Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 07:34     Subject: Rich Men North of Richmond
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I honestly can hardly believe how much attention DCUM posters are giving this song and musician. Why?

Because we're in the DC metro area and around here, you have to identify as an R or D or a conservative or liberal. There is no middle ground whatsoever and why should there be considering our two amazing political parties and all the good they have done for us in recent decades. This song is very confusing to these posters because the song seems to include some political messaging but it isn't absolutely clear from which side of the aisle this guy is coming from. This causes the brains of the R and D simpletons to overheat because they assume everything to be us vs them, pick a side from one of only two sides, and hate the other side a lot more than you love your side.


Posters keep saying that our inability to detect a coherent message in this song is because of our own simple brains or whatever. So, let me ask you to the following:

1) In your opinion, what is the message of this song?

2) Do you believe that the song is consistent in making that message?

3 Do you believe that someone who has partisan political views is capable of objective analysis or are only those who hate both parties capable of this?

Good questions. I do think people with partisan political views are capable of objective analysis. I don't think there are many out there that hate both sides but there are a growing number of people that are frustrated with with our current political landscape. I don't have time for the hate but I get and sense the frustration; especially among young people. As far as the message of this song is concerned. I pasted below Mr. Anthony's take on that message and how the song has been received and interpreted. I think he is best to answer questions on any intended messaging of the song. It seems to me that there is a degree of political messaging in the song but it isn't necessarily partisan. We're probably over-analyzing a song that may actually have a simple and straightforward message.

Anthony went on to emphasize that “Rich Men North of Richmond” is about people, not politics. “It’s hard to get a message out about your political ideology or your belief about the world in three minutes and change. I hate to see that song being weaponized,” he said. “I see the right trying to characterize me as one of their own, and I see the left trying to discredit me, I guess in retaliation. That shit’s got to stop.”


What I don't understand is why Anthony and so many of his fans interpret criticism of the song as an attack on him. I have repeatedly pointed out that he directly attacks short fat people who receive government assistance. That doesn't mean that I think he is a terrible person. It simply means that I think his criticism is unfair and misguided. I also think those lines contradict what he claims is the song's message. The name of the song is Rich Men North of Richmond. Fine, but why is he criticizing poor people based on their physical characteristics?

I agree, poor taste in lyrics with that particular line. I assume his point was to criticize a welfare system that in his view has left many homeless starving in the streets while some on welfare appear to be very well taken care of.[b] There could possibly be some truth in a statement that points out how many in need have slipped through the cracks of our welfare system but it's poorly worded in the song.



He could also just be criticizing what he sees as government waste and inefficiency by the fact that government subsidies actually pay for junk food, and some of the people (based on appearances), might not actually need it, or at least should be limited to the types of food that can be purchased with it

I’m a teacher, and my school has started giving free lunch to all students regardless of income. I’m all for free lunch for low-income students, but I see an incredible amount of waste. Kids will go up in line more than once to just eat the good parts of their lunch and throw out the rest. On days where the menu doesn’t have anything the kids like, many of them will choose not to eat at all. Yes, I understand that these types of subsidies are a small part of government spending, but these things are more visible to the average person. And something tells me that Oliver Anthony probably has a lot of exposure to obese welfare recipients buying fudge rounds with their subsidies.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 05:49     Subject: Rich Men North of Richmond
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This guy wrote a good song for many people who like it and live in his world. And yes, there are fat people on welfare of all races - so I agree that if you are morbidly obese maybe welfare is working too well for many using it.


The bolded reflects so many levels of misunderstanding that it must have taken significant effort to achieve it.


The bold reflects what?

You are on welfare.
Maybe you are one in 10.000 (or more) with a genetic condition or rare disease to make you obese. Most are not suffering from said rare condition.

You are on welfare.
Your are not starving, you are obese.

Why are my tax dollars paying for you to over eat and not exercise, maybe have a job/maybe not and maintain a moderately healthy BMI?

Explain that to me - why should I pay for people who do not work or make enough to feed themselves or family to be fat; and then I pay for their subsequent health issues related to their obesity?

Kind seems like a waste of my money.


