Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There genuinely isn't a reason. That's why it's so odd. My pet theory is that it's because she's used to not having family around and feels some jealousy on behalf of her own far away parent. But who knows.

Brining us back to the original point of the thread… women just don’t want to like their SILs /DILs and just make up sh*t in their head so they can dislike them, rather than placing the blame on their own brothers/sons.

There “genuinely isn’t a reason” ***that you know of,*** from your perspective as not-your-brother. Wow, imagine that: he might well have reasons he doesn’t care to connect that much with his parents that you aren’t privy to, what with you are not your brother and all.

But he does connect with them, on his own, as I said, with the kids when his wife is out of town, and every few months with the whole family. They're not estranged, they just rarely make time with the result being that their kids barely know their local grandparents. You seem to want to keep inventing facts not in evidence to support your preferred narrative. I have placed plenty of blame on my brother throughout this thread. What I object to is the idea that the woman in this situation bears no responsibility for her own part in the family dynamic. I don't have time to keep arguing back and forth on this and repeating myself so this will be my last response, but you should examine why you think a wife has no responsibility for her own affirmative choices in the context of her relationship with her ILs. I find that position strange and patronizing.

I really dislike one of my DH’s sisters (and the feeling is mutual). He has had issues with her in the past, but they have been on good terms for the last few years and enjoy each other’s company in small doses at least. He talks to her on the phone and sees her regularly whenever he likes (SIL is single, never married). He takes the kids to see her sometimes- or they plan things together occasionally with the kids- as well. This is all on his own with no involvement from me. I only see SIL at whole extended family occasions usually. If DH wanted me to see her more regularly than that I’d say nooo thanks. 😂 Why wouldn’t your brother do the same with your parents? Even if SIL doesn’t like your parents for some reason? Why doesn’t he see them regularly (and not just when she is out of town)? Why doesn’t he stop by their house with the kids on occasion? They are 10 miles away. Surely he takes the kids to the park or on outings on his own at times (even when his wife is in town). It would not be difficult for your brother to do this. You honestly think his wife is “forbidding” this in some way? Seems highly doubtful. That is what people are trying to tell you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There genuinely isn't a reason. That's why it's so odd. My pet theory is that it's because she's used to not having family around and feels some jealousy on behalf of her own far away parent. But who knows.

Brining us back to the original point of the thread… women just don’t want to like their SILs /DILs and just make up sh*t in their head so they can dislike them, rather than placing the blame on their own brothers/sons.

There “genuinely isn’t a reason” ***that you know of,*** from your perspective as not-your-brother. Wow, imagine that: he might well have reasons he doesn’t care to connect that much with his parents that you aren’t privy to, what with you are not your brother and all.

But he does connect with them, on his own, as I said, with the kids when his wife is out of town, and every few months with the whole family. They're not estranged, they just rarely make time with the result being that their kids barely know their local grandparents. You seem to want to keep inventing facts not in evidence to support your preferred narrative. I have placed plenty of blame on my brother throughout this thread. What I object to is the idea that the woman in this situation bears no responsibility for her own part in the family dynamic. I don't have time to keep arguing back and forth on this and repeating myself so this will be my last response, but you should examine why you think a wife has no responsibility for her own affirmative choices in the context of her relationship with her ILs. I find that position strange and patronizing.

This you? “ They live 20 minutes apart and see each other maybe 4 times a year.” …?

So which is it…he rushes the kids to reunite with their amazing grandparents every chance he gets, or he is so disinterested in them that he throws them a bone MAYBE four times a year? Pick a lane. Which is it?

You did contradict yourself quite a bit there. At first you say they see each other, and I quote, “maybe 4 times a year.”

Then you conveniently move the goalposts and say that he connects with them when his wife is out of town AND “every few months with the whole family.”

At least be consistent with your fantasy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There genuinely isn't a reason. That's why it's so odd. My pet theory is that it's because she's used to not having family around and feels some jealousy on behalf of her own far away parent. But who knows.

Brining us back to the original point of the thread… women just don’t want to like their SILs /DILs and just make up sh*t in their head so they can dislike them, rather than placing the blame on their own brothers/sons.

There “genuinely isn’t a reason” ***that you know of,*** from your perspective as not-your-brother. Wow, imagine that: he might well have reasons he doesn’t care to connect that much with his parents that you aren’t privy to, what with you are not your brother and all.

