Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that drug addiction is an illness but I really don't feel bad for this woman. Maybe she can get clean in jail. My aunt was a NICU nurse and worked with too many inconsolable babies who were suffering, screaming and shaking from the symptoms of drug withdrawal. Her stories about these babies whom almost never had visitors and would often end up in foster care was heartbreaking.

I don’t particularly feel bad for her either, but the implications for this sentence are terrifying.

This. I’m really disturbed that people who consider themselves to be pro-choice don’t realize how horrific this decision is. I’m barely pro-choice myself and I can’t even believe this judgement has been allowed to stand.

Anonymous wrote:I understand that drug addiction is an illness but I really don't feel bad for this woman. Maybe she can get clean in jail. My aunt was a NICU nurse and worked with too many inconsolable babies who were suffering, screaming and shaking from the symptoms of drug withdrawal. Her stories about these babies whom almost never had visitors and would often end up in foster care was heartbreaking.

I don’t particularly feel bad for her either, but the implications for this sentence are terrifying.

Anonymous wrote:
This. A social worker who has worked in foster care, homeless and in other areas. Someone who is a serious addict isn't going to get scared straight like that and will not get clean until they are ready. Its a waste of prison resources.

What's a waste of prison resources? Imprisoning her or offering treatment?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And also this will make it so that women who do want substance abuse treatment while pregnant be scared to get it.

No it won't.

I am a social worker who has worked in addiction and yes, it will....

I am a prison administrator. No, it will not.

This. A social worker who has worked in foster care, homeless and in other areas. Someone who is a serious addict isn't going to get scared straight like that and will not get clean until they are ready. Its a waste of prison resources.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry not much sympathy. I was just pregnant. There were so many resources if you were a smoker, drug addict or alcoholic to get you sober. There were hotlines to call and lots of free resources. This baby shouldn’t have had to suffer. I’m very pro choice and she should have had an abortion.

She could have had an abortion. It would have been legal. So how does she get four years in jail for having the same end result as an abortion? I'll note that I'm not "very pro-choice". I'm very ambivalent in my feelings about it, but I prefer to live in a society where it is legal than one where it is not. I don't really understand how someone could call themselves "very pro choice" and not be horrified by this case.

It’s legal to have an abortion but it must be performed or prescribed by a medical doctor. It’s illegal to give yourself an abortion without medical guidance in most states.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that people are freaked out but I also think there needs to be some common sense here. No, you shouldn’t do drugs while pregnant, because it can impact that child for the rest of their life. It shouldn’t be anything goes, and obviously there’s a big difference between eating sushi and doing meth.

FWIW, I think men should also be held accountable. Like if they expose a pregnant woman to an STD.

There is no child. There was a miscarriage. There is no evidence that the miscarriage was due to her drug use. The medical examiner did not declare her drug use to be a cause.

THIS. The bold. The district attorney assigned a cause of death. The medical examiner did NOT say the drug use was the cause of the miscarriage but did say that other factors like genetic anomaly could have been causes. Yet the district attorney is declaring this woman's drug use murdered the child.

People should be "freaked out," PP above, that a lawyer is acting as if he or she has the right to determine a cause of death and then press charges based on that. We should freak out that it's somehow OK for a medical examiner to be overridden in the way that it's happened here. Because, precedent. And if you all think that "Well, she was a drug abuser, and I'm not, so, whatever...." you are extremely short-sighted indeed. Are you really fine with the idea of medical examiners' conclusions being brushed aside like this?

This. More evidence of the government getting inside my doctor’s office with me where they do NOT belong. This is a giant slippery slope. They go after poor women with all the “bad choices! Drugs’ But the b-a-b-i-e-s,” and before we know it, the power of state and federal governments will completely take over our bodies. And I wonder what else they will try to require? Stay at home so you don’t endanger your fetus at your manual labor job. Or white collar jobs can be stressful, so you should leave that one, too. Had a glass of wine? Drove a car? Went on a business trip and plane had turbulence? Women make too many risky decisions with a fetus inside - the government must take over. I hate that I’m passing a world to my daughters that feels so bleak and dangerous.