There in an entire industry devoted to enticing everyone to eat unhealthy food. Poor people, just like wealthier people, are constantly exposed to that marketing. But, unlike wealthier people, they have fewer alternatives and their government benefits actually incentivize unhealthy food. The poor often live in food deserts and getting to a store that has healthy food may be a challenge. Because fresh foods often spoil quickly, they are generally not the sort of thing you can get if you need your grocery shopping to last for a while.

Moreover, SNAP subsidizes exactly the low cost, low nutrition foods that contribute to obesity. So, even if the poor can get access to healthy foods, they probably can't afford them and are incentivized to purchase less healthy options.

If you don't want to pay for fat people to eat, you will have to pay more so that those people can afford healthier foods. You will probably also have to pay more to increase access to healthy foods. But, I really can't imagine how those of you concerned about fudge rounds would react to a poor person using SNAP or EBT to buy organic fruits and vegetables. I suspect that you actually expect them to eat trash.




Who says the fruits and veggies have to be organic?
Anonymous
Post 08/26/2023 22:37     Subject: Rich Men North of Richmond
I don't think this guy is complaining about fudge rounds because he's making a policy argument. He's discussing the difficulty of living a healthy (physically and mentally) lifestyle while poor, when all the incentives are stacked to make unhealthy choices easier. He's working a crappy job and trying to male better choices, while he could just be on welfare and eat cake. This song is really only relatable to people who have lived several years below the poverty line.
Anonymous
Post 08/26/2023 22:24     Subject: Rich Men North of Richmond
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:None of these dopes can follow the money. Wherever he lives in NC is almost certainly receiving more from the government than they pay in, and it isn’t going mostly to poor people. A lot of it is going to military bases and defense contractors, a lot is Social Security and Medicare, plus military retirement and Tricare since NC has a lot of military retirees. And the benefits that do go to poor people pay almost all the money directly to local businesses and institutions (hospitals, doctors, pharmacies, nursing homes, schools, grocery stores, and their vendors and employees), providing a lot of good jobs in the community. It’s just ridiculous how all these guys think that military contracts are private sector money but payments to hospitals are government waste. When I worked in Congress, the biggest complainers about government spending were retired military working for defense contractors and listening to Rush Limbaugh on the job.


He lives in Farmville, VA


Beautiful country

“With a crime rate of 33 per one thousand residents, Farmville has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities. One's chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime here is one in 30.”
https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/va/farmville/crime.amp

Opiates? Meth? Living off of Northern viriginians taxes isn't enough, apparently ?


From the narrative in his song, I guess we're supposed to understand that it's rich liberal elites from DC putting on disguises, going down to Farmville and committing all those crimes against his neighbors.

Anonymous
Post 08/26/2023 22:14     Subject: Rich Men North of Richmond
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:None of these dopes can follow the money. Wherever he lives in NC is almost certainly receiving more from the government than they pay in, and it isn’t going mostly to poor people. A lot of it is going to military bases and defense contractors, a lot is Social Security and Medicare, plus military retirement and Tricare since NC has a lot of military retirees. And the benefits that do go to poor people pay almost all the money directly to local businesses and institutions (hospitals, doctors, pharmacies, nursing homes, schools, grocery stores, and their vendors and employees), providing a lot of good jobs in the community. It’s just ridiculous how all these guys think that military contracts are private sector money but payments to hospitals are government waste. When I worked in Congress, the biggest complainers about government spending were retired military working for defense contractors and listening to Rush Limbaugh on the job.


He lives in Farmville, VA


Beautiful country

“With a crime rate of 33 per one thousand residents, Farmville has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities. One's chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime here is one in 30.”
https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/va/farmville/crime.amp

Opiates? Meth? Living off of Northern viriginians taxes isn't enough, apparently ?
Anonymous
Post 08/26/2023 22:13     Subject: Rich Men North of Richmond
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This guy wrote a good song for many people who like it and live in his world. And yes, there are fat people on welfare of all races - so I agree that if you are morbidly obese maybe welfare is working too well for many using it.


The bolded reflects so many levels of misunderstanding that it must have taken significant effort to achieve it.


The bold reflects what?

You are on welfare.
Maybe you are one in 10.000 (or more) with a genetic condition or rare disease to make you obese. Most are not suffering from said rare condition.

You are on welfare.
Your are not starving, you are obese.

Why are my tax dollars paying for you to over eat and not exercise, maybe have a job/maybe not and maintain a moderately healthy BMI?

