Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Big tent party so there are more diverse people and views to appeal to.
2. Dems are aware that reality is complex and way beyond simplistic sound bites.
3. Thoughtful pragmatic policies are harder to condense that black and white hate mongering.

Dems do need better communicators getting the message across about inclusive democracy may be messy but it sure beats authoritarian dictatorships which is where we were heading under Trump.

Agree with PP that need to keep it simple even though reality is complex

It’s about the future of the planet, human survival and democracy.

It is really hard to message about those sorts of big existential problems. By and large, people are voting on how you are going to help me today.

Anonymous wrote:1. Big tent party so there are more diverse people and views to appeal to.
2. Dems are aware that reality is complex and way beyond simplistic sound bites.
3. Thoughtful pragmatic policies are harder to condense that black and white hate mongering.

Dems do need better communicators getting the message across about inclusive democracy may be messy but it sure beats authoritarian dictatorships which is where we were heading under Trump.

I believe this is all true - and our side is really just awful at messaging and comms.

"It's the economy stupid" - that was smart advice. Our side is terrible at message discipline, among other things.

Sure some of it is because we're a big tent party. We're heterodox. Some of our side's best communicators - like AOC, yes AOC - aren't pushing for what normie Dems want. She's on the side of the far left of the party. Which is tricky for a couple of reasons - it means that she's not pushing out the centrist Dem messages and also many people take what she's saying as representative of the whole party (or cynically say so).

I think Rs are better at message discipline, and also have a well funded, widely-viewed media company in the tank for them. We have MSNBC but they reach a more fractured audience.

In short: we really need to recruit some better communicators to be the spokespeople for our party. Yes. But no I don't think it's because Rs hire professionals and Ds are amateurs. Ds hire professionals, too, they just aren't doing as good a job for a variety of reasons.

Anonymous wrote:No. Republicans have it easy because all they do are misleading emotional appeals to fears and prejudices. They don’t try to do any governing so they don’t have policies to explain. It’s all emotional triggering to bigotry. It works when they are the opposition but they have trouble when they win because they fail disastrously at even basic governing.

Democrats are constantly proposing policies and reforms and there are always divisions even within the party over different ways to do something, how much, who pays, who and how to do management and oversight, etc. It’s easy to find something to criticize about Democrats because they disagree among themselves.

This. Fear-based sound bites stick in peoples heads. Nuanced conversations about complex issues and trade-offs don’t “poll” well in media so no one talks about them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Marketing? People actually think the reason SOME people reject left-wing politics is because of marketing, and not substance? Ugh.

This is an example of just how intellectually siloed some people have become.

This is so true.

Only a minority of people in US have college degrees … wealth equalities are rather extreme in US compared to many other Western countries. Many people here flounder in inter generational poverty and low education levels.

The point is not to look down on people who need help creating better futures for themselves but to communicate why democratic policies generally serve them better in easy to understand ways.
Livable wages
Universal health care
Good public education
Surviving climate change
Democracy itself

Are good for the majority of the population, for business and the planet itself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a theory that the left has so many gaffes because the right is wealthier, more coordinated and hires professional political consulting firms at a higher frequency than the left does.

I think what happened is that the same Russians who herded Republicans to the hateful right herded Democrats to the loony left. Democrats often have trouble presenting rational arguments for a lot of positive because a. many of us refuse to take funding or market forces seriously; and b. a lot of our positions came from a meme on Twitter and have no substance, or value.

That sounds about right ideology and identity politics wise.

However in reality, many policy positions cast as part of the “loony left” (universal health care, sensible gun controls, livable wages and early childhood education for example) are centrist pragmatic in other rich countries. We come from two wealthy countries but have lived in DMV for many years. We love it here. Dear spouse votes conservative in home country. Yet He/ she supports livable wages, universal health care, public early education and sensible gun controls, and believes in science informed responses to climate change and the pandemic. All that is good for the private sector.

The right wing positions in US are increasingly not rational and hyper focus on fringe social issues such as transgender bathrooms, CRT in schools even though it is not taught anywhere, anti woke-ism, and weird conspiracy theories.

The left here should really get the message across that many of their policies are good for business, people and the planet.

“sensible gun controls” = No guns for you!

Nope but thanks for proving point that right wingers here focus on fri he social issues and not bread and butter issues.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The left struggles because their messages suck.

Which messages suck?

