I'm really glad I have had this forum to post on. It's great to have found like minded people who have the same concerns I do. Until I had a chance to speak out, I thought I was alone. But having other posters validate my complaints has been huge for me.

I'm very grateful to everyone that has posted here. It's given me a lot of solace knowing that.

And I'm thankful the forum creator has created a place like this. I have found a lot of benefit in the advice I have been given, in hearing from other frustrated parents, and in being able to speak out.

Very grateful.

Thank you. Hopefully we can stick to productive content going forward and keep the negativity to a minimum. If someone wants to demonstrate a point, perhaps it would be more productive to point to specific examples of film or invite folks out to watch live action. I think an in person conversation would be great in those cases, so that’s always on the table for any parties interested. I think the practice schedule was posted earlier in this thread, so interested parties know when and where to find us.

Thank you Admin for at least being honest about that. There is plenty that has come from plenty of people and it diminishes the discussion to pretend it is all just one person.

It's easy to pretend it is just one person, but it's not. As I acknowledged, I have certainly been the most vocal because it helps me tremendously to be able to scream to high heaven here. However, the frustration is far wider than anything on this forum can quantify.

Anonymous wrote:Admin—thank you for confirming our (I saw posts other than mine on this) suspicion that the anti-WS “play up” poster was sock puppeting the thread. I think he/she may have stated some intent through projection earlier in the thread when they implied that the WS “defenders” were using the forums and social media being a powerful tool to influence people. Knowing this anti-WS poster has sock puppeted the thread now casts their entire agenda down.

It looks to me like the poster who mentioned the importance of social media was a different poster. That post was quoted several times with some of the replies being in agreement. None of those replies (at least the ones that remain, I deleted others) appear to be from the obsessed poster. So while that poster sock puppetted some posts, he/she didn't sock puppet all of similar posts.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Please keep discussions on the topic of soccer and stop the back and forth bickering. Rather than engaging in pages of name-calling and personal attacks, please use the "report" button to report posters who post such messages.

I have used the report button. Can you remove the posters that have personally attacked specific teenage girls and ban them from the forum? This is cyberbullying. We wouldn't want our kids to talk about teammates like this in a public forum.

The whole thread needs to be deleted as well.

Thanks!

I am not going to delete an entire 60 page thread. Nor do I have time to read the entire thread. So you are going to have to continue reporting specific posts. I have removed posts that you reported.

In addition, I just stumbled across a poster who seems obsessed with "play ups" and was sock puppetting posts. There are few practices that are frowned on more here than sock puppetting. I will provide this single warning to that poster, but if I come across it again, the poster will be blocked.

Admin—thank you for confirming our (I saw posts other than mine on this) suspicion that the anti-WS “play up” poster was sock puppeting the thread. I think he/she may have stated some intent through projection earlier in the thread when they implied that the WS “defenders” were using the forums and social media being a powerful tool to influence people. Knowing this anti-WS poster has sock puppeted the thread now casts their entire agenda down.

That said, again as a WS parent, I’d like to extend my hand to those who aren’t in the club to come out and watch the practices and games. Talk to Coach Torres and the staff, all of whom are capable and accomplished coaches who run organized and excellent training for our girls. As has been stated before by other WS parents, the environment isn’t perfect, just like ANY other club in the area, and I’ve seen plenty with my three DCs over the past 10 years. Yes, WS talent pool isn’t that of the former and current ECNL clubs that had programs and buy-in for years....how could it be after a single year of operation?? I also wouldn’t think of stooping to levels we have heard, calling the players “crappy” and so forth. The vast majority of these girls at all ages are very good soccer players with vision, technical ability, tactical awareness, and hard workers. Please come to the practices so you can see it first hand. There is no curtain, and nothing to hide as has been suggested. After only a year, last year’s teams have improved and it shows in their results, even in the games against FCV when you look at the older age groups. This in spite of the initial takent disadvantage noted above.

In sum, given what we have seen in this thread, the best practice is to rely on those you know in the program, your eyes, and your direct discussions with WS staff and parents. If you were to visit our practices, I’d be more than happy to discuss the good and the bad in person. I have no fear of recrimination or non existent politics that would prevent me from telling you my opinions, in private or with a group of our parents, even coaches, present. But trying to weed through the anonymous commentary here can be very non productive when you have agenda posters using the forum as a cudgel.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Please keep discussions on the topic of soccer and stop the back and forth bickering. Rather than engaging in pages of name-calling and personal attacks, please use the "report" button to report posters who post such messages.

