isn't what it was. Can't speak to Austin

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Anonymous wrote:UVA is every bit as good as UTA for business.

UVA McIntire is much better in fact.

The catch is you have to apply for the business program in 2nd year.
The acceptance rate to the program is around 55-60%

Big risk but it's much better than UTA.

I would not choose either for Business especially when UTA is OOS
People should know what they are talking about.

UVA McIntire is not "much better in fact". I do dislike rankings, but UT is ranked 7 in higher rated in USNWR, vs T8 for UVA, so there is that. UT is a direct admit, which makes it better for those who really want to concentrate in business for most of 4 years vs. 2 years. This is particularly helpful in areas like accounting, if that is what you want to do.

You are wrong. In 2021, McIntire's B.S. in Commerce once again ranked as the 2nd best undergraduate business program overall in the U.S. by business education website Poets&Quants, and was ranked 1st in the U.S. by alumni satisfaction for student experience, maintaining a top three spot on the list for the fourth consecutive year.

McIntire School of Commerce - Wikipediahttps://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › McIntire_School_of_Co...

2nd best is too much of stretch, but it's a level above UT's McComb

Here is USNWR ranking for UT McCombs:

7 Overall (ahead of McIntire)
1 in Accounting
2 in Production Operations
4 in Finance
4 in Management Information Systems
4 in Real Estate
4 in Marketing
5 in Management
6 in Insurance Risk
6 in Quantitative Analysis
7 in Business Analytics
8 in Supply Chain
9 in Entrepreneurship
10 in International Business

Higher than UVA McIntire in every single category, I believe.

and you are still wrong: In 2021, McIntire's B.S. in Commerce once again ranked as the 2nd best undergraduate business program overall in the U.S. by business education website Poets&Quants, and was ranked 1st in the U.S. by alumni satisfaction for student experience, maintaining a top three spot on the list for the fourth consecutive year.

McIntire School of Commerce - Wikipediahttps://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › McIntire_School_of_Co...
A

Not wrong. UVA is lower ranked than UT in every undergraduate business category and subcategory in USNWR.

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Anonymous wrote:thoughts on national reputation, academics, and social life?

UVA is overall a much better school for most liberal arts majors but UT seems to do better on STEM fields. Nevertheless, living in a red state these days is kind of sketchy especially with academic suppression and curtailing free speech. I don't think this bodes well for schools in these places.

First- liberal arts includes sciences, so it is not the opposite of STEM. Secondly, I think you are underrecogning how strong the departments at UT are. I don't think it is especially important at an undergrad level, since I think that a given undergrad can get a great education at either place. but, it is ridiculous to say that UVA is a much better school, particulalrly without pointing to any data.
Department rankings: UVA, UT
English- 11, 17
History- 18, 11
Sociology- 34, 11

Liberal arts does not include sciences, which is why the college is often named "Liberal Arts and Sciences". And STEM does not include social sciences.

UT has a strong graduate department for humanities & social sciences. But for an undergraduate education in humanities, the small class sizes matter much more than graduate research.

This is the opposite for STEM - graduate research means top tier facilities that undergrads can use. And STEM lectures are not discussion-heavy so the small class sizes are unimportant.

You are wrong, liberal arts absolutely includes STEM fields such as math, biology, chemistry. Those are liberal arts. And no most schools don't say "liberal arts and sciences", in fact name one? They may says "arts and sciences" such as UVA, but not "liberal arts and sciences". You are wrong.

Schools started saying "Liberal Arts and Sciences" specifically because there are so many people out there who aren't aware that science and mathematics are in Liberal Arts.

Anonymous wrote:From a social perspective, it doesn't make sense to go to UVA if your child is not planning to joining Greek Life. Although if they are an athlete, that greatly resolves the social life problem.

Completely untrue and an utterly worthless inject into an already worthless thread.

From a social perspective, it doesn't make sense to go to UVA if your child is not planning to joining Greek Life. Although if they are an athlete, that greatly resolves the social life problem.

I went to both schools: UVA for undergrad and grad, and then UT for grad. I loved both. UVA is smaller, and if you don't like the Greek system, it is hard for a bit to find your people. It is not football obsessed. Charlottesville is lovely and small and beautiful and charming. UT is huge, and in a bigger city - that comes with more internships, opportunities, people and companies that will hire a graduate. I loved both - you can't go wrong with either.