Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Iowa is a super depressing town and environment with a HARDCORE party culture. Think like as cold as Ithaca but somehow even more remote, and somehow even more depressing, except all the students drink three times as much and are twice as horny.

okay, if you insist: Tucson is a drab blacktop sprawl with nice winter weather (can't let a sentence go by without commenting on that....) but wretched crime rates - among the most dangerous 10% of metro areas in the country -- and UofA is, apart from a few science grad programs, mostly a cramped party school for SoCal airheads who couldn't get into one of their state schools, and for poorly prepared AZ locals coming from a state with lower per capita education spending than WV or Mississippi.

This isn't really true. Arizona gives free tuition to the top slice of all the public high schools. Everyone I know went to UofA for free, and were as smart as I am (I went Ivy)--they just wanted to stay close to home and not go into debt. Rent is pretty cheap too, and there are lots of part-time jobs available to cover rent. I know lots of UofA grads that went to top grad schools and have great careers now. I do agree with PPs that the STEM is really strong, and you probably have to fight your way through to good classes more in the humanities. Econ is also strong there.
I'm also not sure where you're getting the crime rates....the area around the U is really safe. I can't speak to the larger crime rates in Tucson or Pima County, though. Agreed that it is, on average, not a rich city.

+1 to the quality of local students who stay.

Tucson is, for better or worse, highly segregated. Stay out of South Tucson and it's pretty safe. Stay in the university area and north of it, and it's relatively safe and wealthy. Lots of wealth in Oro Valley and the Catalina Foothills.

Anonymous wrote:

Iowa is a super depressing town and environment with a HARDCORE party culture. Think like as cold as Ithaca but somehow even more remote, and somehow even more depressing, except all the students drink three times as much and are twice as horny.

okay, if you insist: Tucson is a drab blacktop sprawl with nice winter weather (can't let a sentence go by without commenting on that....) but wretched crime rates - among the most dangerous 10% of metro areas in the country -- and UofA is, apart from a few science grad programs, mostly a cramped party school for SoCal airheads who couldn't get into one of their state schools, and for poorly prepared AZ locals coming from a state with lower per capita education spending than WV or Mississippi.

This isn't really true. Arizona gives free tuition to the top slice of all the public high schools. Everyone I know went to UofA for free, and were as smart as I am (I went Ivy)--they just wanted to stay close to home and not go into debt. Rent is pretty cheap too, and there are lots of part-time jobs available to cover rent. I know lots of UofA grads that went to top grad schools and have great careers now. I do agree with PPs that the STEM is really strong, and you probably have to fight your way through to good classes more in the humanities. Econ is also strong there.
I'm also not sure where you're getting the crime rates....the area around the U is really safe. I can't speak to the larger crime rates in Tucson or Pima County, though. Agreed that it is, on average, not a rich city.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What's especially odd about this particular discussion is that even if one were to pick a college based on that dubious criterion, the choice of going to Iowa (and easily settling in Chicago afterward) or going to Arizona (and easily settling in Phoenix afterward) is hardly a clear-cut argument for the Arizona option, to be polite. (And before ideologues chime in to point out that Chicago's population is stagnant, its population of white-collar college graduates is growing -- there's never been a better time to be a young college grad in Chicago - and there are vastly more jobs in metro Chicago than in metro PHX).


Apparently new grads want to live in Phoenix, as well as Chicago. Some of you keep responding in here with completely out of date information. It's not very helpful. Oddly Iowa isn't on the list.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/16/these-cities-are-t...uation-destinations-study.html

Huh? This survey you linked found that more new grads want to live in Chicago than in Phoenix. And while Iowa City isn't on the list (like most university towns) nor is Tucson. If you're trying to refute the previous statement that the choice between settling in Chicago and in Phoenix doesn't clearly favor Phoenix, you've just undercut your own argument. More grads would prefer to live in Chicago than in Phoenix. Read it again.

