Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

If these kids are so so smart why do they have to work so hard? I'm much more impressed by the kid who didn't spend years prepping for the SAT who can get a near perfect score in one sitting. That kid is actually smart.

Talent athletes practice practice practice hard.

I'm all in favor of using IQ scores.

And if those athletes also have pretty high SAT scores that's even more impressive. They are multi talented. It wouldn't be worth giving up the sport to focus on getting another 40 useless points.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

If these kids are so so smart why do they have to work so hard? I'm much more impressed by the kid who didn't spend years prepping for the SAT who can get a near perfect score in one sitting. That kid is actually smart.

That’s the point. There is no scientific evidence that one race is smarter than another. Disparity in IQ scores does not prove that there is racial disparity in INNATE intelligence.

Btw my DS didn’t take ANY SAT prep course. Just bought a couple of books to study himself. Got 1590. Maybe that’s what you call “actually smart.”

The constant refrain in here is that these kids worked so hard. So much harder than all the other kids. And they are prepared to do the work in college, blah blah. They deserve this. I'm talking about those kids. If they have to work so very hard, maybe they don't really have the raw talent necessary to succeed. Maybe universities don't care about all the extra hours spent to eke out every last point on the SAT or GPA at the likely expense of something else. Diminishing returns and all that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

If these kids are so so smart why do they have to work so hard? I'm much more impressed by the kid who didn't spend years prepping for the SAT who can get a near perfect score in one sitting. That kid is actually smart.

That’s the point. There is no scientific evidence that one race is smarter than another. Disparity in IQ scores does not prove that there is racial disparity in INNATE intelligence.

Btw my DS didn’t take ANY SAT prep course. Just bought a couple of books to study himself. Got 1590. Maybe that’s what you call “actually smart.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

If these kids are so so smart why do they have to work so hard? I'm much more impressed by the kid who didn't spend years prepping for the SAT who can get a near perfect score in one sitting. That kid is actually smart.

Talent athletes practice practice practice hard.

I'm all in favor of using IQ scores.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

If it is so easy to drill and discipline, I wonder why the other races are not doing it. The reason they are not doing it is because it takes a lot of effort to discipline a child. There are a lot Asian families that are poor where the parents work in mundane jobs but where the kids education is the priority. It's common saying in among Asians, the first generation works so that the second gen becomes doctors and lawyers and the second generation works so that the third gen has the luxury of doing what they want.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

If these kids are so so smart why do they have to work so hard? I'm much more impressed by the kid who didn't spend years prepping for the SAT who can get a near perfect score in one sitting. That kid is actually smart.

AA actually helps Asians indirectly. The Asian kids are told not to take anything for granted and that they have to work twice as hard to get the same outcome. Meanwhile, blacks and Hispanics who get into top colleges have the stigma of AA. In NY City, many black alumni of Specialized High schools do not want any form of AA for the high school tests because they do not want kids who qualify through the test to have to hear about how they got in only because of AA. Interestingly, there were many more blacks at specialized high schools in in 80s and 90s, wonder what happened that those numbers dropped drastically.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

And there it is. Asian Americans want to be judged on their individual merits as an individual, not dismissed because they are lumped into a category.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

But the kids we are talking about are Asian AMERICAN. Their parents emigrated; they had no choice but to grow up here, become American and exist in this system. They are US citizens and can't just move back to a home country that they will never fit into.

All these hardworking, extremely intelligent asian Americans are supposed to be good soldiers and "take the hit" for American values -- they lose on both on Affirmative Action (wrong race) and on legacy admits( immigrant parents) to these elite schools. So many of these kids are the brightest ones in their high school, and they have to watch as other classmates are accepted while they are not. Of course they are going to get upset.

Well, honestly, if it were me, and I had the option to go to school in another country, I absolutely would. I think some of the posters are cutting off their nose to spite their own face.

But do they have the option of going to school in another country?

These kids are no dual citizens -- they are US citizens. They live here. Their parents live here. Often their aunts and uncles and cousins do too, and maybe their grandparents are still in Asia, but they have passed away by college, so they don't have a real extended family in Asia.

They are American. They are not conditional citizens. They can't just "go back." They have to exist within this system and yes, it's a lottery to get into these school, but kids of other races have "ins", like, again affirmative action and legacy admits, that Asian Americans don't have access to.

Funny how some become racial justice warriors only when their kid gets rejected.

It really boils down to " my Asian American kid doesn't have a hook to get into Harvard like the URMs and ALDCs - unfair! Bwwahhh!"

It's not about being a "racial justice warrior." The question of whether or not Asian Americans are being discriminated against in college admissions is such a legitimate question that it has gone to the Supreme Court. And when Asian Americans who bring it up here, they are being, honestly, gaslighted and made to feel that they are crazy when we can see that it may actually be happening.

The actual numbers prove otherwise. There is no shortage of Asian representation at any highly regarded university in this country. To be honest, their over representation feels more like gaslighting.

+1

Well stated. Wonder if the Supreme Court will notice this, and act accordingly?

Every individual should be viewed and treated as an individual not as a part of a group.

That makes sense. Thank you.

