Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Well-educated" = financially well off. The same as when women say they want a man who is "ambitious".

Not necessarily; you can be well educated without having made your money yet. Plenty of people marry potential, it’s more important that the guy have a plan and the ability to follow it.

“Well educated” = I can take him to work events and he can have intelligent conversations with my colleagues and clients. He will fit in at the school, pool, club, neighborhood I aspire to be part of, he will value education and want the same things for our kids so that we can pass on our privilege and generational wealth, ideally he has decent earning potential and a chosen career path.

I know some well educated men in their late 30s who still ride a skateboard to their barista job so that they can focus on their art or their band in the evenings. I know some well educated men who have massive debt and work in the arts or at non-profits because that’s their passion. I don’t think that’s who women are referring to when they say well educated.

What is an "intelligent conversation " to you? Do you believe someone who didn't go to college would talk about video games football and things?

DP. I want someone who understands my literary and historical allusions and has a cosmopolitan viewpoint that goes beyond their own experience and provides context to their views of current events. I know plenty of intelligent and well-educated men who also talk about sports and video games (though not to me generally). It's not about refusing someone who talks about X, Y, and Z; it's about wanting someone who can also talk about other things that are generally only taught through a formal education. I'm well-educated and spent time this week talking about Britney Spears. But I also spent time talking about different economic theories and how they have historically been interpreted through the political process and how Camus' The Plague anticipated some of the social response we've seen during COVID.

Anonymous wrote:I agree OP. Neither my spouse or i have degrees. We live ineastern moco, our one kid goes to a Christian private, we travel, have newish cars, can afford to take care of our pets, eat out etc…..I actually wonder the same thing about people looking for nannies. They want newborn nannies with degrees. It doesn’t take a degree to love and care for a baby.

Yup you don’t get it, and that’s ok, we are not all looking for the same things and the same qualities in a life partner.

Well educated requirement for me is not a status thing, has no link to income. I want a partner who has a rich intellectual life, who reads, who is curious and knowledgeable, yes it matters if he studied philosophy and history, if he has a good education and culture to begin with, so we can spend our life together discussing ideas and topics that matter to us and continue learning together.

There are a lot of people out there who don’t have a fancy degree and are well educated, for some reasons/circumstances they couldn’t go to college even but they are self taught, they read a lot, accumulated knowledge on their own. That could fulfill my well educated requirement.

On the other hand the rich smart self made man who enjoys spending his free time watching sports on TV is not for me.

(And before I get any criticism on my writing : I am French and my English is not perfect)

It’s weird that people are digging into what well-educated means, as though when people are talking about their ideal partners that’s the only thing on their list.

My ideal partner woukd be well educated (although I would probably just say “educated,”), but also financially literate, able to carry on a good conversation, curious about the world, intelligent, kind, down-to earth, etc. Well-educated is separate from these things even though there is going to be some overlap.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Well-educated" = financially well off. The same as when women say they want a man who is "ambitious".

Not necessarily; you can be well educated without having made your money yet. Plenty of people marry potential, it’s more important that the guy have a plan and the ability to follow it.

“Well educated” = I can take him to work events and he can have intelligent conversations with my colleagues and clients. He will fit in at the school, pool, club, neighborhood I aspire to be part of, he will value education and want the same things for our kids so that we can pass on our privilege and generational wealth, ideally he has decent earning potential and a chosen career path.

I know some well educated men in their late 30s who still ride a skateboard to their barista job so that they can focus on their art or their band in the evenings. I know some well educated men who have massive debt and work in the arts or at non-profits because that’s their passion. I don’t think that’s who women are referring to when they say well educated.

What is an "intelligent conversation " to you? Do you believe someone who didn't go to college would talk about video games football and things?

I think less educated people tend to ask educated people about brain - picking type things, and the more educated people get exhausted by it.

Anonymous wrote:Being well-educated is an inherent good in my view. I want to be with someone who is interested in and has a good and reasonably deep understanding of history, literature, other cultures, philosophical concepts, etc. I can make my own money. I want someone cultured and with whom I can have interesting conversations, someone with a background similar to my own. Fortunately I have that in my DH.

Key phrase. The relationship is not one way and boring.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Well-educated" = financially well off. The same as when women say they want a man who is "ambitious".

Not necessarily; you can be well educated without having made your money yet. Plenty of people marry potential, it’s more important that the guy have a plan and the ability to follow it.

