Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am PP. I terminated a pregnancy for Down syndrome. It is not incompatible with life. It just wasn’t something that my husband and I wanted for our lives and the life of our older DC. To me, that’s reason enough. And anyway, why do strangers care so much what others do with their genetic material?

I terminated when we found out the 3rd pregnancy was a boy. I had told my husband I would only raise a 3rd child if it was a girl, as our first 2 were boys. This was an unintended pregnancy so I was not thrilled to begin with. 1st trimester so there were no issues.

On the other hand, my older boy has Down syndrome and I cannot imagine my life without him. He is the delight of our lives.

I only write this to point out there are myriad and COMPLICATED reasons and situations to end a pregnancy and none of them are anyone's business.

That's insane. You should have had a tubal ligation instead of tossing the dice with another pregnancy. I hope abortion rights are restored -- and I hope people stop taking abortion this lightly, too.

Anonymous wrote:Abortion is one of those things you can be fully, 100 percent against - until you need one. My catholic best childhood friend was against abortion rights until she got pregnant at 19. She got an abortion.

Yeah, this is how it is. But she may regret that abortion for the rest of her life, especially since she's Catholic. That's a heavy cross to bear, pun intended.


There are so many aspects to this issue that rarely get discussed publically. The two sides are so extreme, it's a shame that normal women can't express the reality of abortion rights and be heard.

Anonymous wrote:I am PP. I terminated a pregnancy for Down syndrome. It is not incompatible with life. It just wasn’t something that my husband and I wanted for our lives and the life of our older DC. To me, that’s reason enough. And anyway, why do strangers care so much what others do with their genetic material?

I terminated when we found out the 3rd pregnancy was a boy. I had told my husband I would only raise a 3rd child if it was a girl, as our first 2 were boys. This was an unintended pregnancy so I was not thrilled to begin with. 1st trimester so there were no issues.

On the other hand, my older boy has Down syndrome and I cannot imagine my life without him. He is the delight of our lives.

I only write this to point out there are myriad and COMPLICATED reasons and situations to end a pregnancy and none of them are anyone's business.

Anonymous wrote:As OP mentioned and others, we need to stop the illusion that late maternal age (after 35) is low risk, it's not we should be having our children in late 20s or early 30s. The vast majority of defects and issues are from late material age pregnancies.

You are welcome to do that. You cannot tell others to do that with their lives. To me, having children when I was financially and emotionally ready meant being a great mother versus an inferior one a decade earlier. Even if that meant a slightly higher risk that was managed with generic testing and the possibility for a termination. I am pro-choice and have no issue with abortion. If you do, don’t get one.
Why do you care what a stranger does with the product of their genes? It does not affect your life whatsoever. In fact, it makes it worse by contributing to over-population and in many cases higher crime and poverty rates.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Approximately 18% of all pregnancies in the United States end in induced abortion. That percentage is far higher among POC, far lower among mothers with other children. Despite the cases which detail some very scary maternal health issues, only 9-10% of induced abortions are related to the health of the mother or child, or resulted from rape/incest.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/ss/ss7009a1.htm

“only” 9-10%? That’s actually a really big number.

+1 That’s bigger than I expected it to be.

So 90% is for convenience, that is heartbreaking and sad

It’s “heartbreaking “ more WOMEN’S lives are not at risk? Really?

Anonymous wrote:June 24, the day the Supreme Court ruled on Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health,was my 40th birthday. I was able to celebrate because abortion saved my life.

In September 2020, I had my 20 week anatomy scan for a pregnancy we very much wanted. That the fetus’s kidneys and lungs were not developing, there was fluid around the heart, I had no amniotic fluid, and my placenta was severely degraded. All my doctors agreed, the only choice was to terminate my pregnancy.

Thankfully, in MD and DC, abortion up to 24 weeks was legal. Even so, I had to jump through many stressful, challenging hoops: switching doctors to a practice who would perform the procedure; navigating Hyde Amendment restrictions on my Federal employee insurance; and being alone at appointments because of Covid restrictions.

