Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP. I’m the person who is dealing with something incredibly similar (I’m a woman married to another woman, AP is a woman too). You might have seen some of my threads.

This exact thing is going on with me. The difference is the AP is local and I know she and DW are having regular sex. DW refuses to move out even though we are both miserable. She is 100% emotionally abusing me. Texting AP almost every minute — literally. Sending AP pics of our kids. Packing her lunches and bringing her coffee daily. My DW is truly an awful, heartless person, and frankly I’m not sure how she lives with her disgraceful self, and yet I’m having so much trouble letting go of our family unit.

I guess I just wanted to commiserate and tell you you aren’t alone. Hugs. We both deserve so much better, and so do our kids.

OP here. Oh boy, what a difficult situation!! I'm so sorry. I get what you mean about keeping the family unit together. This is quite a crisis and I don't wish this on anyone. Do you have a support system? Are you guys in the process of getting a divorce?

I do have a support system but I still feel incredibly alone. Everyone has their own lives and their own problems at the end of the day. DW has the AP to comfort her (although DW seems totally ok with the dissolution of our family because affair fog). The nights are so hard, after the kids are in bed.

Yes, DW has started the divorce process (to catch you up on my story, DW wants to marry AP, and AP is kind of the puppeteer moving things along because she is undocumented and financially unstable and DW is her ticket; meanwhile DW is so completely obsessed that she will stop at almost nothing to get out of the house and start her fantasy life with AP). The process is moving quicker than I am comfortable with for many reasons, so I am trying to pump the breaks a bit although I would love for DW to get the F out of the house in the interim.

Different poster here, not the one you're replying to. PP with the DW in the affair -- I remember your threads well. I really hope you have a good lawyer -- please tell us you do! I'm sorry things are not working out but at the same time, pumping the brakes will only delay what, sadly, is now the inevitable. I would want you to have a good, experienced lawyer to ensure you get as much custody as possible. I recall you were concerned in your other threads about the kids being around the AP, weren't you? Please be aware, your DW's focus on marrying the AP might eventually include a desire to "play Happy Families" using your kids as part of that illusion of a family with the AP/new wife. Especially as your DW seems to be in a fantasy world where AP is perfection. I would frankly want to deny that as much as possible. Not deny all custody, of course, but I'd be leery of any attempt by her to get more than her due, and I'd want it written into any custody agreement that the parents cannot badmouth each other in front of the kids. (I believe that agreements can indeed include provisions like that but I'm not sure.)

As for getting DW out of the house, what does your lawyer say? Maybe DW's lawyer has said that if DW does that, moves in with the AP or whatever, it will create issues with custody later? I'd really want DW out too, in your circumstances.
Thinking of you and hoping you can move on and have good support as you mention above.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll give you a different perspective. It sounds to me like he is highly ambivalent about both relationships and about intimacy in general. I bet if you became pleasant and neutral and “no problem” about this he would stay indefinitely. Right now he is too much of a coward to make a choice, and you pushing him away is choosing for him. He’s hoping you will do that and that’s why he contacted this woman again. But he doesn’t really intend to leave you for her as that would involve a new commitment and a new set of problems.

Has he said anything about what he actually wants? From the marriage or from his emotional life in general?

I would cut the drama, it’s not getting you anywhere… no more crying and begging. You need to decide what you want from this and play your cards accordingly. If what you want is for this sorry excuse of a guy to stay with you I can pretty much guarantee that he will if you suddenly become understanding and non clingy. If you want him to leave and to punish him that will come at a cost to your child and only you can decide if it will be worth it in the long run.

Also, he can say what he wants to the OW. All the ILY in the world doesn’t change the facts. He’s married to you and you have a kid. I bet he hasn’t told her that you want him out and he’s begging to stay, under the guise of “what’s best for the kid.” He tells her that you’re giving him a hard time. She’s his escape. But if he didn’t have anything to escape from and he had to make a big boy choice for himself, no way in hell he goes to her. He wouldn’t be able to handle the responsibility of giving up the marriage.

If you want him, you play the long game until she gets tired of waiting and disappears. If you don’t want him, then sure use this as a reason to get rid of him.

Either way be clear with yourself that this move shouldn’t be about getting him to love you. That may or may not happen with the set up you have. Just think for yourself about the practicalities of what you want and don’t let your fear of hurt and rejection cloud your judgment about financial and practical matters.

This exactly. AP will get tired of waiting and leave.