Anonymous wrote:I am so freaking glad I am done being fertile.

Me too, but some of us have daughters who are just starting their adult lives. I fear for what my 20-year-old might have to face.

And at the same time as this case (and yes, other earlier ones like it), we have a state allowing ANYONE to enforce a draconian anti-abortion law. Total strangers can involve themselves in the most intimate parts of a woman's life, point a finger at her, and cause her lifelong harm, with no knowledge of her as a human being.

There are those out there who truly want women to be incubators and who want to exercise the most invasive intrusions into personal privacy to ensure that women have no choices other than to carry all fetuses to term, regardless of rape, incest, massive fetal abnormalities, and the many other utterly private circumstances under which a woman might need or want an abortion. These are frightening times yet so many don't want to see that, including many on this thread. As long as they themselves are fine they don't want to know about anyone else or care about any bigger picture.

I truly hope all those brushing this off, and all those who believe every fetus must be born, are also lined up to adopt a child. I doubt it, though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that people are freaked out but I also think there needs to be some common sense here. No, you shouldn’t do drugs while pregnant, because it can impact that child for the rest of their life. It shouldn’t be anything goes, and obviously there’s a big difference between eating sushi and doing meth.

FWIW, I think men should also be held accountable. Like if they expose a pregnant woman to an STD.

There is no child. There was a miscarriage. There is no evidence that the miscarriage was due to her drug use. The medical examiner did not declare her drug use to be a cause.

THIS. The bold. The district attorney assigned a cause of death. The medical examiner did NOT say the drug use was the cause of the miscarriage but did say that other factors like genetic anomaly could have been causes. Yet the district attorney is declaring this woman's drug use murdered the child.

People should be "freaked out," PP above, that a lawyer is acting as if he or she has the right to determine a cause of death and then press charges based on that. We should freak out that it's somehow OK for a medical examiner to be overridden in the way that it's happened here. Because, precedent. And if you all think that "Well, she was a drug abuser, and I'm not, so, whatever...." you are extremely short-sighted indeed. Are you really fine with the idea of medical examiners' conclusions being brushed aside like this?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And also this will make it so that women who do want substance abuse treatment while pregnant be scared to get it.

No it won't.

I am a social worker who has worked in addiction and yes, it will....

I am a prison administrator. No, it will not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And also this will make it so that women who do want substance abuse treatment while pregnant be scared to get it.

No it won't.

I am a social worker who has worked in addiction and yes, it will....

Anonymous wrote:I get that people are freaked out but I also think there needs to be some common sense here. No, you shouldn’t do drugs while pregnant, because it can impact that child for the rest of their life. It shouldn’t be anything goes, and obviously there’s a big difference between eating sushi and doing meth.

FWIW, I think men should also be held accountable. Like if they expose a pregnant woman to an STD.

No sh7t. The issue here is that she had a miscarriage and they are charging her with murder not just doing drugs.

This was already an issue in Mississippi in 2013

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/05/buckhalter-mississippi-stillbirth-manslaughter/

Anonymous wrote:I get that people are freaked out but I also think there needs to be some common sense here. No, you shouldn’t do drugs while pregnant, because it can impact that child for the rest of their life. It shouldn’t be anything goes, and obviously there’s a big difference between eating sushi and doing meth.

FWIW, I think men should also be held accountable. Like if they expose a pregnant woman to an STD.

There is no child. There was a miscarriage. There is no evidence that the miscarriage was due to her drug use. The medical examiner did not declare her drug use to be a cause.

Because it's Lawton, that's why. You'd only understand if you lived here.

I get that people are freaked out but I also think there needs to be some common sense here. No, you shouldn’t do drugs while pregnant, because it can impact that child for the rest of their life. It shouldn’t be anything goes, and obviously there’s a big difference between eating sushi and doing meth.

FWIW, I think men should also be held accountable. Like if they expose a pregnant woman to an STD.