I am thankful every day that I was able to get the care I needed at a hospital with an experienced and compassionate medical team. The the doctors could not stop me from bleeding after the procedure. I went into hypovolemic shock, lost 3x the amount of blood in my body, and formed blood clots in my hand and foot. I woke up with a breathing tube in the ICU, all alone and in excruciating pain. But I was alive. I was in the ICU for 8 days.

The decision in Dobbs means that pregnant woman like me will die. Even in states that provide exception for “life of the mother,” when abortion is so severely restricted, the care is not actually available. Who gets to decide how likely it is that I’m going to die before I get the medical care I need? How will doctors be able to provide the care we need to save our lives?

All abortion is, in some way, to save the life of the mother. I share my story as one example of the repercussions of denying reproductive health care to us.

Here's what I genuinely don't understand. If this procedure is medically necessary (and I don't doubt that it is), why are only certain ob/gyns willing or able to perform it? Is it because it is so complicated to learn (I'm dubious, given the other procedures these doctors offer and the emergencies they handle)(, because it is so rare (again, not an excuse; I assume your doctors would have treated you if you had spontaneously begun to abort), or for some other reason?

You suggest it was because of abortion restrictions, so do you think it was genuinely because your doctors were afraid of performing this procedure because of legal consequences?

Obviously we are going to need some very courageous doctors who feel confident that they can defend their decisions in court if this is the case.

The same advances in technology that the pro-life side argues defends their position can also be used to argue for lack of viability.

I think however that, for most pro-lifers, they are actually just bringing up the "health of the mother" argument to try to argue that ANY limits on abortion are dangerous to women, and whether this is true or not, it immediately goes back to the "all or nothing" argument that is actually not something most Americans favor. (Most Americans are pro-choice, but many-- me included-- are uncomfortable with the idea that allowing an ob/gyn to decide when to terminate a pregnancy for health reasons could extend to allowing a woman who is twenty weeks pregnant with a healthy baby to terminate that pregnancy at a clinic where she never actually consults with her own ob/gyn. Fortunately, I think the latter is very rare, but I'm not sure that's an argument for allowing it to ever happen, and I'm not convinced it's legally impossible to distinguish between these occurrences. That is why I go back to the fact that your own doctor would not perform the procedure-- if the same people who deliver our babies had been tasked with performing abortions instead of doctors whose sole job is abortions and often never see the woman undergoing an abortion prior to or after the procedure, it seems to me women with medical issues would be safer and less affected by the nationwide debate over life. Then again, it would also make abortion a lot less accessible-- and so we have to be honest about what we really want. If what we really want is accessible abortion, for any reason, at any time, it requires a different kind of approach. Because even most pro-lifers are on our side with the health of the mother/rape/incest but most pro-choicers get uncomfortable when we begin talking about healthy babies in the second or third trimesters.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Approximately 18% of all pregnancies in the United States end in induced abortion. That percentage is far higher among POC, far lower among mothers with other children. Despite the cases which detail some very scary maternal health issues, only 9-10% of induced abortions are related to the health of the mother or child, or resulted from rape/incest.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/ss/ss7009a1.htm

“only” 9-10%? That’s actually a really big number.

+1 That’s bigger than I expected it to be.

So 90% is for convenience, that is heartbreaking and sad

Not a reason for it to be illegal, though. And that's what we're talking about here.

I'm not sure I would label 90% "convenience," but definitely "elective/wanted" versus needed for "health reasons/victims of crimes." So that's elective "aborting" of 774,000 or so in the US each year. One can voice support abortion but we know from medical advances since the 1970's that these are more than "genetic material."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Approximately 18% of all pregnancies in the United States end in induced abortion. That percentage is far higher among POC, far lower among mothers with other children. Despite the cases which detail some very scary maternal health issues, only 9-10% of induced abortions are related to the health of the mother or child, or resulted from rape/incest.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/ss/ss7009a1.htm

“only” 9-10%? That’s actually a really big number.

+1 That’s bigger than I expected it to be.