Anonymous wrote:OP, as others have mentioned here before, why not tell him that you will out him to family if he doesn't move out? Why not use that leverage now for moving out and for negotiations on other things now (e.g. custody, financials)? This will put you in a stronger position while he may be amenable.

Grow up, people. His family already knows they have a crappy marriage. They already know he doesn't love her. They already know everything.

Anonymous wrote:My guess is this is not the first time he has been emotionally abusive to you, which is what his current behavior is.

No reread her post her vocabulary words.
She's the problem.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry Op I am going through something similar but I've stayed because I clearly have no self respect or backbone. I hope you get good advice.

I don't want a divorce, I'm 100 percent against it, but I have been pressuring him to chose either the marriage or the EAP, and given his recent hostility towards me, he is probably going to chose the EAP.

You want to stay with a cheater?

Of course, you do.

My guess is you are going to continue to blame the "other woman" because you have such high morals, LOL.

This is not how it works. She needs to get a lawyer or a mediator and determine who is getting the house, if the house will be sold, how they will do their separation and get a custody and property agreement in place before anyone moves from the marital home. You can't kick a property owner out of a house. You seem to have no idea how divorce actually works.

People seem obsessed with this idea that you can't kick someone out of their house.

If there is anyone on this forum that has ousted their cheating spouse from the family home and then was forced to allow them to move back in I would love to hear it.

Kicking out your cheating spouse doesn't mean you get to keep the house in the end.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's separation in place? Continuing to live together in same house?
It sounds like that would be very challenging, why couldn't you separate and actually physically separate?

Tell us about the AP, is she local? Is she married? Has the affair only been emotional?

Yes, separation in place (per Virginia law for divorcing couples with minor children, no fault divorce).

EAP is in another state. Affair is only emotional but extremely intense.

Why would you choose the no fault option? ???
Divorce for fault. It doesn’t change division of assets but reduces the wait time

It doesn’t necessarily reduce the wait time because there is has to be a period of discovery can actually end up taking longer and the divorce is much more expensive when you do at fault then if you do you no-fault. Adultery is extremely hard and very expensive to prove and does not necessarily shorten the process also if this was an emotional affair this does not count as adultery because they literally need photo or video proof.

VA is easier than you think. Leaving and entering hotel is enough. Don’t need photos of sexual acts, etc.

OP, as others have mentioned here before, why not tell him that you will out him to family if he doesn't move out? Why not use that leverage now for moving out and for negotiations on other things now (e.g. custody, financials)? This will put you in a stronger position while he may be amenable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's separation in place? Continuing to live together in same house?
It sounds like that would be very challenging, why couldn't you separate and actually physically separate?

Tell us about the AP, is she local? Is she married? Has the affair only been emotional?

Yes, separation in place (per Virginia law for divorcing couples with minor children, no fault divorce).

EAP is in another state. Affair is only emotional but extremely intense.

Why would you choose the no fault option? ???
Divorce for fault. It doesn’t change division of assets but reduces the wait time

It doesn’t necessarily reduce the wait time because there is has to be a period of discovery can actually end up taking longer and the divorce is much more expensive when you do at fault then if you do you no-fault. Adultery is extremely hard and very expensive to prove and does not necessarily shorten the process also if this was an emotional affair this does not count as adultery because they literally need photo or video proof.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP. I’m the person who is dealing with something incredibly similar (I’m a woman married to another woman, AP is a woman too). You might have seen some of my threads.

This exact thing is going on with me. The difference is the AP is local and I know she and DW are having regular sex. DW refuses to move out even though we are both miserable. She is 100% emotionally abusing me. Texting AP almost every minute — literally. Sending AP pics of our kids. Packing her lunches and bringing her coffee daily. My DW is truly an awful, heartless person, and frankly I’m not sure how she lives with her disgraceful self, and yet I’m having so much trouble letting go of our family unit.

I guess I just wanted to commiserate and tell you you aren’t alone. Hugs. We both deserve so much better, and so do our kids.

OP here. Oh boy, what a difficult situation!! I'm so sorry. I get what you mean about keeping the family unit together. This is quite a crisis and I don't wish this on anyone. Do you have a support system? Are you guys in the process of getting a divorce?