Here's another list for you since you can't acknowledge that Phoenix is a desirable place to live with a good job market. Chicago isn't a clear favorite no matter how many times you insist it is. Have you ever been to Phoenix or Arizona?

https://azbigmedia.com/lifestyle/tucson-phoenix-among-top-25-best-cities-for-new-college-grads

This is a conversation between multiple posters. But anyway, I've not heard anyone say Arizona isn't fine, just people refuting the idea that it's hands-down preferable.

how can you refute someone's OPINION? the poster asked "if you had to pick between Iowa and Arizona, which would you pick?" -- and for me (and many others) Arizona IS hands down preferable. Others might say Iowa. That is the way opinions work. It's not your call to tell them they're wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Schools have local networking opportunities though and your friends in these schools are often likely to stay in the rough area. I think it matters in the decision-making.

Don't think the purported ability to engage in regional networking after graduating (something that's much less critical to postgraduate professional and social success than you seem to think) should be a prime consideration. Not least because at age 18 few people have an informed idea of where they might want to live after college. If one followed your guidance, people would basically either go to "T20" national-draw schools or -- the vast majority -- stick close to home to maximize their network (since they're likeliest to return to home after college). And avoid rural schools. And avoid "small-network" SLACs. All of which is kind of the exact opposite of the mind-expanding experience college is supposed to offer.

What's especially odd about this particular discussion is that even if one were to pick a college based on that dubious criterion, the choice of going to Iowa (and easily settling in Chicago afterward) or going to Arizona (and easily settling in Phoenix afterward) is hardly a clear-cut argument for the Arizona option, to be polite. (And before ideologues chime in to point out that Chicago's population is stagnant, its population of white-collar college graduates is growing -- there's never been a better time to be a young college grad in Chicago - and there are vastly more jobs in metro Chicago than in metro PHX).

There is actual data on this. 70% of college students attending 4 year universities are within a 2 hour drive of home. So yes, most people do go to school close to home.

People who like hot weather and Mexican food should choose Arizona, and people who like winter weather and the Midwest should go to Iowa.

While the two schools are similar in some regard and rankings, they actually have differences beyond climate. If admitted to both, a prospective student should pick the school that has the better program in the area they want want to study (that can be found online if not on DCUM), is a size they're most comfortable with (UA's freshman class has 8700, Iowa's has 4500), and is in a setting that's more appealing and conducive to studying (ie city vs university town).

But yes, if a student has a strong preference for year-round warm/hot weather, or seasonal/cold climate that swamps other educational considerations, that would point them clearly in one or the other direction.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For engineering or physics, definitely Arizona. For English and adjacent fields, definitely Iowa. For anything else, I think it's a location call (warm vs cold; small city vs college town; racially diverse vs pretty darn white). They're both solid, DCUM-underrated flagships.

It’s got a ton of diversity; very heavily Hispanic.

Iowa City is less than 7% Hispanic. It's almost 80% white.

Yes, this was referencing U of A.

That doesn’t make any sense. The original post called Arizona “racially diverse.”

PP here; I clearly misread. Ignore.

Anonymous wrote:If you had to choose between these two schools which one would you pick?

I’ve been around both cities and campuses.

They’re both lovely places with great faculties

People who like hot weather and Mexican food should choose Arizona, and people who like winter weather and the Midwest should go to Iowa.

But, otherwise, they’re similar kinds of places. Students who want to be serious students can find ways to do that at both schools.

Here's another list for you since you can't acknowledge that Phoenix is a desirable place to live with a good job market. Chicago isn't a clear favorite no matter how many times you insist it is. Have you ever been to Phoenix or Arizona?

https://azbigmedia.com/lifestyle/tucson-phoenix-am...t-cities-for-new-college-grads

This is honestly like shooting fish in a barrel. If you read the article you just linked, it proudly states (as one would expect of an Arizona publication) that "SmartAsset" has ranked Tucson the 19th and Phoenix the 25th "best cities for new college grads" based on a combination of jobs, affordability and fun. And good for those two cities, seriously - I like them both. But the article also states -- not sure if you read past the headline - that Des Moines, Iowa was ranked 15th best city for new college grads, and that another five cities in states adjacent to Iowa - Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Madison, St. Louis and Kansas City -- are also in the top 15 of "best cities for new college grads" -- ie ahead of Tucson, Phoenix, or any city in the Southwest or on the West Coast. The article goes on to write (it seriously could have been written by Iowa's admissions office - do you secretly work for them?) as its top "Key Finding:"

• College grads have more opportunities away from the coasts. Six cities in the top 10 are located in the Midwest: Cincinnati, Ohio; Columbus, Ohio; Milwaukee, Wisconsin; St. Louis, Missouri; Madison, Wisconsin and Indianapolis, Indiana. Though the Midwest has a reputation for affordability, many of these Midwestern cities are college towns that also excel for our fun score, with plenty of bars, restaurants and young people.