I have used the report button. Can you remove the posters that have personally attacked specific teenage girls and ban them from the forum? This is cyberbullying. We wouldn't want our kids to talk about teammates like this in a public forum.

The whole thread needs to be deleted as well.

Thanks!

I am not going to delete an entire 60 page thread. Nor do I have time to read the entire thread. So you are going to have to continue reporting specific posts. I have removed posts that you reported.

In addition, I just stumbled across a poster who seems obsessed with "play ups" and was sock puppetting posts. There are few practices that are frowned on more here than sock puppetting. I will provide this single warning to that poster, but if I come across it again, the poster will be blocked.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Please keep discussions on the topic of soccer and stop the back and forth bickering. Rather than engaging in pages of name-calling and personal attacks, please use the "report" button to report posters who post such messages.

I have used the report button. Can you remove the posters that have personally attacked specific teenage girls and ban them from the forum? This is cyberbullying. We wouldn't want our kids to talk about teammates like this in a public forum.

The whole thread needs to be deleted as well.

Thanks!

Give it a rest. The Admin has said knock it off to everyone. Now, knock it off.

jsteele wrote:Please keep discussions on the topic of soccer and stop the back and forth bickering. Rather than engaging in pages of name-calling and personal attacks, please use the "report" button to report posters who post such messages.

I have used the report button. Can you remove the posters that have personally attacked specific teenage girls and ban them from the forum? This is cyberbullying. We wouldn't want our kids to talk about teammates like this in a public forum.

The whole thread needs to be deleted as well.

Thanks!

Please keep discussions on the topic of soccer and stop the back and forth bickering. Rather than engaging in pages of name-calling and personal attacks, please use the "report" button to report posters who post such messages.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. Actually posting it here does matter. Whether they admit it or not, all clubs are aware of DCUM. Social Media is important. Coaches pretend this is all 100% BS here, but they secretly read it too. You would never get any of this without the anonymity. And come on people, no one takes anything at pure face value, but it does inform your next steps as to what to get more direct evidence about. I have friends at Spirit that I ask about roster size and play-ups, and, yes, I then get their direct experiences and dissatisfactions. Some about totally different things. I watched the FCV parents too and some did seem like the parents I wouldn't hang with. That angry PP is not entirely made up stuff, but you listen to the anger, and then, hey, you then check this stuff out. I will watch more then one Spirit game, and ask who the play ups are. I don't like the play-ups and think they must have done that to recruit top-tier players so the program can appear more legit. It's prolly a deal with the parents kind of thing. All the beating up on this poster serves no purpose and pushes him to defend and give more specifics, the things you are now scolding him about. The posters giving him suggestions are helpful, but telling him to leave the board is stupid. I am not him, and my daughter is not at Spirit. She is too young, but a good player, so I follow this stuff LIKE ALL OF YOU. Will hopefully help tune me in. Our local club has small rosters, and I like that. I like Spirit pro team, and will make sure to nail down rosters with coaches before I give them my $10K. I will do this at other clubs too of course. Just saying here that stop attacking that guy, he can post here all he wants, and those can stop reading who don't like it. (I am not him, not his friend. Amazed he is so angry that he is really getting into it here, but that is actually helpful. At some point the conversation will turn to new things. It always does.)

+1. The poster brought up valid complaints. If people stop responding, the subject will die, but the more they respond, the more they give the complaints legitimacy, keep the thread going by trying to beat him down and forcing him to be specific. I figure it must be the actual parents of play ups most of the time responding because of the way they respond.

+2 same page. been reading this and wish she would stop making it worse. poster has a valid point and eventually we will move on.

Anonymous wrote:There is now a Spirit complaint thread. It’s a much better forum for him to complain and people interested in the topic can read and respond. If he continues to complain here then he is just trolling to fill this board and dominate the thread and your time - so ignore him.

Excellent! Every time people want to talk about how Spirit operates, we can all hash it out there.

This thread can stay away from all those modus operandum issues.

Thank you.

