When and by whom?

Wow TJ booster is back - it's been a while! Wasn't your hand slapped a while back for your posting practices?

I do not claim that school is all about academics and intellectual power. Of course, there are sports, arts, music and rubbing shoulders with rich and famous. All schools, public and private, offer these side shows.

I do think the private schools agree with your assessment since these activities/side shows are called extracurricular activities!

Private schools are not obligated to base admission solely on intellect. In fact, they should not. And if they did, then I would have no interest in STA or any of the other Top Schools. Moreover, as with many ....

Then private schools and their boosters should NOT be surprised when schools like TJ and Blair magnet consistently outperform the private product academically and intellectually year in and year out. Admission to private schools is not based solely on intellect. Admission to Blair magnet and TJ is not based soley on legacy, sibship, socioeconomic status and money.

Forty percent of each class is are national merit finalists and semifinalists, significantly more AP scholars with highest honors, significantly more honors in national and international competitions in math and sciences, significantly more Intel and Sieman awardees, year in and year out, over the last decade and a half.

I do not claim that school is all about academics and intellectual power. Of course, there are sports, arts, music and rubbing shoulders with rich and famous. All schools, public and private, offer these side shows.

Anonymous wrote:

Is there research that supports that being a sibling or legacy immediately means you must not be as bright? Why do people assume that these kids must not be super bright?

If you are correct, then why don't these schools base admission on metrics of intellect rather than sibship, legacy, power and money (think Bush, Gore, Kerry and many others). Afterall, these would invariably be the superbright kids?

Private schools are not obligated to base admission solely on intellect. In fact, they should not. And if they did, then I would have no interest in STA or any of the other Top Schools. Moreover, as with many other Ps here, you assume there are accurate metrics of intellect. As a PP noted, the test results are not always meaningful. A school that claims to accept only the B&B inevitably creates a we know it all attitude, which is both false and dangerous. We need look no further than the mess on Wall Street to conclude that the arrogance of the B&B is dangerous for all of us, not simply them. One study I read several years ago concluded that over 50% of Princeton graduates (being one definition of B&B) went to work on Wall Street in some role. Not a good sign. Another study concluded that, on many factual questions, the crowd (not the experts) has a higher accuracy rate. On "Who wants to be a millionaire," the crowd has a better batting average than the "expert" on the phone line. So, private schools should admit based on a variety of criteria, including intellect.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Best post" author: We are considering applying our son to STA next year. I was wondering what kind of a kid would do well at STA given their culture. Do you have to be ultra-competitive to survive there? What is the culture like between the boys? Is is very friendly and supporive, or more competitive and hierarchical? Thanks!

My sense is that they are looking for a diverse class makeup, and part of that would be including boys who play against the STA super-preppy stereotype. We have not sensed an ultra-competitive vibe in our time there, although there are certainly some driven boys (and parents). It is a demanding atmosphere, and one where conformity is the norm.

We were pleasantly surprised by how much the faculty/administration encourage a more communitarian ethos, and the whole 'do you know who I am?' factor is simply nonexistent -- the school is bigger than any family or alum; they expelled Al Gore's son while he was VP, which speaks volumes. With regard to student cliques, they exist as anywhere but don't seem to be terribly corrosive. The lower school leadership (Paul Herman, lower school Head, in particular is absolutely outstanding) seems very focused on preventing an alpha boy gang from developing and thriving.

Thanks for your response. Very helpful! Just to clarify, what do you mean by including boys who "play against the STA super-preppy stereotype?" Do you mean boys who are artistic or into musical theatre/ballet, or something different? Thanks.

Is there research that supports that being a sibling or legacy immediately means you must not be as bright? Why do people assume that these kids must not be super bright?

If you are correct, then why don't these schools base admission on metrics of intellect rather than sibship, legacy, power and money (think Bush, Gore, Kerry and many others). Afterall, these would invariably be the superbright kids?

Anonymous wrote:"Best post" author: We are considering applying our son to STA next year. I was wondering what kind of a kid would do well at STA given their culture. Do you have to be ultra-competitive to survive there? What is the culture like between the boys? Is is very friendly and supporive, or more competitive and hierarchical? Thanks!

