Anonymous wrote:OP - It sounds like you don’t want to fix the problem, since your responses to suggestions are basically “no, that won’t work.” Your child can only gain weight by eating more and/or eating more caloric food. There is no other way to gain weight. Also, how can breastfeeding be going well if your child is not gaining weight and you may have low supply? Objectively, breastfeeding is not going well.

You said that you don’t want to bottle feed because you are afraid your child won’t breastfeed, but your child won’t take formula from a bottle and you don’t want to pump more to bring your supply up because it’s too much work. Did you post this because your doctor won’t validate your decision to starve your child and so you want a bunch of anonymous mommies to validate it?

To fix the problem you need to pump after breastfeeding and supplement. Try to get your supply up and at the same give your child the nutrition s/he needs to develop. If your child won’t take the bottle from you then have your husband try. Also, put your feelings aside. This isn’t about you and you definitely need to practice privileging your kids well-being over your own feelings of inadequacy/issues.

Her baby went was born at 7lbs 1oz and dropped down to high 6lbs and was a little over 8lbs at his 4 week checkup. He is gaining weight. OP said he eats 24oz/day and she gets an extra 4oz from the Haakaa. He is gaining a little slowly but that doesn’t mean anything is wrong. He gained over a 1lb in his first month. That’s a good weight gain. She said she tried 5 different formulas and he refused all of it. She said she is starting triple feeding.

Anonymous wrote:OP - It sounds like you don’t want to fix the problem, since your responses to suggestions are basically “no, that won’t work.” Your child can only gain weight by eating more and/or eating more caloric food. There is no other way to gain weight. Also, how can breastfeeding be going well if your child is not gaining weight and you may have low supply? Objectively, breastfeeding is not going well.

You said that you don’t want to bottle feed because you are afraid your child won’t breastfeed, but your child won’t take formula from a bottle and you don’t want to pump more to bring your supply up because it’s too much work. Did you post this because your doctor won’t validate your decision to starve your child and so you want a bunch of anonymous mommies to validate it?

To fix the problem you need to pump after breastfeeding and supplement. Try to get your supply up and at the same give your child the nutrition s/he needs to develop. If your child won’t take the bottle from you then have your husband try. Also, put your feelings aside. This isn’t about you and you definitely need to practice privileging your kids well-being over your own feelings of inadequacy/issues.

OP tried 5 different formulas and her baby won’t take it. She has said she is going to try triple feeding.

Anonymous wrote:Get the baby on a weightlifting plan. Light weights, nothing heavy--those 1-lb hand weights should do it.

WTF DO YOU MEAN HOW DO I GET THE BABY TO GAIN WEIGHT WITHOUT SUPPLEMENTING? There is literally no appropriate food at this age that is not breastmilk or formula. Give the baby some formula. I promise it will be OK.

OP tried formula and her baby won’t take it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to supplement, or pump after feeds. Those are your two options. I was like you. I cried, it was so hard and sad for me especially being post partum. I asked my pediatrician, “but what happens when babies in third world countries have this issue? Frequent breastfeeding HAS to work eventually!” My ped said, well, those babies usually just get malnourished if there isn’t another woman who can offer him her breast a few times a day.

So, let your baby get malnourished and lose out on precious brain development, or, just pump or use some formula.

Your pediatrician was gentle. It’s not just that they’re malnourished. Why do you think infant mortality is so high? I’m sorry about but no matter what, your baby needs to be fed. You have clean water and you have formula…and/or pumped milk.

That's exactly right, pp, those babies die, and that's what will happen to OP's baby, he's not "sleepy" Op he's not getting adequate nutrition, he's getting dehydrated and his little body is shutting down. The next stop for you is the hospital where your baby will be poked and prodded, and you could possibly lose custody because you were aware he was not gaining weight not getting enough nutrition you were advised to change his feedings and refused to do that.
Is this really want you want for your baby?

And I agree with the advice to see your own doctor your obsession with needing to feed him a certain way to his detriment is a big sign that you are struggling yourself.

THIS. OP your baby is falling asleep in the middle of eating what little he does because he is exhausted and either hungry or dehydrated.