There is now a Spirit complaint thread. It’s a much better forum for him to complain and people interested in the topic can read and respond. If he continues to complain here then he is just trolling to fill this board and dominate the thread and your time - so ignore him.

Anonymous wrote:

I think maybe it's not clear I'm talking about multiple teams and a club wide problem. So let me be clear. It's not about this girl or this team by itself, although that stinks. The problem is it's every team. This is the way the club is running its teams. That's the ongoing complaint and the ongoing issue.

These girls might be decent in their own age group, but to play up, you have to be able to keep up. If you can't do that, then you shouldn't play up. It doesn't mean you aren't a great player. Great players play in their own age group all the time on multiple teams in multiple clubs. Several are national team players. They still play in their own age group. The point is playing up just to play up to check a box is poor coaching.

They get it. They just don't want to. They want to force the discussion into a corner, not expecting a response. It's typical "fight" talk. We did a whole thing on it at work. Fight talk, control talk, all the ways people express themselves to manipulate others. Fight talk is aggressive, labeling, attempting to sideline.

A PP said go watch the games. Go watch then. That's the best thing out of all of this. Someone has shown there is a curtain to be drawn back. Draw it back: go watch the games, see the practices, count the players, watch the play ups. Something we should all do anyways. This illustrates why.

Anonymous wrote:NP here. Actually posting it here does matter. Whether they admit it or not, all clubs are aware of DCUM. Social Media is important. Coaches pretend this is all 100% BS here, but they secretly read it too. You would never get any of this without the anonymity. And come on people, no one takes anything at pure face value, but it does inform your next steps as to what to get more direct evidence about. I have friends at Spirit that I ask about roster size and play-ups, and, yes, I then get their direct experiences and dissatisfactions. Some about totally different things. I watched the FCV parents too and some did seem like the parents I wouldn't hang with. That angry PP is not entirely made up stuff, but you listen to the anger, and then, hey, you then check this stuff out. I will watch more then one Spirit game, and ask who the play ups are. I don't like the play-ups and think they must have done that to recruit top-tier players so the program can appear more legit. It's prolly a deal with the parents kind of thing. All the beating up on this poster serves no purpose and pushes him to defend and give more specifics, the things you are now scolding him about. The posters giving him suggestions are helpful, but telling him to leave the board is stupid. I am not him, and my daughter is not at Spirit. She is too young, but a good player, so I follow this stuff LIKE ALL OF YOU. Will hopefully help tune me in. Our local club has small rosters, and I like that. I like Spirit pro team, and will make sure to nail down rosters with coaches before I give them my $10K. I will do this at other clubs too of course. Just saying here that stop attacking that guy, he can post here all he wants, and those can stop reading who don't like it. (I am not him, not his friend. Amazed he is so angry that he is really getting into it here, but that is actually helpful. At some point the conversation will turn to new things. It always does.)

+1. The poster brought up valid complaints. If people stop responding, the subject will die, but the more they respond, the more they give the complaints legitimacy, keep the thread going by trying to beat him down and forcing him to be specific. I figure it must be the actual parents of play ups most of the time responding because of the way they respond.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, this is coming from a parent whose DD starts and gets lots of minutes.

If not, I'd go straight to the club and complain directly. But then she'd go from crappy level of play with a lot of time, even if it's with inadequate play ups to finding hersle fo ff the starting line up or even the roster.

Black balling happens.

So now the whole team is a “crappy level of play.” I’m sure that will won friends on the sideline too.

Never said the whole team. But the play ups drag down the level of play for everyone. I'm not sure where it hurts worse: if it's a forward or if it's a midfielder.

It is telling that you’ve never complained about the defense.

Not as much playing up for defenders. The regular play ups are generally midfielders and forwards.

According to the game reports there is only one playup on the 04s. I think you missed the point of the PPs post.

I think maybe it's not clear I'm talking about multiple teams and a club wide problem. So let me be clear. It's not about this girl or this team by itself, although that stinks. The problem is it's every team. This is the way the club is running its teams. That's the ongoing complaint and the ongoing issue.

These girls might be decent in their own age group, but to play up, you have to be able to keep up. If you can't do that, then you shouldn't play up. It doesn't mean you aren't a great player. Great players play in their own age group all the time on multiple teams in multiple clubs. Several are national team players. They still play in their own age group. The point is playing up just to play up to check a box is poor coaching.