Explain that to me - why should I pay for people who do not work or make enough to feed themselves or family to be fat; and then I pay for their subsequent health issues related to their obesity?

Kind seems like a waste of my money.


There in an entire industry devoted to enticing everyone to eat unhealthy food. Poor people, just like wealthier people, are constantly exposed to that marketing. But, unlike wealthier people, they have fewer alternatives and their government benefits actually incentivize unhealthy food. The poor often live in food deserts and getting to a store that has healthy food may be a challenge. Because fresh foods often spoil quickly, they are generally not the sort of thing you can get if you need your grocery shopping to last for a while.

Moreover, SNAP subsidizes exactly the low cost, low nutrition foods that contribute to obesity. So, even if the poor can get access to healthy foods, they probably can't afford them and are incentivized to purchase less healthy options.

If you don't want to pay for fat people to eat, you will have to pay more so that those people can afford healthier foods. You will probably also have to pay more to increase access to healthy foods. But, I really can't imagine how those of you concerned about fudge rounds would react to a poor person using SNAP or EBT to buy organic fruits and vegetables. I suspect that you actually expect them to eat trash.




We disagree on a lot, but +1
Anonymous
Post 08/26/2023 22:11     Subject: Rich Men North of Richmond
Anonymous wrote:Good god. His lyrics are not that bad.

After winning a Grammy and being the biggest band in earth Axl Rose penned:

“ Immigrants and f@goots
They make no sense to me
They come to our country
And think they'll do as they please
Like start some mini-Iran
Or spread some f#cking disease
And they talk so many goddamn ways
It's all Greek to me”

This guy wrote a good song for many people who like it and live in his world. And yes, there are fat people on welfare of all races - so I agree that if you are morbidly obese maybe welfare is working too well for many using it.


Wow, I did not know that.
jsteele
Post 08/26/2023 22:10     Subject: Rich Men North of Richmond
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This guy wrote a good song for many people who like it and live in his world. And yes, there are fat people on welfare of all races - so I agree that if you are morbidly obese maybe welfare is working too well for many using it.


The bolded reflects so many levels of misunderstanding that it must have taken significant effort to achieve it.


The bold reflects what?

You are on welfare.
Maybe you are one in 10.000 (or more) with a genetic condition or rare disease to make you obese. Most are not suffering from said rare condition.

You are on welfare.
Your are not starving, you are obese.

Why are my tax dollars paying for you to over eat and not exercise, maybe have a job/maybe not and maintain a moderately healthy BMI?

Explain that to me - why should I pay for people who do not work or make enough to feed themselves or family to be fat; and then I pay for their subsequent health issues related to their obesity?

Kind seems like a waste of my money.


There in an entire industry devoted to enticing everyone to eat unhealthy food. Poor people, just like wealthier people, are constantly exposed to that marketing. But, unlike wealthier people, they have fewer alternatives and their government benefits actually incentivize unhealthy food. The poor often live in food deserts and getting to a store that has healthy food may be a challenge. Because fresh foods often spoil quickly, they are generally not the sort of thing you can get if you need your grocery shopping to last for a while.

Moreover, SNAP subsidizes exactly the low cost, low nutrition foods that contribute to obesity. So, even if the poor can get access to healthy foods, they probably can't afford them and are incentivized to purchase less healthy options.

If you don't want to pay for fat people to eat, you will have to pay more so that those people can afford healthier foods. You will probably also have to pay more to increase access to healthy foods. But, I really can't imagine how those of you concerned about fudge rounds would react to a poor person using SNAP or EBT to buy organic fruits and vegetables. I suspect that you actually expect them to eat trash.


Anonymous
Post 08/26/2023 22:03     Subject: Rich Men North of Richmond
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Working class whites flocked to Reagan and demanded a free market economy. Then, after the cold war, they got what they wanted and the free market economy really showed up. Ohnoes! Now the working class whites have to actually compete with the rest of the world. Bring on the fentanyl and sad songs.


Working class whites are not a monolith and you are being simplistic and bigoted in your analysis.


Np. Your white fragility is cute. The vast majority of working class whites voted for the policies( Reagan's trickle down economics) that brought their demographic and economic demise.Cry me an ocean , ok?! If working clas whites aren't monolithic, they've done a poor job at proving it .