Get in touch with your doctor and explain the formula situation. They can advise all the ways to try to make the formula more palatable. Some babies won't drink formula warmed for example and prefer that the water be room temperature so maybe varying the temperature would make a difference. Also the nipple size makes a difference. Have they checked for tongue tie?

If it was me, I wouldn't be checking with a lactation consultant and would actually go in person to the doctor for assistance. At that age, when a baby doesn't eat enough, and it goes on for a while, it can become an emergency situation quickly and you don't want to end up in that situation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you tried donor milk? In my area there is a good milk bank that has very strict criteria for donors and does some kind of ?Pasteurization process on the milk so it is very safe. (I think they actually ship around the country so I'll provide the link - but obviously local can be easier - https://mothersmilk.org/ They will provide the first 40oz without a prescription - but after that you need a prescription. The coordinator is very helpful if you have questions )
It is expensive but sometimes you can get insurance to cover.
Maybe your baby will take that if you haven't been successful with formulas. (I'm assuming you would be more comfortable with strictly controlled donor milk than peer-to-peer sharing - but that is obviously also an option.)

Peer to peer donor milk? There was a Netflix documentary that tested the donor milk available in those groups. Some of it was no better than sewer water. You have zero idea how that milk was handled or stored, or what diseases the donor may have or their partner may have and passed on to the donor without her knowing (spent any time in the Relationships sub-forum? Lots of cheating men out there). There is ZERO reason to resort to this when safe alternatives are available.

That is why i suggested the milk bank. They feed it to NICU babies - it is quite safe and for NICU babies safer than formula.

Peer-to-peer encompasses a wide range of arrangements some of which are more risky than others. If you get milk from a friend who has been screened and tested you can minimize the risk but I agree there is still increased risk. But if your baby is refusing all formula and it will take your friend's milk then it is potentially a less risky option - particularly if you trust your friend. There is a middle ground between random untested strangers and highly screened and tested and pasteurized donor milk. But yes I would always recommend milk bank milk over any peer to peer for its safety.

NP but those NICU babies need that milk. OP's baby needs either formula or a mom willing to pump and feed breastmilk from a bottle. Leave the milk bank milk for preemies.

OP's baby has refused multiple formulas - it is not as if OP isn't trying hard. Not everyone can pump a lot depending on circumstances - I couldn't although I tried my hardest - and being a single mom made it really really hard.
Her baby NEEDS something to gain weight and if OP can't get him to take formula, using milk bank milk is perfectly appropriate.

She literally has not tried to pump. It's not a matter of cannot, it's a matter of will not.

Another option was to pump and feed, but I don’t want because I don’t think he will want to breastfeed if he is only bottle fed for the next month. It also seems like a lot of work.

Ok. I'm more interested in providing another option to get her baby fed which is of paramount importance than shaming her into pumping. It is so overwhelming. I remember when they told me I should pump 10-12 x a day at the hospital - it felt so impossible and when I got home my baby would scream every time I tried to pump. Pumping sessions while holding a screaming baby produced a minute amount of milk. And needless to say I was far far far away from the recommended pumping sessions per day.

No judgement from me if someone wants to try donor milk after their baby has refused 5 formulas and is not gaining weight. Beyond the first 40 oz need a prescription so their doctor will serve as another determinant as to what is appropriate.

But in terms of her concern about acceptance of breastfeeding of bottle fed - that is one reason I used an supplemental nursing system (SNS). (Other reasons were that it cut down on time it took to supplement. Instead of triple feeding I ended up pumping one breast while I fed with SNS on the other side until my DC was able to transfer milk more efficiently. I wish someone had told me about "parallel pumping" earlier - it would have helped me pump more initially. Doing this compressed the amount of time needed to get her fed and some pumping done.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you tried donor milk? In my area there is a good milk bank that has very strict criteria for donors and does some kind of ?Pasteurization process on the milk so it is very safe. (I think they actually ship around the country so I'll provide the link - but obviously local can be easier - https://mothersmilk.org/ They will provide the first 40oz without a prescription - but after that you need a prescription. The coordinator is very helpful if you have questions )
It is expensive but sometimes you can get insurance to cover.
Maybe your baby will take that if you haven't been successful with formulas. (I'm assuming you would be more comfortable with strictly controlled donor milk than peer-to-peer sharing - but that is obviously also an option.)