“Well educated” = I can take him to work events and he can have intelligent conversations with my colleagues and clients. He will fit in at the school, pool, club, neighborhood I aspire to be part of, he will value education and want the same things for our kids so that we can pass on our privilege and generational wealth, ideally he has decent earning potential and a chosen career path.

I know some well educated men in their late 30s who still ride a skateboard to their barista job so that they can focus on their art or their band in the evenings. I know some well educated men who have massive debt and work in the arts or at non-profits because that’s their passion. I don’t think that’s who women are referring to when they say well educated.

What is an "intelligent conversation " to you? Do you believe someone who didn't go to college would talk about video games football and things?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ my spouse is from blue collar town in Ohio that has so much unemployment.

Manual labor has an age limit. There is physical work that can’t be done as you age. Add in a physical injury and you are done.

This is why my friend has been married to a SAHD for 12 years. When their second child was an infant, he was injured at work. He got $50k in a settlement, but that is nothing over a dozen years. Luckily, she has a college degree and a government job.

I know "highly educated" men who stay at home, too. It's not one way.

Would the wives have known it when they married? Not in a million years.

Anonymous wrote:Being well-educated is an inherent good in my view. I want to be with someone who is interested in and has a good and reasonably deep understanding of history, literature, other cultures, philosophical concepts, etc. I can make my own money. I want someone cultured and with whom I can have interesting conversations, someone with a background similar to my own. Fortunately I have that in my DH.

That is different. If you come from similar backgrounds, and are somewhat equally matched, both educated to a similar extent, similar upbringing, that tends to work better than the (usually) woman who thinks she "deserves" to have a rich man.

If you live in certain areas, you tend to see it more often. Gold diggers are found in all sorts of places. If (far from HYPSM type shallow person) claims to find a HYPSM person "intriguing/interesting/whatever", showing inappropriate interest....especially if it is someone else's spouse...... it is obvious. If someone doesn't know how to hold a conversation with a HYPSM person, other than to ask them questions about what they do - OMG, monotonous! The HYPSM person doesn't say "why don't we hang out with (shallow person) more often?" Because boring.

The HYPSM person does not want to spend their limited time around people who are not on the same level, generally. Casual acquaintances is one thing, but marriage? No.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Well-educated" = financially well off. The same as when women say they want a man who is "ambitious".

Not necessarily; you can be well educated without having made your money yet. Plenty of people marry potential, it’s more important that the guy have a plan and the ability to follow it.

“Well educated” = I can take him to work events and he can have intelligent conversations with my colleagues and clients. He will fit in at the school, pool, club, neighborhood I aspire to be part of, he will value education and want the same things for our kids so that we can pass on our privilege and generational wealth, ideally he has decent earning potential and a chosen career path.

I know some well educated men in their late 30s who still ride a skateboard to their barista job so that they can focus on their art or their band in the evenings. I know some well educated men who have massive debt and work in the arts or at non-profits because that’s their passion. I don’t think that’s who women are referring to when they say well educated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a class issue. I have a graduate degree from a fancy school and grew up in a wealthy area, so I know a lot of UMC folks pretty well. But, my parents did not go to college, worked blue collar jobs, and were not into the whole UMC social scene. As a result, I know lots of people who are not "well educated" but read plenty, have diverse interests, and can hold their own in an intellectual conversation. They just did not go to college and do not work professional jobs. I also know lots of UMC women who would never consider dating any of those people, because they are not "well educated." The women will say it's about "ability to hold a conversation," but either they are ignorant or they are not being honest; plenty of these folks can hold a conversation. Instead, it really seems that they want someone who will fit in with their family and friends and is not too different. This is a class issue.

A degree is like a form of insurance.

If you are blue collar and the economy turns, you lose a job, etc. it’s harder to find work. Even Starbucks baristas have college degrees.

If you have a college degree it helps and if you have a graduate or professional degree it’s even more insurance (unless your loan debt is outrageous ).

It’s a tribe. Are you comfortable in a crowd with guys friends that didn’t finish high school or go to college and likely their girlfriends/wives too? I dated a few guys in 20s who never went to college and the women and crowd they hung out with I did not have much in common.

My husband came from a blue collar neighborhood, grew up very poor but got $ to go to a top university, speaks 3 languages fluently is well-read, Renaissance man that travels extensively. We can from different worlds.

Practically, the bolded is how I think about it. Are there plenty of intelligent, hard-working, decent people without college degrees who earn a good living? Sure. But college degrees afford many more options than without them, typically. That's why we encourage our kids to go to college and why DH's aunt insisted he attend, even though neither of his parents did. A bachelors degree gives you options. Graduate degrees can, too, of course, but they often come with a debt burden that may or may not be worth it.