But he does connect with them, on his own, as I said, with the kids when his wife is out of town, and every few months with the whole family. They're not estranged, they just rarely make time with the result being that their kids barely know their local grandparents. You seem to want to keep inventing facts not in evidence to support your preferred narrative. I have placed plenty of blame on my brother throughout this thread. What I object to is the idea that the woman in this situation bears no responsibility for her own part in the family dynamic. I don't have time to keep arguing back and forth on this and repeating myself so this will be my last response, but you should examine why you think a wife has no responsibility for her own affirmative choices in the context of her relationship with her ILs. I find that position strange and patronizing.

This you? “ They live 20 minutes apart and see each other maybe 4 times a year.” …?

So which is it…he rushes the kids to reunite with their amazing grandparents every chance he gets, or he is so disinterested in them that he throws them a bone MAYBE four times a year? Pick a lane. Which is it?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There genuinely isn't a reason. That's why it's so odd. My pet theory is that it's because she's used to not having family around and feels some jealousy on behalf of her own far away parent. But who knows.

Brining us back to the original point of the thread… women just don’t want to like their SILs /DILs and just make up sh*t in their head so they can dislike them, rather than placing the blame on their own brothers/sons.

There “genuinely isn’t a reason” ***that you know of,*** from your perspective as not-your-brother. Wow, imagine that: he might well have reasons he doesn’t care to connect that much with his parents that you aren’t privy to, what with you are not your brother and all.

But he does connect with them, on his own, as I said, with the kids when his wife is out of town, and every few months with the whole family. They're not estranged, they just rarely make time with the result being that their kids barely know their local grandparents. You seem to want to keep inventing facts not in evidence to support your preferred narrative. I have placed plenty of blame on my brother throughout this thread. What I object to is the idea that the woman in this situation bears no responsibility for her own part in the family dynamic. I don't have time to keep arguing back and forth on this and repeating myself so this will be my last response, but you should examine why you think a wife has no responsibility for her own affirmative choices in the context of her relationship with her ILs. I find that position strange and patronizing.

Not OP, but maybe Because a wife is not the gatekeeper to her husband’s relationships? Because the husband has agency to make his own decisions. Because we need to stop blaming women when men are inept, whether it is in the workplace or at home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There genuinely isn't a reason. That's why it's so odd. My pet theory is that it's because she's used to not having family around and feels some jealousy on behalf of her own far away parent. But who knows.

Brining us back to the original point of the thread… women just don’t want to like their SILs /DILs and just make up sh*t in their head so they can dislike them, rather than placing the blame on their own brothers/sons.

There “genuinely isn’t a reason” ***that you know of,*** from your perspective as not-your-brother. Wow, imagine that: he might well have reasons he doesn’t care to connect that much with his parents that you aren’t privy to, what with you are not your brother and all.

But he does connect with them, on his own, as I said, with the kids when his wife is out of town, and every few months with the whole family. They're not estranged, they just rarely make time with the result being that their kids barely know their local grandparents. You seem to want to keep inventing facts not in evidence to support your preferred narrative. I have placed plenty of blame on my brother throughout this thread. What I object to is the idea that the woman in this situation bears no responsibility for her own part in the family dynamic. I don't have time to keep arguing back and forth on this and repeating myself so this will be my last response, but you should examine why you think a wife has no responsibility for her own affirmative choices in the context of her relationship with her ILs. I find that position strange and patronizing.

Anonymous wrote:

There genuinely isn't a reason. That's why it's so odd. My pet theory is that it's because she's used to not having family around and feels some jealousy on behalf of her own far away parent. But who knows.

Brining us back to the original point of the thread… women just don’t want to like their SILs /DILs and just make up sh*t in their head so they can dislike them, rather than placing the blame on their own brothers/sons.

There “genuinely isn’t a reason” ***that you know of,*** from your perspective as not-your-brother. Wow, imagine that: he might well have reasons he doesn’t care to connect that much with his parents that you aren’t privy to, what with you are not your brother and all.

There genuinely isn't a reason. That's why it's so odd. My pet theory is that it's because she's used to not having family around and feels some jealousy on behalf of her own far away parent. But who knows.

Brining us back to the original point of the thread… women just don’t want to like their SILs /DILs and just make up sh*t in their head so they can dislike them, rather than placing the blame on their own brothers/sons.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the text reads as follows:

Grandparents - Hi my adoring son. we would love to invite ourselves over to your house for a visit

Harpy wife - This is the wife, NO

More like "Hi Larlo, we'd love to see the kids; is there a time in the next few weeks that works?"

