Anonymous
Post 10/02/2021 19:36     Subject: Re:Arguments about drinking
Start educating yourself and get some support for you, OP.

https://www.alanon.org.za/meetings/#:~:text=LIST%20OF%20ZOOM%20MEETINGS%20%20%20Group%20Name,082%20212%201878%20%206%20more%20rows%20

https://www.alanon.org.za/is-al-anon-for-me/

Your husband has a problem with alcohol. It is no longer debatable.
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2021 18:40     Subject: Arguments about drinking
Anonymous wrote:OP here. DH and I stuck with the no drinking through end of the month like we had agreed. There were no issues or sneaking anything. I personally missed having a glass of wine a few times and I think my DH did as well but after a week we both had pretty much gotten into a routine and the lack of drinks even in social situations was not a problem. I felt really good about how it went!

Today was the first day back to “normal.” It was also my DH’s last day at his prior job and day before we go on a big trip, so cause for celebration. We split a nice bottle of champagne and definitely felt it more than usual. My DH then proceeded to drink two martinis (3 shots each), a large serving of whiskey, and half a bottle of wine over about 4 hours during/after dinner. I feel like we are back to where we were. I brought that up, and DH got annoyed with me. Am I being neurotic? Is it possible/a good idea to jointly come up with what a “reasonable” amount of drinking is and both agree to it?


Focus on yourself OP and get in a month of Al Anon meetings. Then answer your question.
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2021 18:37     Subject: Arguments about drinking
Anonymous wrote:Double up on your birth control. This would be unacceptable to me.

This x 1000
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2021 18:22     Subject: Arguments about drinking
Anonymous wrote:OP here. DH and I stuck with the no drinking through end of the month like we had agreed. There were no issues or sneaking anything. I personally missed having a glass of wine a few times and I think my DH did as well but after a week we both had pretty much gotten into a routine and the lack of drinks even in social situations was not a problem. I felt really good about how it went!

Today was the first day back to “normal.” It was also my DH’s last day at his prior job and day before we go on a big trip, so cause for celebration. We split a nice bottle of champagne and definitely felt it more than usual. My DH then proceeded to drink two martinis (3 shots each), a large serving of whiskey, and half a bottle of wine over about 4 hours during/after dinner. I feel like we are back to where we were. I brought that up, and DH got annoyed with me. Am I being neurotic? Is it possible/a good idea to jointly come up with what a “reasonable” amount of drinking is and both agree to it?


You are exactly back where you were and then some. Because now there's no denying that he has a problem and isn't going to stop on his own, no matter how many "agreements" you come up with. And if he was annoyed when told him he was drinking too much, how do you think he is going to react when you are playing the role of "enforcer" of the alcohol limit? And do you really want to be the enforcer of the alcohol limit?

Find a therapist, go to Al-Anon and for good measure I'd get rid of what sounds like, well, a very healthy supply of alcohol in your home and point blank tell him it's because he has a problem with alcohol and you're not going to keep it around.

I was the poster that said this when everyone was piling on a couple of weeks ago:

DP - this is really unhelpful. OP is not dealing with repeated conversations and broken promises. It sounds like this current conversation/reaction may be the first or at least the start. I don't see what other choice she has at this point if he is willing to attempt steps to abstain and moderate.

If he fails in the 2.5 weeks or the story is repeating itself in 6 months then it's a different conversation.


Now it's a different conversation. The choices aren't accept it or divorce, but I think you better decide how you want to live.
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2021 17:14     Subject: Re:Arguments about drinking
He sounds like my husband. The drinking problems have continued. He has matured and gotten it together because he values his career.

I’d put a 3-4 month timeline on it and plan to leave if things haven’t improved. They likely won’t.

Trust me - you’ll be dealing with his drinking for the rest of your life.
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2021 16:04     Subject: Re:Arguments about drinking
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Husband also said we could stop drinking entirely if I wanted that. I am considering we try that for a period of time. Would you recommend that approach as opposed to moderation? For a few weeks? Can that help confirm that he does not have an alcohol dependency as he states? I am not convinced he is an alcoholic considering there are some days when he drinks less or not at all. It seems to be worse during periods of stress. He does not think it is a problem because it doesn’t control him. Thanks for the thoughts.
OP, sorry to say this, but this is a typical strategy of alcoholics. Some folks like to prove they can stop at any time and do it for awhile but then come back to where they were before. They think they don't have a problem because they managed to stop for a period of time but they are only fooling themselves.


On the other hand, sometimes non-alcoholics are drinking too much and need to change. One time, not long after college, I got black out drunk, got into a car, and wrecked. (Fortunately I was the only one hurt.) This is obviously hugely problematic behavior. I went to a court-ordered, 48 hour treatment program. It was pretty cookie-cutter. They insisted I was an alcoholic. I wasn't. I went 6 months without drinking anything. Then I started drinking again. This was 20 years ago and it hasn't been a problem. I drink a beer, maybe two, in a given evening. I get seriously drunk maybe once every two or three years.