But a plumber earns 100k a year on average without the stress time and gray hairs if takes to earn a college degree. A good real estate agent is the same.

Anonymous wrote:^ my spouse is from blue collar town in Ohio that has so much unemployment.

Manual labor has an age limit. There is physical work that can’t be done as you age. Add in a physical injury and you are done.

This is why my friend has been married to a SAHD for 12 years. When their second child was an infant, he was injured at work. He got $50k in a settlement, but that is nothing over a dozen years. Luckily, she has a college degree and a government job.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a class issue. I have a graduate degree from a fancy school and grew up in a wealthy area, so I know a lot of UMC folks pretty well. But, my parents did not go to college, worked blue collar jobs, and were not into the whole UMC social scene. As a result, I know lots of people who are not "well educated" but read plenty, have diverse interests, and can hold their own in an intellectual conversation. They just did not go to college and do not work professional jobs. I also know lots of UMC women who would never consider dating any of those people, because they are not "well educated." The women will say it's about "ability to hold a conversation," but either they are ignorant or they are not being honest; plenty of these folks can hold a conversation. Instead, it really seems that they want someone who will fit in with their family and friends and is not too different. This is a class issue.

A degree is like a form of insurance.

If you are blue collar and the economy turns, you lose a job, etc. it’s harder to find work. Even Starbucks baristas have college degrees.

If you have a college degree it helps and if you have a graduate or professional degree it’s even more insurance (unless your loan debt is outrageous ).

It’s a tribe. Are you comfortable in a crowd with guys friends that didn’t finish high school or go to college and likely their girlfriends/wives too? I dated a few guys in 20s who never went to college and the women and crowd they hung out with I did not have much in common.

My husband came from a blue collar neighborhood, grew up very poor but got $ to go to a top university, speaks 3 languages fluently is well-read, Renaissance man that travels extensively. We can from different worlds.

Practically, the bolded is how I think about it. Are there plenty of intelligent, hard-working, decent people without college degrees who earn a good living? Sure. But college degrees afford many more options than without them, typically. That's why we encourage our kids to go to college and why DH's aunt insisted he attend, even though neither of his parents did. A bachelors degree gives you options. Graduate degrees can, too, of course, but they often come with a debt burden that may or may not be worth it.

Female STEM grad degree here. In the sciences, grad degrees are usually paid for. I got a full stipend that paid for my degree while I worked in lab and taught an undergrad bio 101 lab. The type of degree matters too. A PhD an Art History would have been lots of debt for me with no return.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a class issue. I have a graduate degree from a fancy school and grew up in a wealthy area, so I know a lot of UMC folks pretty well. But, my parents did not go to college, worked blue collar jobs, and were not into the whole UMC social scene. As a result, I know lots of people who are not "well educated" but read plenty, have diverse interests, and can hold their own in an intellectual conversation. They just did not go to college and do not work professional jobs. I also know lots of UMC women who would never consider dating any of those people, because they are not "well educated." The women will say it's about "ability to hold a conversation," but either they are ignorant or they are not being honest; plenty of these folks can hold a conversation. Instead, it really seems that they want someone who will fit in with their family and friends and is not too different. This is a class issue.

+1

It is also a class issue in that there are SO many social climbers, in this geographical area, especially. It is sad to see in action. I would want a guy who could see through this.

What’s the difference between a “social climber” and someone moving up in SES successfully though their profession? Or are they the same?

What makes a social climber a social climber? The attitude and incessant social engineering and butt kissing? Or having a good job, kids in private school and/or joining a recreation/golf club for sports and classes and community?

Depends why they join the golf club or private school. I know many people (mostly women) who join for the "social" aspects. ie: social climbing.

We joined because it was open and functioning during Covid so our kids could get lessons.
Yes we can afford it because of our income and saving 20 years. Are we social climbers? Sometimes my spouse talks shop at these places and they have venues for holiday dinners and bday parties. Better than a $150/ gym membership imo.

Being well-educated is an inherent good in my view. I want to be with someone who is interested in and has a good and reasonably deep understanding of history, literature, other cultures, philosophical concepts, etc. I can make my own money. I want someone cultured and with whom I can have interesting conversations, someone with a background similar to my own. Fortunately I have that in my DH.

^ my spouse is from blue collar town in Ohio that has so much unemployment.

Manual labor has an age limit. There is physical work that can’t be done as you age. Add in a physical injury and you are done.