Working class people voted for Reagan because they were facing stagflation and were promised a way out. Highly educated economists didn’t know the exact path forward at that time so how on earth can you blame uneducated poor people for what the wealthy stole from them? It was a scam. Not to mention that anyone that isn’t a senior citizen in 2023 was not old enough to vote for Reagan. You are simply a bigot.


If someone forcefully enters your home and takes your belongings without your consent, it's called theft . If a politician tells you that you're being taken advantage of by 'welfare queens driving Cadillacs' and you vote for him, that's neither a scam nor theft. You're a willful participant and can't paint yourself as some kind of victim.
One more thing : An economist is a highly educated person already . No need to say 'highly educated economits' , it's redundant . Furthermore, the idea that economists didn't know the path forward is a lie. Typical uninformed and ignorant republican.
Anonymous
Post 08/26/2023 21:55     Subject: Rich Men North of Richmond
There's something wrong with our society when someone can write about trying and struggling to live a more wholesome life, and its seen as a sinister plot. What exactly is he promoting that is so offensive? Eating nutritious food, quitting drinking, having a sense of personal ownership of decisions, etc. This is what qualifies as offensive, when a poor person sings about it. But it's really the same Whole Foods, disciplined approach that is common in the UMC, so I have wonder why it's so offensive when it comes from a poor person's framing? Or is it just because he dares to create art while poor?
Anonymous
Post 08/26/2023 21:35     Subject: Rich Men North of Richmond
Anonymous wrote:Good god. His lyrics are not that bad.

After winning a Grammy and being the biggest band in earth Axl Rose penned:

“ Immigrants and f@goots
They make no sense to me
They come to our country
And think they'll do as they please
Like start some mini-Iran
Or spread some f#cking disease
And they talk so many goddamn ways
It's all Greek to me”

This guy wrote a good song for many people who like it and live in his world. And yes, there are fat people on welfare of all races - so I agree that if you are morbidly obese maybe welfare is working too well for many using it.


Guns N’ Roses never won a Grammy.

Nominated- did not win.

And there are worse lyrics to one in a million than those - but that was 30 years ago and guns and roses would never and could never exist post 2005.
Anonymous
Post 08/26/2023 21:31     Subject: Rich Men North of Richmond
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This guy wrote a good song for many people who like it and live in his world. And yes, there are fat people on welfare of all races - so I agree that if you are morbidly obese maybe welfare is working too well for many using it.


The bolded reflects so many levels of misunderstanding that it must have taken significant effort to achieve it.


The bold reflects what?

You are on welfare.
Maybe you are one in 10.000 (or more) with a genetic condition or rare disease to make you obese. Most are not suffering from said rare condition.

You are on welfare.
Your are not starving, you are obese.

Why are my tax dollars paying for you to over eat and not exercise, maybe have a job/maybe not and maintain a moderately healthy BMI?

Explain that to me - why should I pay for people who do not work or make enough to feed themselves or family to be fat; and then I pay for their subsequent health issues related to their obesity?

Kind seems like a waste of my money.
jsteele
Post 08/26/2023 19:47     Subject: Rich Men North of Richmond
Anonymous wrote:This guy wrote a good song for many people who like it and live in his world. And yes, there are fat people on welfare of all races - so I agree that if you are morbidly obese maybe welfare is working too well for many using it.


The bolded reflects so many levels of misunderstanding that it must have taken significant effort to achieve it.
Anonymous
Post 08/26/2023 19:41     Subject: Rich Men North of Richmond
Good god. His lyrics are not that bad.

After winning a Grammy and being the biggest band in earth Axl Rose penned:

“ Immigrants and f@goots
They make no sense to me
They come to our country
And think they'll do as they please
Like start some mini-Iran
Or spread some f#cking disease
And they talk so many goddamn ways
It's all Greek to me”

This guy wrote a good song for many people who like it and live in his world. And yes, there are fat people on welfare of all races - so I agree that if you are morbidly obese maybe welfare is working too well for many using it.
Anonymous
Post 08/26/2023 15:12     Subject: Rich Men North of Richmond
Anonymous wrote:Don’t conservatives think being poor is a moral failing? They also cheer when Trump says smart people cheat on taxes. What exactly are they complaining about?

Who is they and what are they complaining about? I believe your post was meant for a different thread.