I’m not the PP but why does OP have to shoulder the burden of “keeping the family unit together” when this guy is not participating in the family unit as it is? Like Elvis, he’s already left the building. Except - he’s still there physically, as a reminder to OP everyday of how emotionally angsty and needy and deep and special he is. So not only does OP have to cater to his sorry *ss, she has to feel empathy and sorrow for him to boot. He’s a total drag on her and the family unit. OP - do you make your own money? What do you need this guy for, if anything? Just because he is the biological father of your child is not enough in and of itself to keep him around in light of all the chaos he is causing. It seems based on your descriptions having the husband in the house is doing more harm than good.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP. I’m the person who is dealing with something incredibly similar (I’m a woman married to another woman, AP is a woman too). You might have seen some of my threads.

This exact thing is going on with me. The difference is the AP is local and I know she and DW are having regular sex. DW refuses to move out even though we are both miserable. She is 100% emotionally abusing me. Texting AP almost every minute — literally. Sending AP pics of our kids. Packing her lunches and bringing her coffee daily. My DW is truly an awful, heartless person, and frankly I’m not sure how she lives with her disgraceful self, and yet I’m having so much trouble letting go of our family unit.

I guess I just wanted to commiserate and tell you you aren’t alone. Hugs. We both deserve so much better, and so do our kids.

OP here. Oh boy, what a difficult situation!! I'm so sorry. I get what you mean about keeping the family unit together. This is quite a crisis and I don't wish this on anyone. Do you have a support system? Are you guys in the process of getting a divorce?

I do have a support system but I still feel incredibly alone. Everyone has their own lives and their own problems at the end of the day. DW has the AP to comfort her (although DW seems totally ok with the dissolution of our family because affair fog). The nights are so hard, after the kids are in bed.

Yes, DW has started the divorce process (to catch you up on my story, DW wants to marry AP, and AP is kind of the puppeteer moving things along because she is undocumented and financially unstable and DW is her ticket; meanwhile DW is so completely obsessed that she will stop at almost nothing to get out of the house and start her fantasy life with AP). The process is moving quicker than I am comfortable with for many reasons, so I am trying to pump the breaks a bit although I would love for DW to get the F out of the house in the interim.

I have friends who lived under the same roof during part of their year of separation. It was difficult because the cheater was actively involved in front of the betrayed spouse. Cheater was "leaving for" the AP.

The most difficult times were dinner (if both are home who eats with the kids), watching tv in the evening, etc. The times when everyone is home and the kids want to interact with both parents as they've always done.

The betrayed spouse ended up moving in with a family member short-term because they felt they were watching their marriage unravel in slow motion and it was too much to take to listen to their spouse laughing on the phone with AP night after night.

If there is anyplace your spouse can go, OP, I'd consider it.

Anonymous wrote:What’s the APs story? Is she married? She may just want to live in a fantasy text world if she is in another state and not want him full time. Are they planning to be together eventually?

If she is married, tell her husband. Start messing up her world.

What’s the APs story? Is she married? She may just want to live in a fantasy text world if she is in another state and not want him full time. Are they planning to be together eventually?

Anonymous wrote:I’ll give you a different perspective. It sounds to me like he is highly ambivalent about both relationships and about intimacy in general. I bet if you became pleasant and neutral and “no problem” about this he would stay indefinitely. Right now he is too much of a coward to make a choice, and you pushing him away is choosing for him. He’s hoping you will do that and that’s why he contacted this woman again. But he doesn’t really intend to leave you for her as that would involve a new commitment and a new set of problems.

Has he said anything about what he actually wants? From the marriage or from his emotional life in general?

I would cut the drama, it’s not getting you anywhere… no more crying and begging. You need to decide what you want from this and play your cards accordingly. If what you want is for this sorry excuse of a guy to stay with you I can pretty much guarantee that he will if you suddenly become understanding and non clingy. If you want him to leave and to punish him that will come at a cost to your child and only you can decide if it will be worth it in the long run.

Also, he can say what he wants to the OW. All the ILY in the world doesn’t change the facts. He’s married to you and you have a kid. I bet he hasn’t told her that you want him out and he’s begging to stay, under the guise of “what’s best for the kid.” He tells her that you’re giving him a hard time. She’s his escape. But if he didn’t have anything to escape from and he had to make a big boy choice for himself, no way in hell he goes to her. He wouldn’t be able to handle the responsibility of giving up the marriage.

If you want him, you play the long game until she gets tired of waiting and disappears. If you don’t want him, then sure use this as a reason to get rid of him.

Either way be clear with yourself that this move shouldn’t be about getting him to love you. That may or may not happen with the set up you have. Just think for yourself about the practicalities of what you want and don’t let your fear of hurt and rejection cloud your judgment about financial and practical matters.