I'm sure that, twenty years ago, if I described how I had been drinking and the car accident, everyone on here would insist that I was an alcoholic -- and for pretty good reason. But I just needed a serious wake up call to knock me out of college drinking patterns. I could control my drinking, but back then it just seemed more fun not to.

As for OP, I agree that drinking just a little is more proof of control than going cold turkey. And I think you probably want to set the goal in terms of months, not weeks.


Seriously drunk = blacking out?

You could have killed someone.

Are you a parent?

Why not just stop drinking? Sounds like you still drink daily?
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2021 16:00     Subject: Re:Arguments about drinking
^ meant porn addiction
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2021 16:00     Subject: Arguments about drinking
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Double up on your birth control. This would be unacceptable to me.

This.


Creepy how many people quoted and agreed with this. I'm guessing you're all childless women? Because I'm in my 40s and quite a few girlfriends who admit they themselves and/or their husbands had drinking issues before the first baby. All of them calmed down after the first baby was born – a couple of the husbands became teetotalers. Kids make you grow up, kids make you want to be a better person. Again, hard to believe anyone with children would tell you to "double" birth control or avoid having a baby at 30. Yeah, wait another few years for all of your healthy eggs to be gone.


And all the posters who grew up in alcoholic homes suggests that not everyone moderates use after kids.

The drinking and overspending suggest some significant underlying issues, perhaps bipolar. Any kids will have a greater risk of alcoholism or addiction, what a gift, OP. And someday you may have cancer or a job loss and have a partner who dives back into or more heavily into drinking to cope. You have a lot of hubris too, thinking you will always have enough margin to offset his unreliability. I was once you. You still have time to have a different life but the clock is ticking.

OP, did you grow up in a family with mental illness, anxiety, depression, heavy drinking, gambling, food addiction, etc? Did you come from a divorced or single mom home? Something in your own background is causing you to get the red flags on delay and then doubling down on your choice, likely recreating some past dynamic. You married an alcoholic with spending issues. What other issues are going to come along or are already there, just being hidden?
Porn? Cheating? Gambling?

The kind of drinking he engages in damages health and makes job loss and duis more likely. His drinking may become an issue at work related events.

OP, try Al Anon. And get a therapist with experience in addiction to figure out how you ended up here and why you are clinging to an out of control situation. There is a pattern repeating from your past.
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2021 15:34     Subject: Re:Arguments about drinking
^sorry, messed up the quoting.
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2021 15:33     Subject: Re:Arguments about drinking
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all the feedback; honestly the divorce recommendations were a bit frightening though. I don’t think that is the best solution at this point. This morning my husband agreed that the bottle of wine before dinner was too much. We talked about just splitting a bottle during the weekdays if we both decide to drink during dinner and no drinking alone. I’m still a little concerned about sticking with this rhythm going forward but my husband also had some overspending habits that he got totally under control within the last year. I feel like if he puts his mind to something he can achieve it. At this point, I’m more concerned about the conflict resolution piece and feeling like we can talk productively without these type of arguments. That’s not as simple to implement as agreeing to a certain number of drinks.


You are going to end up being his gatekeeper, which will be a miserable dynamic for you both. He’s not able to “just decide to drink during dinner” and split a bottle in the same way that you are (in the sense that you can take it or leave it and every ounce of his being is thinking about the next drink). You’re in denial as well.[/quote

Him getting you to up your daily drinking is no solution OP. In fact, it is how my alcoholic father turned my mom into an alcoholic as well. He would even urge drinks on my college aged friends if they were in the house.

You drinking does not address that HE CANNOT STOP DRINKING. In fact, you may develop a drinking problem yourself.

Go to Al Anon, OP. For both of you.

His spending issues are not a surprise. Over time there may be employment issues and cheating. And the drivers do not make these one and done problems, they will reappear because he is not addressing the drivers. Under stress in particular.

OP, you are going to let this guy ruin your life and the lives of any kids you have if you don't get some insight.

He could have underlying trauma, be self medicating bipolar or anxiety, come from a family of addicts. How does YOU becoming a DAILY DRINKER HELP ANY OF THAT?

Your posts are like watching a car wreck in slow motion, OP. Do NOT bring children into this home.
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2021 15:13     Subject: Arguments about drinking
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:He's an alcoholic. You need to divorce.


That's incredibly harsh. What happened to "in sickness and in health"?

That said- a frank conversation is in order though. You love him, you planned to be married forever, have kids etc. And you cant do that in the state he is currently in. And you want to HELP him, if he is willing to get help.