It might make sense but does not necessarily carry the day.


It has NEVER been the case that even elite colleges only wanted high GPA + test scores. They want a range of students, academically, socioeconomically, ethnically, geographically, and with different talents and skills.

But colleges have never just gone down the list of GPA and test scores to build the most academically accomplished class it can. That’s a very narrow idea of what a university is about and what it does. Grades, and to an even greater extent, test scores, measure only a fraction of a person’s abilities. That’s why I really don’t mind holistic admissions. The fact that someone has lower grades and test scores doesn’t equate to that person contributing less to the university than someone with higher ones.

Not true.

Prior to changing the admissions criteria to keep the number of Jews from exploding in Harvard, they didn't look at "holistic" admissions. The only brought in holistic admissions because the number of Jews were getting 'uncomfortable" at Harvard.

and Jews and Asians are perfectly fine with holistic whatever.
They get good scores on ECs, leadership, interview, sports, music, art, essay, whatever
Whatever the rule is, bring it on.

However when they do shit like 'manliness score' or 'likability score', really WTF.
What kind of sick people are rooting for this??

If the Supreme Court strikes down what is going on at Harvard with a specific focus on the likability score, then affirmative action as done at most other schools will be almost completely unaffected. At most schools, that notion might be implicitly built-in to someone's subjective evaluations of the rest of the file, but it wouldn't be expressed in a separate category.

Nobody really know what has been going on with other colleges.
One thing for sure is they must be really careful not to get caught again.
When they get sued, all the data is revealed. Data doesn't lie.

There wouldn't be any data. Schools would adapt and eliminate any explicit criteria like that. You have to then rely upon disparate impact analysis, but I'm not sure this Supreme Court wants to go in that direction because it would ultimately support more affirmative action for URM rather than less.

When there are 50K-100K applications, you have to have some sort of number system, point system, and data.
That's what Harvard had. You think the underpaid AOs really look at individual students as a person and remember them.
Harvard used score system, and Asians getting high scores overall including ECs, leadership, awards, interviews, etc.
So they had to invent the BS likability score. You can't really do the business without data.

Of course, but it's actually not that difficult. Eliminate the separate "likability" score and it will find its way into their evaluation of the other subjective criteria, like the essay for example, or they will just group multiple factors together into a broad score of a set of other criteria.

It's not like admissions "grading" is all that different from grading in HS. Grades in HS inevitably reflect many subjective components. The use of letters and numbers in your GPA make you think they are objective, but in many courses and assignments they really are just the product a lot of subjective judgments in evaluation, which is why a range, rather than a strict numerical ranking, is more appropriate. This is even true in things like math classes, where two students with "right" answers can get different grades based on teachers' subjective decisions about grading criteria, such as prioritizing how they display their answer or how they got to their answer. Some want you to use the exact formula the teacher taught the class and label your work exactly as they specified while others are happy to provide students the flexibility to get there different ways if they explain their work. Teachers also can just add extra assignments or extra credit that preference certain skills or work habits over others.

Same is true for the grades in admissions. How could you possibly think an essay could be evaluated objectively? Two different reviewers are as likely to "grade" an essay differently than grade it the same if you ask them to do anything beyond putting it in broad categories. Plenty of room there for admissions officers to import their personal views into their evaluation of an essay. Heck, the same is true of their evaluation of a student's GPA. They could be biased against certain curricular choices or against certain schools, leading them to downgrade the importance of one kid's GPA that you might argue is nominally higher than another kid's GPA. Even the SAT can include those subjective decisions about how to weight the results (some of which can be made by the Dean of Admissions as a policy, but can also be part of a committee evaluation of a candidate). For example, how you evaluate students who do better on one portion of the test than another, how you deal with superscores, how you deal with splitters (higher GPA than SAT or lower GPA than SAT) etc. Given all these subjective evaluations, it's not difficult at all to understand that the process is inherently not "objective," so it's no leap to expect that the level of subjectivity already existing in whatever residual category a school like Harvard is using now will just find its way into the other criteria in a new admissions system. As there is still scarcity and they have to decide between similar candidates, there is plenty of room for subjective judgments.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

But the kids we are talking about are Asian AMERICAN. Their parents emigrated; they had no choice but to grow up here, become American and exist in this system. They are US citizens and can't just move back to a home country that they will never fit into.

All these hardworking, extremely intelligent asian Americans are supposed to be good soldiers and "take the hit" for American values -- they lose on both on Affirmative Action (wrong race) and on legacy admits( immigrant parents) to these elite schools. So many of these kids are the brightest ones in their high school, and they have to watch as other classmates are accepted while they are not. Of course they are going to get upset.

Well, honestly, if it were me, and I had the option to go to school in another country, I absolutely would. I think some of the posters are cutting off their nose to spite their own face.

But do they have the option of going to school in another country?

These kids are no dual citizens -- they are US citizens. They live here. Their parents live here. Often their aunts and uncles and cousins do too, and maybe their grandparents are still in Asia, but they have passed away by college, so they don't have a real extended family in Asia.