So 90% is for convenience, that is heartbreaking and sad

Not a reason for it to be illegal, though. And that's what we're talking about here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I delievered twins at 20 weeks and obviously they lived only a few hours, so I am truly sympathetic to your loss. I also endured non-stop and dangerous bleeding after a different delivery. So I understand a little bit what you went through. So please understand, I don't mean to be callous or dismissive. But, I am trying to understand how the abortion saved your life. It kind of sounds like the abortion endangered your life. What would have happened had the pregnancy been left to end on its own? Yes, it would have been difficult to know you were carrying a baby that would not survive, but it may very well have been a safer decision. Sometimes in life we suffer through very sad things. I have had my share. But I don't think it's accurate to say that abortion saved your life.

I mean I’m not a doctor but all my doctors told me I would be at higher risk of placental abruption if I waited. So maybe it hastened the inevitable but at least I was already in the OR when it happened.

What it hastened, by probabaly only a few hours, was delivery. In fact, my 20-week twins were born because of placental abruption and when that happens, so does spontaneous abortion--at 20 weeks, that means delivery of babies, non-viable babies. Trust me, I held mine. They are not a sack of cells as some people like to believe. I love that OP gets all kinds of sympathy for her choice to end the pregnancy, but mine ended without a choice and all I get is argument. I asked a thoughtful question, shared my opinion--which includes believing strongly in OP's and everyone else's right to abort their pregnancies--for any reason--but it's not good enough. Evidently, you're either with them on celebrating abortion or you're against them. Got it.

I'm very sorry for both your losses and the OP's loss. It must have been -- and still is from the sound of it -- very hard, and not something you get over.

However, this is where my sympathy for you ends -- in that you cannot respect OP's decision, based on the medical advice of her doctors, to terminate her non-viable pregnancy before a life-threatening situation got worse.

You both suffered losses, but you did not walk in her shoes -- you were not faced with the decision she was, or given the medical advice to terminate she was given, because your placenta abrupted and that was that.

Can't you even have a little empathy for the OP and put yourself in her shoes? What if your placenta had abrupted or your waters broke and you *hadn't* gone into labor on your own? What if your fetuses (babies) had decomposed within you, putting you at risk of lethal infection -- or an infection that could have necessitated a hysterectomy such that you could never have another baby? These were all very real risks that you faced and, very luckily for you even in a tragic situation, avoided.

The OP is not "better than you" for making the terrible choice she had to make. But similarly, you are not "better than her" because you didn't even have time to face the hard choices she had so you didn't have to make any choice at all. It's not a pain Olympics, and it's also not a virtue Olympics.

*standing ovation*

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Approximately 18% of all pregnancies in the United States end in induced abortion. That percentage is far higher among POC, far lower among mothers with other children. Despite the cases which detail some very scary maternal health issues, only 9-10% of induced abortions are related to the health of the mother or child, or resulted from rape/incest.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/ss/ss7009a1.htm

“only” 9-10%? That’s actually a really big number.

+1 That’s bigger than I expected it to be.

So 90% is for convenience, that is heartbreaking and sad

As OP mentioned and others, we need to stop the illusion that late maternal age (after 35) is low risk, it's not we should be having our children in late 20s or early 30s. The vast majority of defects and issues are from late material age pregnancies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a medical abortion. The embryo heart stopped but because of other issues my body would not miscarry. I’m ever thankful that my doctor was kind and performed it before sepsis set in. People posting here know very little about the dangers of pregnancy.
I have had 3 friends with later MC who nearly bled to death. MC can be fatal.
Up until recently the main cause of death among women under 50 was childbirth or pregnancy complications of which there are many.
But nothing will change the pro choice attitude.

Yes this. It broke my heart to see abortion listed on my medical paperwork for a much wanted and desired pregnancy. But nothing was right with the pregnancy from the very first scans. I waited an agonizing 5 weeks for the heartbeat to stop. We all knew it would, it was just a matter of when. I was 11 weeks. Then my body would not give up the fetal tissue. I waited another two weeks to miscarry naturally and it would not happen. So I had a D&C. Traumatizing and the nurses didn’t help. I’d never had a general in my life and I woke up sobbing, to hear a nurse say “we’ve got a a weeper.”