Response from wife's phone: "I saw that you asked Larlo about times to get together. We're really busy in the next few weeks and need to focus on family time when we're not busy. Maybe another month." [Repeat in 4-6 weeks] She's not aggressive, just evasive. I am sure you won't believe this because it doesn't fit your preexisting narrative, but there are truly no facts that would make this normal. My parents are easygoing, nonjudgmental, and eager to be helpful. SIL is not a harpy, but she has chosen to stand in the way of this relationship for reasons that are opaque to me. It is what it is.

If that’s true (doubtful) YOUR BROTHER has taught her that she can behave that way. He co-signed that behavior. If he wanted to see you more, or wanted his kids to see you more, that’s how it would be. The end.

So he is responsible for her behavior as well as his own? And, for the seemingly 100th time, this isn't about me. We effectively don't have a relationship. We live far apart and I don't waste my time on people who don't reciprocate. We exchange kid birthday gifts and that's it. At some point my parents will probably move closer to us and my brother and SIL will have no family. That won't be beneficial to their kids but it's hard to see this playing out any other way.

Why would seeing people their parents don’t like/care about “benefit” their kids? Why? Simply because of the titles of Grandma and Grandpa? If their own son doesn’t like them much, why should the grandkids “benefit” from time spent with those particular grandparents?

It's generally beneficial to have more people in your life who care about you. My SIL is estranged from one of her parents and the other one lives far away so they only see each other in person every few years. My brother doesn't dislike my parents and does see them from time to time on his own. He's just unwilling to make waves in his primary relationship. Do you find it beneficial for kids to have no relationship with loving relatives who live nearby? Odd position.

It’s only beneficial if all parties agree that the grandparents are “loving” and positive influences. Because Family is not a reason for closeness. You seem convinced that your brother has a healthy relationship with your parents, but I would say a lot of evidence points to the contrary. That doesn’t necessarily mean they were bad parents to him, but…well, it doesn’t really make the case that he particularly thinks they are so beneficial to his kids. If closeness with them was so darn beneficial, he’d value the relationship. He clearly doesn’t. At all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the text reads as follows:

Grandparents - Hi my adoring son. we would love to invite ourselves over to your house for a visit

Harpy wife - This is the wife, NO

More like "Hi Larlo, we'd love to see the kids; is there a time in the next few weeks that works?"

Response from wife's phone: "I saw that you asked Larlo about times to get together. We're really busy in the next few weeks and need to focus on family time when we're not busy. Maybe another month." [Repeat in 4-6 weeks] She's not aggressive, just evasive. I am sure you won't believe this because it doesn't fit your preexisting narrative, but there are truly no facts that would make this normal. My parents are easygoing, nonjudgmental, and eager to be helpful. SIL is not a harpy, but she has chosen to stand in the way of this relationship for reasons that are opaque to me. It is what it is.

If that’s true (doubtful) YOUR BROTHER has taught her that she can behave that way. He co-signed that behavior. If he wanted to see you more, or wanted his kids to see you more, that’s how it would be. The end.

So he is responsible for her behavior as well as his own? And, for the seemingly 100th time, this isn't about me. We effectively don't have a relationship. We live far apart and I don't waste my time on people who don't reciprocate. We exchange kid birthday gifts and that's it. At some point my parents will probably move closer to us and my brother and SIL will have no family. That won't be beneficial to their kids but it's hard to see this playing out any other way.

Why would seeing people their parents don’t like/care about “benefit” their kids? Why? Simply because of the titles of Grandma and Grandpa? If their own son doesn’t like them much, why should the grandkids “benefit” from time spent with those particular grandparents?

It's generally beneficial to have more people in your life who care about you. My SIL is estranged from one of her parents and the other one lives far away so they only see each other in person every few years. My brother doesn't dislike my parents and does see them from time to time on his own. He's just unwilling to make waves in his primary relationship. Do you find it beneficial for kids to have no relationship with loving relatives who live nearby? Odd position.

So SIL doesn’t have local family either? I have to say: it would be unusual to turn down free childcare from nice, lovely local grandparents (even if you did not like them personally). JMO. Something is wrong...there have to be problems between your parents and your SIL and/or brother.

I don’t much like spending time my ILs (they live a plane ride away, and yes we do see them 1-2 times/yr). But we lived an hour away from them for 2yrs and I let them babysit and spend time with the kids practically whenever. If was a win-win for everyone. For me to “block” that (as you accuse SIL of doing) would have take a lot more than “meh, I don’t personally like them”.....just saying.

There genuinely isn't a reason. That's why it's so odd. My pet theory is that it's because she's used to not having family around and feels some jealousy on behalf of her own far away parent. But who knows.

