Anonymous wrote:When admissions aren't need-blind, how much of an advantage can full pay be? Does it differ at more competitive vs. less competitive schools? Is there an advantage to being able to pay more ( = having a higher notional EFC) even if not quite all?

Thanks in advance for any insights. As you can see here we are new to this.

I think that, if you have a great kid who'd be a good fit for a school, most schools below the Top 50 that aren't super idealistic will try to get their net cost to somewhere within about $5,000 of the true full cost of going to the kid's state flagship with in-state tuition.
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So, for example: I have a wonderful son with fine but not perfect stats (3.8 unweighted GPA; 1440 on the SATs at one sitting) and nice but not spectacular activities. Aid calculators showed we could pay $45,000 to $50,000 per year for college.

My son applied to two second-tier state universities and two private schools that are comparable to Catholic University, along with the state flagship and some lottery-level schools (Yale and Northwestern).

Yale and Northwestern rejected him.

The state flagship let him in, gave him no aid, and would have really cost about $40,000 per year, all in.

The second-tier publics gave enough merit aid to get the cost down to about $30,000.

The two Catholic University-level schools (well-known schools ranked about 80 to 150 on the U.S. News & World Report list) offered merit aid that would have pulled the net cash cost down to $40,000 per year, or about the same cost as the state flagship.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I am just as confused as when I started reading this thread. Possibly more. To fill or not to fill....that is the question.

If school is need aware and you want admission more than FA and qualify for FA but can afford school without it, don't ask for FA.
If school is need blind ask if you qualify. No risk.
If you need FA either way and qualify, ask for it. No decision to make there.

That's as simple as it can be.

We don’t need any FA and won’t qualify a dime. I would happily take merit money, though.

Anonymous wrote:I will bite and ask a question: are there any need aware schools for high stats kids? Kid has highest rigor from DC private with excellent grades and 1550 SAT. We are fully pay (not big donor) and I don’t think it matters much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blind_admission

U.S. institutions that are not need-blind for U.S. applicants and meet full demonstrated need for certain or all students
Many reputable institutions that once championed need-blind policies have modified their policies due to rising costs as well as subpar endowment returns. Such institutions include prestigious colleges that do not offer merit-based aid but promise to meet 100% of financial need (mostly through grants). These stated institutions refer to themselves as "need-aware" or "need-sensitive," with policies that detract from their ability to admit and educate all qualified candidates but allow them to meet the full need of all admitted students who qualify for financial aid (many institutions extend this policy to all students).[53]

For instance, at Macalester College, Mount Holyoke College and Smith College, at least 95% of students are admitted without financial need being a factor, but a slim percentage, generally students who are waitlisted or who have borderline qualifications, are reviewed in consideration of the college's projected financial resources. All three colleges grant all admitted students financial aid packages meeting 100% of need.[54] At Wesleyan University, attempted shifts to a "need-aware" admission policy have resulted in protests by the school's student body.[55]

Some institutions only meet the full need for students who are domestic US residents and/or are eligible for US federal financial aid, as proven by the applicant's FAFSA and CSS profile. A few only meet the full need of students under specific demographics who are considered "economically disadvantaged" and may not be guaranteed to meet the full need of other students. Do note that some colleges don't state their financial aid admissions policy, so they're sorted into the need-aware category. The following schools fall into this category:

Alma College (Detroit high school students only)[56]
American University (may not meet full need for transfer students)[57]
Aquinas College (3.4 GPA and an SAT score of 1100 or ACT equivalent or higher required)[58]
Bard College (only for historically economically disadvantaged in-state first-year students)[59]
Bates College
Boston University (may not meet full need for international students)[60]
Bryn Mawr College
California State University, Long Beach[61]
Carleton College
Case Western Reserve University
Colby College
Colgate University
College of the Holy Cross[62]
Colorado College
Connecticut College[63]
DePauw University (in-state students seeking financial aid only)[64]
Dickinson College[65]
Franklin and Marshall College
George Washington University (lower-income first-year students of the District of Columbia who qualify for the D.C. Tuition Assistance Grant only)[66]
Gettysburg College (select academically excelling, underrepresented minority, first-generation, first-year students only as part of the Gettysburg College STEM Scholars program)[67]
Haverford College[68]
Hendrix College (3.6 GPA and an ACT score of 26 or higher or an SAT score of 1230 or higher required)[69]
Hobart and William Smith Colleges (early decision applicants only)[70]
Kenyon College
Lafayette College[71]
Macalester College
Mount Holyoke College
National University of Natural Medicine[72]
Northeastern University (may not meet full need for international students)[73]
Oberlin College
Occidental College
Ohio State University (only in-state students who qualify for the Pell Grant have the full need met)[74]
Ohio Wesleyan University (Charles Thomas Scholars only)[75]
Pitzer College
Reed College
Saint Joseph's University (select underrepresented students only as part of the STEM^2 Scholarship Program)[76]
Sewanee: The University of the South[77]
Scripps College
Skidmore College[78]
Smith College
St. Olaf College[79]
Thomas Aquinas College
Stonehill College (Cathedral High School (Boston) graduates only) [80]
Trinity College
Trinity University (only for San Antonio Independent School District students)[81]
Tufts University[82]
Union College
University of Miami[83]
University of Pittsburgh (Pittsburgh public high school valedictorians and salutatorians as part of the Pittsburgh Public Scholars program only)[84]
University of Puget Sound (Tacoma public high school students only)[85]
University of Rochester[86]
Washington & Jefferson College (only in-state students who are eligible for the Pennsylvania State Grant, and have a 3.7+ GPA plus an SAT score of 1200 or an ACT score of 27)[87]
Washington & Lee University
Wesleyan University
Worcester Polytechnic Institute (Worcester public high school students eligible for the Pell Grant as part of the Great Minds/Compass Scholars Program only)[88]

I haven't seen any advantage to being full pay personally. Super high stat kid- almost perfect stats actually, in at most, some defers, two rejects. Got big merit at some - filled out fafsa because we didn't know whether we should or not for merit.

In my day and age, if I had stats like my kid and my parents had money, you'd be in at every school you applied to- no question. I thought maybe full pay would be an advantage but for those where he got rejected and other friends with lesser score and aid request accepted, I don't think it factored in at all.

I'd love to know the magical formula of how colleges are making admission decisions because from an observer it seems they have a monkey throwing darts at a board.

I will bite and ask a question: are there any need aware schools for high stats kids? Kid has highest rigor from DC private with excellent grades and 1550 SAT. We are fully pay (not big donor) and I don’t think it matters much.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full pay is an incredible huge advantage that must people who are full pay don’t like to admit.

So far it hasn't helped DS in admissions.

Same here.
-parent of a very high stats kid

I think all the “high stats” schools don’t consider full pay bc endowments are so big.

It was confusing for us with 2021 kid. We ran the EFC at his top 2 schools just to confirm we wouldn't receive aid. But 2020 created a financial burden for many colleges. 2020 also affected our income, but if we had submitted FAFSA it reflected 2019 tax return. We made a unified decision that applying without need might make a difference for DS. In the end, it was 50/50. Rejected ED from reach and his top choice, accepted at his 2nd choice after an oddly short deferral (like weeks after). We attribute this short deferral to his solid follow up interest, multiple times. Maybe he would have been accepted anyway during RD round because we wer full pay. Despite full pay, two true safeties offered him merit award 120k/4yr from one, and 108k/4yr at the other with an extra 10k grant (not sure if it was over four years).

Long roundabout to pp questions: he's a happy freshman at choice 2, and he just filled out FAFSA for 2023. He said the school flashed it on their Instagram page telling current undergrads to submit FAFSA by 2/1/22 even if they didn't submit in prior years. CLINCHER: even though they emphatically said in info sessions that merit aid isn't contingent on FAFSA submission, we had to submit it after acceptance to get a pittance of merit aid. Gotcha moment. Schools want to know your ability to pay for four years. Wonder if we'll get a bit of aid. It would certainly help right now as we move money around, but not a detriment if not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I am just as confused as when I started reading this thread. Possibly more. To fill or not to fill....that is the question.

If school is need aware and you want admission more than FA and qualify for FA but can afford school without it, don't ask for FA.
If school is need blind ask if you qualify. No risk.
If you need FA either way and qualify, ask for it. No decision to make there.

That's as simple as it can be.

If I qualify for about $10,000 in aid, is it that simple? I’d like it. Would it really hurt my chances when the amount is so small?

Please refer to the post you respond to for the answer. That's as much detail as you can ever get.