Peer to peer donor milk? There was a Netflix documentary that tested the donor milk available in those groups. Some of it was no better than sewer water. You have zero idea how that milk was handled or stored, or what diseases the donor may have or their partner may have and passed on to the donor without her knowing (spent any time in the Relationships sub-forum? Lots of cheating men out there). There is ZERO reason to resort to this when safe alternatives are available.

That is why i suggested the milk bank. They feed it to NICU babies - it is quite safe and for NICU babies safer than formula.

Peer-to-peer encompasses a wide range of arrangements some of which are more risky than others. If you get milk from a friend who has been screened and tested you can minimize the risk but I agree there is still increased risk. But if your baby is refusing all formula and it will take your friend's milk then it is potentially a less risky option - particularly if you trust your friend. There is a middle ground between random untested strangers and highly screened and tested and pasteurized donor milk. But yes I would always recommend milk bank milk over any peer to peer for its safety.

NP but those NICU babies need that milk. OP's baby needs either formula or a mom willing to pump and feed breastmilk from a bottle. Leave the milk bank milk for preemies.

OP's baby has refused multiple formulas - it is not as if OP isn't trying hard. Not everyone can pump a lot depending on circumstances - I couldn't although I tried my hardest - and being a single mom made it really really hard.
Her baby NEEDS something to gain weight and if OP can't get him to take formula, using milk bank milk is perfectly appropriate.

She literally has not tried to pump. It's not a matter of cannot, it's a matter of will not.

Another option was to pump and feed, but I don’t want because I don’t think he will want to breastfeed if he is only bottle fed for the next month. It also seems like a lot of work.

Even if European formula is not ideal I would be trying that at that point. I posted prior in the thread and after much experimentation my baby would only take warm Holle formula from a comotomo bottle. Before that she was in the same situation dropping percentiles and slated for feeding therapy. I have reservations about european formula but at this point you NEED to feed the baby.

Pump in after his first morning feed. Mix that with formula to get him used to it.

Your baby is starving and not getting enough food. You need to get him enough food. That is the number 1 goal. Nursing is not the number 1 goal.

I never produced enough and really pushed myself to try to keep up. In hindsight I made myself miserable and should have stopped with the pumping etc. Formula is awesome. If breastfeeding still works, that's great too! But if it's not working, formula is an amazing option.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you tried donor milk? In my area there is a good milk bank that has very strict criteria for donors and does some kind of ?Pasteurization process on the milk so it is very safe. (I think they actually ship around the country so I'll provide the link - but obviously local can be easier - https://mothersmilk.org/ They will provide the first 40oz without a prescription - but after that you need a prescription. The coordinator is very helpful if you have questions )
It is expensive but sometimes you can get insurance to cover.
Maybe your baby will take that if you haven't been successful with formulas. (I'm assuming you would be more comfortable with strictly controlled donor milk than peer-to-peer sharing - but that is obviously also an option.)

Peer to peer donor milk? There was a Netflix documentary that tested the donor milk available in those groups. Some of it was no better than sewer water. You have zero idea how that milk was handled or stored, or what diseases the donor may have or their partner may have and passed on to the donor without her knowing (spent any time in the Relationships sub-forum? Lots of cheating men out there). There is ZERO reason to resort to this when safe alternatives are available.

That is why i suggested the milk bank. They feed it to NICU babies - it is quite safe and for NICU babies safer than formula.

Peer-to-peer encompasses a wide range of arrangements some of which are more risky than others. If you get milk from a friend who has been screened and tested you can minimize the risk but I agree there is still increased risk. But if your baby is refusing all formula and it will take your friend's milk then it is potentially a less risky option - particularly if you trust your friend. There is a middle ground between random untested strangers and highly screened and tested and pasteurized donor milk. But yes I would always recommend milk bank milk over any peer to peer for its safety.