Here are a few in recent years:

Defund the police
Don't worry about the price of gas. Buy an EV.
Inflation is transitory.
No need to secure the southern border. Migrants just want to claim asylum.
Nothing wrong with teaching K-3 kids about sexual orientation and gender identity.
Parents should not have a say in education.
It doesn't matter if only a few biological men are allowed to compete in women's sports.
The laptop is Russian disinformation.
We need to do away with Title 42, but members of the House still need to work from home and be able to vote by proxy.
Entertainers and professional athletes can be exempt from vaccine mandates, but everyone else is not exempt.
The threat of sanctions wasn't really intended as a deterrent as many in this administration claimed.

I know there are more. These are just off my head.

None of those are Democratic messages. Those are Republican disinformation about Democrats intended to trigger idiots and bigots.

OMG. I can't even believe the gaslighting going on here. "Disinformation"?? Those are messages directly from your party. Own it.
DP

Dp- yeah no. Most of the list is made up straw man nonsense.

+1
This thread is an excellent example of what I cited above: the GOP is one big message and everyone moves in lockstep, even to the point that they all use the same lies and distortions and then claim them as fact. That’s wacky as hell.

And they are excellent at framing the argument. Look at the “Don’t say Gay” bill.
They have reframed it against a position the democrats aren’t even taking.
I can’t find any example of teachers discussing gender identity to third graders, but republicans have created legislation against an imaginary problem that thr public now accepts as reality.
Same with voter fraud.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a theory that the left has so many gaffes because the right is wealthier, more coordinated and hires professional political consulting firms at a higher frequency than the left does.

I think what happened is that the same Russians who herded Republicans to the hateful right herded Democrats to the loony left. Democrats often have trouble presenting rational arguments for a lot of positive because a. many of us refuse to take funding or market forces seriously; and b. a lot of our positions came from a meme on Twitter and have no substance, or value.

The Democrats haven’t really drifted, but the GOP has. Their own positions from a few years ago are now derided as “liberal” policies. That’s insane.

And let’s not forget:

The only reason that the GOP has messaging hegemony is because they have the corporate media in their pocket and that’s how people frame issues. I know everyone likes to pretend that they’re independent thinkers, but the fact is that the way the message is filtered changes how we view it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The left struggles because their messages suck.

Which messages suck?

Here are a few in recent years:

Defund the police
Don't worry about the price of gas. Buy an EV.
Inflation is transitory.
No need to secure the southern border. Migrants just want to claim asylum.
Nothing wrong with teaching K-3 kids about sexual orientation and gender identity.
Parents should not have a say in education.
It doesn't matter if only a few biological men are allowed to compete in women's sports.
The laptop is Russian disinformation.
We need to do away with Title 42, but members of the House still need to work from home and be able to vote by proxy.
Entertainers and professional athletes can be exempt from vaccine mandates, but everyone else is not exempt.
The threat of sanctions wasn't really intended as a deterrent as many in this administration claimed.

I know there are more. These are just off my head.

None of those are Democratic messages. Those are Republican disinformation about Democrats intended to trigger idiots and bigots.

OMG. I can't even believe the gaslighting going on here. "Disinformation"?? Those are messages directly from your party. Own it.
DP

Dp- yeah no. Most of the list is made up straw man nonsense.

+1
This thread is an excellent example of what I cited above: the GOP is one big message and everyone moves in lockstep, even to the point that they all use the same lies and distortions and then claim them as fact. That’s wacky as hell.

LOL.
"Lies and distortions." Ha ha. We have video evidence of the above.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The left struggles because their messages suck.

Which messages suck?

Here are a few in recent years:

Defund the police
Don't worry about the price of gas. Buy an EV.
Inflation is transitory.
No need to secure the southern border. Migrants just want to claim asylum.
Nothing wrong with teaching K-3 kids about sexual orientation and gender identity.
Parents should not have a say in education.
It doesn't matter if only a few biological men are allowed to compete in women's sports.
The laptop is Russian disinformation.
We need to do away with Title 42, but members of the House still need to work from home and be able to vote by proxy.
Entertainers and professional athletes can be exempt from vaccine mandates, but everyone else is not exempt.
The threat of sanctions wasn't really intended as a deterrent as many in this administration claimed.

I know there are more. These are just off my head.

None of those are Democratic messages. Those are Republican disinformation about Democrats intended to trigger idiots and bigots.