What would have happened if I couldn’t get that D&C, even with a no longer viable pregnancy that had already lingered for weeks?

I am unaware of any state law that outlaws abortion for a non-viable pregnancy or one that is to protect the health of the mother.

How is the fact of your studied ignorance relevant to this conversation in any way?

Abortion is one of those things you can be fully, 100 percent against - until you need one. My catholic best childhood friend was against abortion rights until she got pregnant at 19. She got an abortion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a medical abortion. The embryo heart stopped but because of other issues my body would not miscarry. I’m ever thankful that my doctor was kind and performed it before sepsis set in. People posting here know very little about the dangers of pregnancy.
I have had 3 friends with later MC who nearly bled to death. MC can be fatal.
Up until recently the main cause of death among women under 50 was childbirth or pregnancy complications of which there are many.
But nothing will change the pro choice attitude.

Yes this. It broke my heart to see abortion listed on my medical paperwork for a much wanted and desired pregnancy. But nothing was right with the pregnancy from the very first scans. I waited an agonizing 5 weeks for the heartbeat to stop. We all knew it would, it was just a matter of when. I was 11 weeks. Then my body would not give up the fetal tissue. I waited another two weeks to miscarry naturally and it would not happen. So I had a D&C. Traumatizing and the nurses didn’t help. I’d never had a general in my life and I woke up sobbing, to hear a nurse say “we’ve got a a weeper.”

What would have happened if I couldn’t get that D&C, even with a no longer viable pregnancy that had already lingered for weeks?

I am unaware of any state law that outlaws abortion for a non-viable pregnancy or one that is to protect the health of the mother.

Then you aren’t paying much attention.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I am very sorry for your loss and all you have been through. Like a PP I had a life threatening loss during COVID, ectopic, but at no point when flagging that my pregnancy may have been ectopic was the term abortion used with me in regard to terminating the pregnancy. I also ended up in the hospital alone convincing ER doctors that it was ectopic because it was so early and my numbers did not present normally and ended up losing a Fallopian tube, so on much smaller scale I can sympathize. Your experience sounds horrific and I feel sad for all women who went thorough these losses during COVID about how much was taken from us because our husbands/partners couldn't be there to truly understand what we went through and the extreme focus on being COVID adverse (necessary) adding levels of stress to these sad situations.

Could you expand on what you had to do in regards to Hyde amendment and paperwork if continuing the pregnancy was life-threatening to you and non-viable? Also, something I am actively doing to keep things in perspective is to acknowledge what I went through was rare, and the doctors didn't understand the situation well. Given that you were also in the DMV and we have access to a larger field of medical professional than a lot of the country, to me this situation and many of the tragic stories of later term pregnancy loss are reflecting how rare those situations are and maybe how little resources we put into studying these pregnancies and training for them vs. access to abortion. As you point out, your situation would play out the same today in this area with or without Roe v. Wade.

The stories that are flooding the media right now with people with these types of pregnancy losses are tragic, but saying they wouldn't have the same outcomes because of the reversal of Roe v. Wade seems disingenuous. I am curious to learning how it does directly impact, and if you could share that would be very enlightening, and may be change minds on some aspects of what is being discussed.

My doctor handled the paperwork for my insurance, but I was informed if they didn’t cover it, the procedure would be at least $10,000 plus hospital costs, plus anesthesia costs.

If I lived in a state that banned abortions and not MD, then the outcome would be worse because I would have had to travel to another state, and what would have happened if I were in the ICU for 8 days without my husband and other children? The logistics would have been very challenging. And I acknowledge my privilege that I probably could have figured it out, but it’s clearly not ideal.

I have a friend who had to pay for d & c out of pocket - I doubt this is Hyde amendment related unless you're on Medicaide? The Hyde Amendment is a legislative provision barring the use of federal funds to pay for abortion, except to save the life of the woman, or if the pregnancy arises from incest or rape.

I appreciate your logistics challenge but will point out people in rural states would face these challenges anyway. Also, not sure why you believe this situation wouldn't have been handled the same way everywhere. Again, I am sorry for your loss - it is very devastating.