NP but those NICU babies need that milk. OP's baby needs either formula or a mom willing to pump and feed breastmilk from a bottle. Leave the milk bank milk for preemies.

OP's baby has refused multiple formulas - it is not as if OP isn't trying hard. Not everyone can pump a lot depending on circumstances - I couldn't although I tried my hardest - and being a single mom made it really really hard.
Her baby NEEDS something to gain weight and if OP can't get him to take formula, using milk bank milk is perfectly appropriate.

I will add that milk banks already prioritize NICUs so any milk they have available for babies like OPs is truly available. Let the milk banks determine what they have available after supplying the NICUs and just ask for it. There may be a waiting period if they don't have any immediately available.
Failure to thrive, insufficient lactation are reasons listed by the milk bank for using donor milk. https://www.themilkbank.org/donor-milk
It is really OK to use in a case like OPs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you tried donor milk? In my area there is a good milk bank that has very strict criteria for donors and does some kind of ?Pasteurization process on the milk so it is very safe. (I think they actually ship around the country so I'll provide the link - but obviously local can be easier - https://mothersmilk.org/ They will provide the first 40oz without a prescription - but after that you need a prescription. The coordinator is very helpful if you have questions )
It is expensive but sometimes you can get insurance to cover.
Maybe your baby will take that if you haven't been successful with formulas. (I'm assuming you would be more comfortable with strictly controlled donor milk than peer-to-peer sharing - but that is obviously also an option.)

Peer to peer donor milk? There was a Netflix documentary that tested the donor milk available in those groups. Some of it was no better than sewer water. You have zero idea how that milk was handled or stored, or what diseases the donor may have or their partner may have and passed on to the donor without her knowing (spent any time in the Relationships sub-forum? Lots of cheating men out there). There is ZERO reason to resort to this when safe alternatives are available.

That is why i suggested the milk bank. They feed it to NICU babies - it is quite safe and for NICU babies safer than formula.

Peer-to-peer encompasses a wide range of arrangements some of which are more risky than others. If you get milk from a friend who has been screened and tested you can minimize the risk but I agree there is still increased risk. But if your baby is refusing all formula and it will take your friend's milk then it is potentially a less risky option - particularly if you trust your friend. There is a middle ground between random untested strangers and highly screened and tested and pasteurized donor milk. But yes I would always recommend milk bank milk over any peer to peer for its safety.

NP but those NICU babies need that milk. OP's baby needs either formula or a mom willing to pump and feed breastmilk from a bottle. Leave the milk bank milk for preemies.

OP's baby has refused multiple formulas - it is not as if OP isn't trying hard. Not everyone can pump a lot depending on circumstances - I couldn't although I tried my hardest - and being a single mom made it really really hard.
Her baby NEEDS something to gain weight and if OP can't get him to take formula, using milk bank milk is perfectly appropriate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you tried donor milk? In my area there is a good milk bank that has very strict criteria for donors and does some kind of ?Pasteurization process on the milk so it is very safe. (I think they actually ship around the country so I'll provide the link - but obviously local can be easier - https://mothersmilk.org/ They will provide the first 40oz without a prescription - but after that you need a prescription. The coordinator is very helpful if you have questions )
It is expensive but sometimes you can get insurance to cover.
Maybe your baby will take that if you haven't been successful with formulas. (I'm assuming you would be more comfortable with strictly controlled donor milk than peer-to-peer sharing - but that is obviously also an option.)

Peer to peer donor milk? There was a Netflix documentary that tested the donor milk available in those groups. Some of it was no better than sewer water. You have zero idea how that milk was handled or stored, or what diseases the donor may have or their partner may have and passed on to the donor without her knowing (spent any time in the Relationships sub-forum? Lots of cheating men out there). There is ZERO reason to resort to this when safe alternatives are available.

That is why i suggested the milk bank. They feed it to NICU babies - it is quite safe and for NICU babies safer than formula.