OMG. I can't even believe the gaslighting going on here. "Disinformation"?? Those are messages directly from your party. Own it.
DP

Dp- yeah no. Most of the list is made up straw man nonsense.

+1
This thread is an excellent example of what I cited above: the GOP is one big message and everyone moves in lockstep, even to the point that they all use the same lies and distortions and then claim them as fact. That’s wacky as hell.

Anonymous wrote:Marketing? People actually think the reason SOME people reject left-wing politics is because of marketing, and not substance? Ugh.

This is an example of just how intellectually siloed some people have become.

This is so true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a theory that the left has so many gaffes because the right is wealthier, more coordinated and hires professional political consulting firms at a higher frequency than the left does.

I think what happened is that the same Russians who herded Republicans to the hateful right herded Democrats to the loony left. Democrats often have trouble presenting rational arguments for a lot of positive because a. many of us refuse to take funding or market forces seriously; and b. a lot of our positions came from a meme on Twitter and have no substance, or value.

That sounds about right ideology and identity politics wise.

However in reality, many policy positions cast as part of the “loony left” (universal health care, sensible gun controls, livable wages and early childhood education for example) are centrist pragmatic in other rich countries. We come from two wealthy countries but have lived in DMV for many years. We love it here. Dear spouse votes conservative in home country. Yet He/ she supports livable wages, universal health care, public early education and sensible gun controls, and believes in science informed responses to climate change and the pandemic. All that is good for the private sector.

The right wing positions in US are increasingly not rational and hyper focus on fringe social issues such as transgender bathrooms, CRT in schools even though it is not taught anywhere, anti woke-ism, and weird conspiracy theories.

The left here should really get the message across that many of their policies are good for business, people and the planet.

“sensible gun controls” = No guns for you!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a theory that the left has so many gaffes because the right is wealthier, more coordinated and hires professional political consulting firms at a higher frequency than the left does.

I think what happened is that the same Russians who herded Republicans to the hateful right herded Democrats to the loony left. Democrats often have trouble presenting rational arguments for a lot of positive because a. many of us refuse to take funding or market forces seriously; and b. a lot of our positions came from a meme on Twitter and have no substance, or value.

That sounds about right ideology and identity politics wise.

However in reality, many policy positions cast as part of the “loony left” (universal health care, sensible gun controls, livable wages and early childhood education for example) are centrist pragmatic in other rich countries. We come from two wealthy countries but have lived in DMV for many years. We love it here. Dear spouse votes conservative in home country. Yet He/ she supports livable wages, universal health care, public early education and sensible gun controls, and believes in science informed responses to climate change and the pandemic. All that is good for the private sector.

The right wing positions in US are increasingly not rational and hyper focus on fringe social issues such as transgender bathrooms, CRT in schools even though it is not taught anywhere, anti woke-ism, and weird conspiracy theories.

The left here should really get the message across that many of their policies are good for business, people and the planet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Big tent party so there are more diverse people and views to appeal to.
2. Dems are aware that reality is complex and way beyond simplistic sound bites.
3. Thoughtful pragmatic policies are harder to condense that black and white hate mongering.

Dems do need better communicators getting the message across about inclusive democracy may be messy but it sure beats authoritarian dictatorships which is where we were heading under Trump.

Like the complex reality of “Putin’s Price Hike” ?

That one's not even that hard. Russia only accounts for a paltry 3% of US energy. The rest of the price hike is shitty commodities traders, trying to exploit a bad situation of war in Ukraine. That 97% simple enough for you?

Anonymous wrote:1. Big tent party so there are more diverse people and views to appeal to.
2. Dems are aware that reality is complex and way beyond simplistic sound bites.
3. Thoughtful pragmatic policies are harder to condense that black and white hate mongering.

Dems do need better communicators getting the message across about inclusive democracy may be messy but it sure beats authoritarian dictatorships which is where we were heading under Trump.

Like the complex reality of “Putin’s Price Hike” ?

Anonymous wrote:I have a theory that the left has so many gaffes because the right is wealthier, more coordinated and hires professional political consulting firms at a higher frequency than the left does.

I think what happened is that the same Russians who herded Republicans to the hateful right herded Democrats to the loony left. Democrats often have trouble presenting rational arguments for a lot of positive because a. many of us refuse to take funding or market forces seriously; and b. a lot of our positions came from a meme on Twitter and have no substance, or value.