Anonymous wrote:

So he is responsible for her behavior as well as his own? And, for the seemingly 100th time, this isn't about me. We effectively don't have a relationship. We live far apart and I don't waste my time on people who don't reciprocate. We exchange kid birthday gifts and that's it. At some point my parents will probably move closer to us and my brother and SIL will have no family. That won't be beneficial to their kids but it's hard to see this playing out any other way.

This is hilarious OP, considering you’re basically saying she is responsible for *his* behaviour by being obstructionist. It doesn’t sound like he communicates with all of you at all. Is that her too?

Why do you insist she has no agency? The issue isn't that she isn't communicating and making plans bon her husband's behalf, it's that she inserts herself into conversations between him and his parents. He is responsible for not simply ignoring her wishes and making it happen, but why is he responsible for her choices too? I'm genuinely curious about this mindset. Maybe it's because I have no problem being the bad guy when I need to be in my life but I don't get this. The vast majority of the time I say yes to seeing my ILs when they ask, but when it doesn't work for me (e.g. recently when I had too much going on at work and didn't want to host) I say no and I own that. It would be ridiculous for them to hold my DH responsible for not forcing the issue over my objections. I have my own relationship with them because we've been in each other's lives for 20 years. My DH deals with the logistics, but it's bizarre to act like I am not part of the family dynamic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the text reads as follows:

Grandparents - Hi my adoring son. we would love to invite ourselves over to your house for a visit

Harpy wife - This is the wife, NO

More like "Hi Larlo, we'd love to see the kids; is there a time in the next few weeks that works?"

Response from wife's phone: "I saw that you asked Larlo about times to get together. We're really busy in the next few weeks and need to focus on family time when we're not busy. Maybe another month." [Repeat in 4-6 weeks] She's not aggressive, just evasive. I am sure you won't believe this because it doesn't fit your preexisting narrative, but there are truly no facts that would make this normal. My parents are easygoing, nonjudgmental, and eager to be helpful. SIL is not a harpy, but she has chosen to stand in the way of this relationship for reasons that are opaque to me. It is what it is.

If that’s true (doubtful) YOUR BROTHER has taught her that she can behave that way. He co-signed that behavior. If he wanted to see you more, or wanted his kids to see you more, that’s how it would be. The end.

So he is responsible for her behavior as well as his own? And, for the seemingly 100th time, this isn't about me. We effectively don't have a relationship. We live far apart and I don't waste my time on people who don't reciprocate. We exchange kid birthday gifts and that's it. At some point my parents will probably move closer to us and my brother and SIL will have no family. That won't be beneficial to their kids but it's hard to see this playing out any other way.

Why would seeing people their parents don’t like/care about “benefit” their kids? Why? Simply because of the titles of Grandma and Grandpa? If their own son doesn’t like them much, why should the grandkids “benefit” from time spent with those particular grandparents?

It's generally beneficial to have more people in your life who care about you. My SIL is estranged from one of her parents and the other one lives far away so they only see each other in person every few years. My brother doesn't dislike my parents and does see them from time to time on his own. He's just unwilling to make waves in his primary relationship. Do you find it beneficial for kids to have no relationship with loving relatives who live nearby? Odd position.

So SIL doesn’t have local family either? I have to say: it would be unusual to turn down free childcare from nice, lovely local grandparents (even if you did not like them personally). JMO. Something is wrong...there have to be problems between your parents and your SIL and/or brother.

I don’t much like spending time my ILs (they live a plane ride away, and yes we do see them 1-2 times/yr). But we lived an hour away from them for 2yrs and I let them babysit and spend time with the kids practically whenever. If was a win-win for everyone. For me to “block” that (as you accuse SIL of doing) would have take a lot more than “meh, I don’t personally like them”.....just saying.

Anonymous wrote:I think part of it is that the sons/brothers don't organize/plan anything. At least, this is the dynamic in my marriage. My husband will say vaguely "we should go see MIL soon" but then he takes no steps to make it happen. I could take upon myself to organize it but they live on the west coast and it's a massive hassle to travel there in the best of times, not to mention the dangers of cross-country flights with two unvaccinated kids. So I choose not to make it a priority, and we haven't been out there in a couple of years.

I'm pretty sure MIL blames me for the lack of visits, because she knows I am the one who organizes our travel for the most part. And that's true, but if my husband wanted to step up and do the planning, he could. Anyway, I don't really care that she blames me bc...we don't see her that often. Lol.