Peer-to-peer encompasses a wide range of arrangements some of which are more risky than others. If you get milk from a friend who has been screened and tested you can minimize the risk but I agree there is still increased risk. But if your baby is refusing all formula and it will take your friend's milk then it is potentially a less risky option - particularly if you trust your friend. There is a middle ground between random untested strangers and highly screened and tested and pasteurized donor milk. But yes I would always recommend milk bank milk over any peer to peer for its safety.

NP but those NICU babies need that milk. OP's baby needs either formula or a mom willing to pump and feed breastmilk from a bottle. Leave the milk bank milk for preemies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you tried donor milk? In my area there is a good milk bank that has very strict criteria for donors and does some kind of ?Pasteurization process on the milk so it is very safe. (I think they actually ship around the country so I'll provide the link - but obviously local can be easier - https://mothersmilk.org/ They will provide the first 40oz without a prescription - but after that you need a prescription. The coordinator is very helpful if you have questions )
It is expensive but sometimes you can get insurance to cover.
Maybe your baby will take that if you haven't been successful with formulas. (I'm assuming you would be more comfortable with strictly controlled donor milk than peer-to-peer sharing - but that is obviously also an option.)

Peer to peer donor milk? There was a Netflix documentary that tested the donor milk available in those groups. Some of it was no better than sewer water. You have zero idea how that milk was handled or stored, or what diseases the donor may have or their partner may have and passed on to the donor without her knowing (spent any time in the Relationships sub-forum? Lots of cheating men out there). There is ZERO reason to resort to this when safe alternatives are available.

That is why i suggested the milk bank. They feed it to NICU babies - it is quite safe and for NICU babies safer than formula.

Peer-to-peer encompasses a wide range of arrangements some of which are more risky than others. If you get milk from a friend who has been screened and tested you can minimize the risk but I agree there is still increased risk. But if your baby is refusing all formula and it will take your friend's milk then it is potentially a less risky option - particularly if you trust your friend. There is a middle ground between random untested strangers and highly screened and tested and pasteurized donor milk. But yes I would always recommend milk bank milk over any peer to peer for its safety.

Anonymous wrote:Have you tried donor milk? In my area there is a good milk bank that has very strict criteria for donors and does some kind of ?Pasteurization process on the milk so it is very safe. (I think they actually ship around the country so I'll provide the link - but obviously local can be easier - https://mothersmilk.org/ They will provide the first 40oz without a prescription - but after that you need a prescription. The coordinator is very helpful if you have questions )
It is expensive but sometimes you can get insurance to cover.
Maybe your baby will take that if you haven't been successful with formulas. (I'm assuming you would be more comfortable with strictly controlled donor milk than peer-to-peer sharing - but that is obviously also an option.)

Peer to peer donor milk? There was a Netflix documentary that tested the donor milk available in those groups. Some of it was no better than sewer water. You have zero idea how that milk was handled or stored, or what diseases the donor may have or their partner may have and passed on to the donor without her knowing (spent any time in the Relationships sub-forum? Lots of cheating men out there). There is ZERO reason to resort to this when safe alternatives are available.

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I suggest contacting LaLeche League for tips.

La Leche League pushes breastfeeding at all costs. Not what OP needs right now. I have a friend who thought she could use their virtual groups as support and they told her that a newborn (as in, days old), who was nursing for 5 minutes at a time and then sleeping for 5 hour stretches was “normal”. Baby was jaundiced and underweight by her one week appointment.

Anonymous wrote:What if you breast feed more often? Breastfeeding is supply and demand. The more you nurse the more milk you will produce. That’s what I would do. Feed the baby every twenty minutes.

This doesn't always work if there are supply and/or transfer issues. I did feed my baby around the clock for 6 weeks and it wasn't enough. Worse it actually negatively impacted my supply because even though people told me her latch was ok - she really wasn't transferring effectively. I just though because she was nursing all the time it was ok - but it wasn't - she wasn't gaining enough weight and she wasn't sucking effectively enough to build my supply. Pumping was necessary and improving her ability to transfer was also necessary (and that did improve my supply - because I don't respond very well to pumping.

I think this is dangerous advice here. OP should find a supplement that works for her baby (hence my pp about donor milk if formula isn't working.)