All of which further reinforces the conclusion that if a factor in one's selection of college is picking a region where one might consider settling down afterward, as some here (not I) seem to recommend, then the choice between Iowa/Midwest and Arizona/Southwest is not a clear-cut one (notwithstanding the vehemence of some one-sided views on this thread), and if anything the survey data of opportunities for young grads seems to show a slight unexpected preference for midwestern cities over Arizonan cities.

Arizona all the way. you'll be far happier in sunnier climes.

all there is to do in iowa city in the winter is drink and die of frostbite when you get lost in a blizzard on the way back to your dorm. also the entire state smells like mold from all the springtime flooding. UIowa has the same appeal to chicagoland families that 2nd tier virginia state schools like JMU and VCU have to the children of the philly suburbs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What's especially odd about this particular discussion is that even if one were to pick a college based on that dubious criterion, the choice of going to Iowa (and easily settling in Chicago afterward) or going to Arizona (and easily settling in Phoenix afterward) is hardly a clear-cut argument for the Arizona option, to be polite. (And before ideologues chime in to point out that Chicago's population is stagnant, its population of white-collar college graduates is growing -- there's never been a better time to be a young college grad in Chicago - and there are vastly more jobs in metro Chicago than in metro PHX).


Apparently new grads want to live in Phoenix, as well as Chicago. Some of you keep responding in here with completely out of date information. It's not very helpful. Oddly Iowa isn't on the list.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/16/these-cities-are-t...uation-destinations-study.html

Huh? This survey you linked found that more new grads want to live in Chicago than in Phoenix. And while Iowa City isn't on the list (like most university towns) nor is Tucson. If you're trying to refute the previous statement that the choice between settling in Chicago and in Phoenix doesn't clearly favor Phoenix, you've just undercut your own argument. More grads would prefer to live in Chicago than in Phoenix. Read it again.

Here's another list for you since you can't acknowledge that Phoenix is a desirable place to live with a good job market. Chicago isn't a clear favorite no matter how many times you insist it is. Have you ever been to Phoenix or Arizona?

https://azbigmedia.com/lifestyle/tucson-phoenix-among-top-25-best-cities-for-new-college-grads

This is a conversation between multiple posters. But anyway, I've not heard anyone say Arizona isn't fine, just people refuting the idea that it's hands-down preferable.

Anonymous wrote:

What's especially odd about this particular discussion is that even if one were to pick a college based on that dubious criterion, the choice of going to Iowa (and easily settling in Chicago afterward) or going to Arizona (and easily settling in Phoenix afterward) is hardly a clear-cut argument for the Arizona option, to be polite. (And before ideologues chime in to point out that Chicago's population is stagnant, its population of white-collar college graduates is growing -- there's never been a better time to be a young college grad in Chicago - and there are vastly more jobs in metro Chicago than in metro PHX).


Apparently new grads want to live in Phoenix, as well as Chicago. Some of you keep responding in here with completely out of date information. It's not very helpful. Oddly Iowa isn't on the list.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/16/these-cities-are-t...uation-destinations-study.html

Huh? This survey you linked found that more new grads want to live in Chicago than in Phoenix. And while Iowa City isn't on the list (like most university towns) nor is Tucson. If you're trying to refute the previous statement that the choice between settling in Chicago and in Phoenix doesn't clearly favor Phoenix, you've just undercut your own argument. More grads would prefer to live in Chicago than in Phoenix. Read it again.