All of this. In fact, did I write this in my sleep or have a SIL I didn’t know about? Even if I do organize a trip to ILs, it’s never right. “You’re only coming for 5 days? That’s not long enough.” “You need to fly into a different airport.” “Why are you renting a car, we will drive everywhere.” (That leads to being trapped in their house the entire time. Fool me once ILs! Plus they don’t have big enough cars to fit the 4 of us plus them so going anywhere is a huge production.) “Why did you stop at the store on your way here, we have 3 oranges, 6 slices of bread, and 3 pieces of lunch meat, that’s plenty for all 6 of us to eat.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the text reads as follows:

Grandparents - Hi my adoring son. we would love to invite ourselves over to your house for a visit

Harpy wife - This is the wife, NO

More like "Hi Larlo, we'd love to see the kids; is there a time in the next few weeks that works?"

Response from wife's phone: "I saw that you asked Larlo about times to get together. We're really busy in the next few weeks and need to focus on family time when we're not busy. Maybe another month." [Repeat in 4-6 weeks] She's not aggressive, just evasive. I am sure you won't believe this because it doesn't fit your preexisting narrative, but there are truly no facts that would make this normal. My parents are easygoing, nonjudgmental, and eager to be helpful. SIL is not a harpy, but she has chosen to stand in the way of this relationship for reasons that are opaque to me. It is what it is.

If that’s true (doubtful) YOUR BROTHER has taught her that she can behave that way. He co-signed that behavior. If he wanted to see you more, or wanted his kids to see you more, that’s how it would be. The end.

So he is responsible for her behavior as well as his own? And, for the seemingly 100th time, this isn't about me. We effectively don't have a relationship. We live far apart and I don't waste my time on people who don't reciprocate. We exchange kid birthday gifts and that's it. At some point my parents will probably move closer to us and my brother and SIL will have no family. That won't be beneficial to their kids but it's hard to see this playing out any other way.

Why would seeing people their parents don’t like/care about “benefit” their kids? Why? Simply because of the titles of Grandma and Grandpa? If their own son doesn’t like them much, why should the grandkids “benefit” from time spent with those particular grandparents?

It's generally beneficial to have more people in your life who care about you. My SIL is estranged from one of her parents and the other one lives far away so they only see each other in person every few years. My brother doesn't dislike my parents and does see them from time to time on his own. He's just unwilling to make waves in his primary relationship. Do you find it beneficial for kids to have no relationship with loving relatives who live nearby? Odd position.

So he is responsible for her behavior as well as his own? And, for the seemingly 100th time, this isn't about me. We effectively don't have a relationship. We live far apart and I don't waste my time on people who don't reciprocate. We exchange kid birthday gifts and that's it. At some point my parents will probably move closer to us and my brother and SIL will have no family. That won't be beneficial to their kids but it's hard to see this playing out any other way.

This is hilarious OP, considering you’re basically saying she is responsible for *his* behaviour by being obstructionist. It doesn’t sound like he communicates with all of you at all. Is that her too?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the text reads as follows:

Grandparents - Hi my adoring son. we would love to invite ourselves over to your house for a visit

Harpy wife - This is the wife, NO

More like "Hi Larlo, we'd love to see the kids; is there a time in the next few weeks that works?"

Response from wife's phone: "I saw that you asked Larlo about times to get together. We're really busy in the next few weeks and need to focus on family time when we're not busy. Maybe another month." [Repeat in 4-6 weeks] She's not aggressive, just evasive. I am sure you won't believe this because it doesn't fit your preexisting narrative, but there are truly no facts that would make this normal. My parents are easygoing, nonjudgmental, and eager to be helpful. SIL is not a harpy, but she has chosen to stand in the way of this relationship for reasons that are opaque to me. It is what it is.

If that’s true (doubtful) YOUR BROTHER has taught her that she can behave that way. He co-signed that behavior. If he wanted to see you more, or wanted his kids to see you more, that’s how it would be. The end.

So he is responsible for her behavior as well as his own? And, for the seemingly 100th time, this isn't about me. We effectively don't have a relationship. We live far apart and I don't waste my time on people who don't reciprocate. We exchange kid birthday gifts and that's it. At some point my parents will probably move closer to us and my brother and SIL will have no family. That won't be beneficial to their kids but it's hard to see this playing out any other way.

Why would seeing people their parents don’t like/care about “benefit” their kids? Why? Simply because of the titles of Grandma and Grandpa? If their own son doesn’t like them much, why should the grandkids “benefit” from time spent with those particular grandparents?