You dont just instantly divorce.


They have had conversations. In response, his drinking has escalated.

OP, this is not someone you will be able to count on. Any kids would be at higher risk for alcoholism and addiction themselves. What if you had kids with him and something happened to you? Would you have given them the most stable and responsible and emotionally functional parent you could? Or would they be left to cope with a drunk alone? Even if he does quit for periods of time, as my father did, you will always be trying to manage life and control things that are not in your control so he does not use again. You deserve better as do your future kids. GET OUT. At your age you will have a lot of choice of quality men.

He has shown you who he is, you expressed concern and his use escalated. What is unclear to you, OP?
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2021 15:06     Subject: Arguments about drinking
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My DH has the same issue; drinks too much nightly and I find him obnoxious and am concerned about his health. We have 2 young kids and he loves them and me so I have no plans for divorce. I do want to help him through this.

When drunk, I usually am polite but avoid him (kids are always asleep) but the morning after a big drinking night I bring it up with him. In DHs case I think he is self medicating for anxiety so I generally say something like “it’s so hard to see you this anxious, i want you to start taking care of yourself” etc etc. I made a big push for therapy and for using cbd oil, both of which have reduced the drinking but not eliminated it. OP, do you have any idea what the root cause of the drinking is? Are there times when it worsens or gets better? I think knowing this might help you to support him in getting help.


This sounds like classic enabling behavior.


To this poster, what if you had to go out of town for work or a family emergency? What if one of the kids got sick in the night or there was a fire or other emergency and your DH could not function?
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2021 15:01     Subject: Re:Arguments about drinking
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Don’t waste the pretty. Get out now while you can find another partner in your 30s if you want kods.

If you stay, this guy needs to be in active sobriety for at least five years before you should think about kids.


+1

My friend just got divorced from her alcoholic husband and they have young kids. It has been so hard on their kids. I would get out now.


OP, you are young enough to create a family that will not revolve around alcoholism. Be grateful that this happened when you are so young. Starter marriages are a thing. Work on yourself so you can pick better next time.

His drinking is going to worsen over time, don't let him drag you down too. Do not have sex without backup methods of birth control. Talk to a lawyer and make plans to get out. You will be so glad you did, this has to be driving a lot of anxiety for you. The issue is not even the drinking but the problems that he is using drinking to "solve." There are a lot of nice guys out there who are not addicts and alcoholics. At your age, you can find one. Best of luck to you.

If you had kids and split, you would be surprised at how little courts protect kids in these situation and it can be terrifying and dangerous for them to be alone with a drunk or addict. Jump off the crazy train now and do not inflict it on a new generation.
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2021 14:50     Subject: Arguments about drinking
Anonymous wrote:Al-Anon and the “Getting Them Sober” series by Toby Rice Drews.

Brutal honesty is that you should divorce, especially if you want kids. Alcoholics rarely get better, even if they quit, relapse is highly likely (I come from a large family of alcoholics). If you have children, you’ll be trying to shield them from his drinking, which will get worse with time.

But it’s really hard to untangle yourself and usually takes a few years before you’re ready to leave. So just build up support for yourself as much as you can.


+1 on Al-Anon OP. I am not familiar with that series.

I grew up with parents who drank, my father died from alcoholism, my mother had to stop due to a cancer diagnosis but is an unrecovered dry drunk. She is very isolated and seems to have no insight into her behavior and how it impacts people.

I have spent a lot of time in Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families, wish I had found it sooner. I married a depressive workaholic cheater, who left but who has significant custody to avoid support, my kids are messed up due to that.

The issue is not just the drinking, it is past trauma or dysfunction or poor patterns of handling feelings that make it difficult or unappealing to dial it back in response to your concerns.

At your age, I think you really need to do some work on why you picked this person. Do not have kids unless there is a LONG period of sobriety. You will do better working on yourself, divorcing and trying to re-marry. If you don't do the work on yourself, and Al-Anon is great, or ACoA if you came from a dysfunctional upbringing, you will think you are picking differently but will end up with the same issues. You do NOT want to bring kids into this situation, it has really impacted my life and my sibs. My mom initially did not drink but later drank with him, my father even drank with my teen brother and his friends, so embarrassing. It was a hellish childhood, even when he wasn't drunk we all walked on eggshells waiting for the shoe to fall. I remember friend's parents being heavy drinkers and being scared in cars with them or when they would act strangely, it just is not good for kids.

Wishing you the best, OP, find an Al-Anon meeting, they do them in person or on Zoom. I learned so much from how I reacted to others, it was a real short cut to reality. Keep an eye on the clock, you still have time to choose better the second time if you put the work in now.
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2021 14:49     Subject: Arguments about drinking
You are married to an alcoholic. Ask me how I know.