Here's another list for you since you can't acknowledge that Phoenix is a desirable place to live with a good job market. Chicago isn't a clear favorite no matter how many times you insist it is. Have you ever been to Phoenix or Arizona?

https://azbigmedia.com/lifestyle/tucson-phoenix-among-top-25-best-cities-for-new-college-grads

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For engineering or physics, definitely Arizona. For English and adjacent fields, definitely Iowa. For anything else, I think it's a location call (warm vs cold; small city vs college town; racially diverse vs pretty darn white). They're both solid, DCUM-underrated flagships.

It’s got a ton of diversity; very heavily Hispanic.

Iowa City is less than 7% Hispanic. It's almost 80% white.

Yes, this was referencing U of A.

That doesn’t make any sense. The original post called Arizona “racially diverse.”

What's especially odd about this particular discussion is that even if one were to pick a college based on that dubious criterion, the choice of going to Iowa (and easily settling in Chicago afterward) or going to Arizona (and easily settling in Phoenix afterward) is hardly a clear-cut argument for the Arizona option, to be polite. (And before ideologues chime in to point out that Chicago's population is stagnant, its population of white-collar college graduates is growing -- there's never been a better time to be a young college grad in Chicago - and there are vastly more jobs in metro Chicago than in metro PHX).


Apparently new grads want to live in Phoenix, as well as Chicago. Some of you keep responding in here with completely out of date information. It's not very helpful. Oddly Iowa isn't on the list.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/16/these-cities-are-t...uation-destinations-study.html

Huh? This survey you linked found that more new grads want to live in Chicago than in Phoenix. And while Iowa City isn't on the list (like most university towns) nor is Tucson. If you're trying to refute the previous statement that the choice between settling in Chicago and in Phoenix doesn't clearly favor Phoenix, you've just undercut your own argument. More grads would prefer to live in Chicago than in Phoenix. Read it again.

My East Coast kid went to Iowa, and then to Michigan for grad school, and now has great friends, a lovely girlfriend, and a job with benefits lined up that is also in the Midwest (but not Chicago) and would allow him to transfer back to the East Coast if he were so inclined. Which he isn't, at least not for now. He knew he wanted to get away with the extreme competitiveness of the DC area, and avoid the schools to which some of his classmates flocked, and hasn't once suggested that he regretted the decision.

"Iowa nice" is a real thing, and the fact that neither he nor anyone in his circle of Midwestern friends and co-workers would likely waste more than a minute's time arguing over Iowa compared to Arizona, at least not as if their lives depended on it, is just one of their redeeming qualities.

This. It's a pretty commonplace observation that Midwestern schools are less socially competitive than those on the East and West Coasts (and for purposes of their 'feel' Arizona and Colorado are now essentially part of the California system). That's why, based on what she saw around campus and in the local haunts, my kid passed on UA, notwithstanding its real attractions, for a school in the Midwest (not Iowa, but it was higher on her list than UA). Not a consideration for everyone, but worth throwing out there.

Anonymous wrote:

Schools have local networking opportunities though and your friends in these schools are often likely to stay in the rough area. I think it matters in the decision-making.

Don't think the purported ability to engage in regional networking after graduating (something that's much less critical to postgraduate professional and social success than you seem to think) should be a prime consideration. Not least because at age 18 few people have an informed idea of where they might want to live after college. If one followed your guidance, people would basically either go to "T20" national-draw schools or -- the vast majority -- stick close to home to maximize their network (since they're likeliest to return to home after college). And avoid rural schools. And avoid "small-network" SLACs. All of which is kind of the exact opposite of the mind-expanding experience college is supposed to offer.

What's especially odd about this particular discussion is that even if one were to pick a college based on that dubious criterion, the choice of going to Iowa (and easily settling in Chicago afterward) or going to Arizona (and easily settling in Phoenix afterward) is hardly a clear-cut argument for the Arizona option, to be polite. (And before ideologues chime in to point out that Chicago's population is stagnant, its population of white-collar college graduates is growing -- there's never been a better time to be a young college grad in Chicago - and there are vastly more jobs in metro Chicago than in metro PHX).

Apparently new grads want to live in Phoenix, as well as Chicago. Some of you keep responding in here with completely out of date information. It's not very helpful. Oddly Iowa isn't on the list.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/16/these-cities-are-the-most-desired-post-graduation-destinations-study.html