My sense is that they are looking for a diverse class makeup, and part of that would be including boys who play against the STA super-preppy stereotype. We have not sensed an ultra-competitive vibe in our time there, although there are certainly some driven boys (and parents). It is a demanding atmosphere, and one where conformity is the norm.

We were pleasantly surprised by how much the faculty/administration encourage a more communitarian ethos, and the whole 'do you know who I am?' factor is simply nonexistent -- the school is bigger than any family or alum; they expelled Al Gore's son while he was VP, which speaks volumes. With regard to student cliques, they exist as anywhere but don't seem to be terribly corrosive. The lower school leadership (Paul Herman, lower school Head, in particular is absolutely outstanding) seems very focused on preventing an alpha boy gang from developing and thriving.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the big chip on everyone's shoulder about the notion there might actually be "very gifted" boys coming from Beauvoir? Of course bright boys from other schools matriculate in at later grades but this constant slam on the abilities of the Beauvoir boys is a load of crap. The majority of the boys are extremely bright with smart motivated parents.

Very gifted in what? Their "gifts" weren't evident in grades pk - 8, in of the following: academics, the arts or sports. Bright boys, not geniuses.

Some of the highest scoring STA kids on the big tests [PSAT, SAT] and highest grades came from Beauvoir. Some of the best athletes came from Beauvoir AND are not redshirts. Some are both.

The critics seem to believe that one can actually tell who is the best and brightest at PK, K or whatever grade you cite. Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't. Do you honestly believe that a child who scores well, in one year, on WIPSI, WISC or SSAT will always score at the same level on all future tests. Simply absurd. Moreover, do you honestly think that these tests are the sole criteria for who will succeed in school, college or even life. Nonsense!! Moreover, no private school is obligated to admit only what it considers the best and brightest, assuming it could even figure that out. Finally, is the only relevant criteria pure academic intelligence rather than values, etc. I thought one of the benefits of private schools was its ability (compared to public schools) to teach values and, if so, this is relevant in admissions.

Anonymous wrote:What is the big chip on everyone's shoulder about the notion there might actually be "very gifted" boys coming from Beauvoir? Of course bright boys from other schools matriculate in at later grades but this constant slam on the abilities of the Beauvoir boys is a load of crap. The majority of the boys are extremely bright with smart motivated parents.

Very gifted in what? Their "gifts" weren't evident in grades pk - 8, in of the following: academics, the arts or sports. Bright boys, not geniuses.

Anonymous wrote:What I want to know is why so many Beauvoir parents are so hypersensitive. If you truly feel good about your school, its students, and your own son's abilities, than don't act so defensive and as though you have anything to defend.

Maybe because they are attacked constantly by Beauvoir haters? I don't have a kid there but I can't quite figure out why the schools seems to attract so much venom on this board. Sidwell does too but in a different way - there the venom seems to be directed at the admissions office rather than at the families/kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Seems a huge paradox. If entry to Beauvoir is largely predicated on sibship, legacy, bucks, socioeconomic status (big donors) how can this be the most gifted group (gifted refers to intellect). Bright, perhaps but not necessarily gifted.

There is no paradox. MANY slots in Beauvoir are given based on sibship, legacy, bucks, socioeconomic status. The REST of the slots are given to the super bright. The ones who end up being the brightest from St. Albans are also the latter slots from Beauvoir.

Is there research that supports that being a sibling or legacy immediately means you must not be as bright? Why do people assume that these kids must not be super bright?

What I want to know is why so many Beauvoir parents are so hypersensitive. If you truly feel good about your school, its students, and your own son's abilities, than don't act so defensive and as though you have anything to defend.

Anonymous wrote:

Seems a huge paradox. If entry to Beauvoir is largely predicated on sibship, legacy, bucks, socioeconomic status (big donors) how can this be the most gifted group (gifted refers to intellect). Bright, perhaps but not necessarily gifted.

There is no paradox. MANY slots in Beauvoir are given based on sibship, legacy, bucks, socioeconomic status. The REST of the slots are given to the super bright. The ones who end up being the brightest from St. Albans are also the latter slots from Beauvoir.