They are American. They are not conditional citizens. They can't just "go back." They have to exist within this system and yes, it's a lottery to get into these school, but kids of other races have "ins", like, again affirmative action and legacy admits, that Asian Americans don't have access to.

Funny how some become racial justice warriors only when their kid gets rejected.

It really boils down to " my Asian American kid doesn't have a hook to get into Harvard like the URMs and ALDCs - unfair! Bwwahhh!"

It's not about being a "racial justice warrior." The question of whether or not Asian Americans are being discriminated against in college admissions is such a legitimate question that it has gone to the Supreme Court. And when Asian Americans who bring it up here, they are being, honestly, gaslighted and made to feel that they are crazy when we can see that it may actually be happening.

The actual numbers prove otherwise. There is no shortage of Asian representation at any highly regarded university in this country. To be honest, their over representation feels more like gaslighting.

+1

Well stated. Wonder if the Supreme Court will notice this, and act accordingly?

Every individual should be viewed and treated as an individual not as a part of a group.

That makes sense. Thank you.

It might make sense but does not necessarily carry the day.


It has NEVER been the case that even elite colleges only wanted high GPA + test scores. They want a range of students, academically, socioeconomically, ethnically, geographically, and with different talents and skills.

But colleges have never just gone down the list of GPA and test scores to build the most academically accomplished class it can. That’s a very narrow idea of what a university is about and what it does. Grades, and to an even greater extent, test scores, measure only a fraction of a person’s abilities. That’s why I really don’t mind holistic admissions. The fact that someone has lower grades and test scores doesn’t equate to that person contributing less to the university than someone with higher ones.

Not true.

Prior to changing the admissions criteria to keep the number of Jews from exploding in Harvard, they didn't look at "holistic" admissions. The only brought in holistic admissions because the number of Jews were getting 'uncomfortable" at Harvard.

and Jews and Asians are perfectly fine with holistic whatever.
They get good scores on ECs, leadership, interview, sports, music, art, essay, whatever
Whatever the rule is, bring it on.

However when they do shit like 'manliness score' or 'likability score', really WTF.
What kind of sick people are rooting for this??

If the Supreme Court strikes down what is going on at Harvard with a specific focus on the likability score, then affirmative action as done at most other schools will be almost completely unaffected. At most schools, that notion might be implicitly built-in to someone's subjective evaluations of the rest of the file, but it wouldn't be expressed in a separate category.

Nobody really know what has been going on with other colleges.
One thing for sure is they must be really careful not to get caught again.
When they get sued, all the data is revealed. Data doesn't lie.

There wouldn't be any data. Schools would adapt and eliminate any explicit criteria like that. You have to then rely upon disparate impact analysis, but I'm not sure this Supreme Court wants to go in that direction because it would ultimately support more affirmative action for URM rather than less.

When there are 50K-100K applications, you have to have some sort of number system, point system, and data.
That's what Harvard had. You think the underpaid AOs really look at individual students as a person and remember them.
Harvard used score system, and Asians getting high scores overall including ECs, leadership, awards, interviews, etc.
So they had to invent the BS likability score. You can't really do the business without data.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s let the census drive the discussion. A university can have up to the maximum per category below. If they don’t get enough applicants per category then they can take the next most qualified from another category.

White - 59.3%
Hispanic - 18.9%
Black -12.6%
Asian - 5.9%
Multiracial - 2.3%
American Indian/Alaska Native - 0.7%
Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander - 0.3%

Exactly. Wow, you must be good with numbers!

To add, there are far more Asians at T20 than the census represents. So, if anything, wouldn't the U.S. Supreme Court reduce the number of Asians admitted to top schools?

Apparently not, the asians and rich white kids only want to go to school with other similar kids. They do not see the value in working to ensure bright blacks and latinos go to top colleges as well. They would not be complaining at all if there were no blacks or hispanics at their school

you're both kind of dumb.

The law doesn't require that a school reflects the population demographics. The law requires that schools do not racially discriminate.

I guess black people don't care about Asians being discriminated. They only care if black people are discriminated against.

See how that works?

Were there any Asian American plaintiffs in the Supreme Court cases claiming discrimination?

No.

A quasi white nationalist attacking voting rights and college access for blacks is merely using Asians as pawns.

Or maybe it's just a troll or two on anonymous forums making the most noise.

The plaintiff is an organization.
An organization doesn't have gender or race.
There are ton of Asian members in the organization.

Any Asian American students who testified in the cases? After all, they are the supposed "victims."

There are a lot of Asian American organizations that filed amicus briefs in the SFFA cases supporting race-conscious college admissions as well.

Asian Americans aren't a monolith.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

What does the % of total population have to do with anything? Is the entire population applying to Harvard?

It's about % of total applicants, not % of total population. The % of total applicants of Asian American is MUCH higher than the total % of URM applicants. So, stands to reason that there would be way more Asian American students admitted.

Harvard case revealed that AOs are basically profiling Asian American students as "not likeable" without ever having met them, even as the Interviewers marked them as "likeable". When cops profiled black people what did the courts state? That profiling was illegal, right?

As to whether URMs are not as smart as Asians... If their scores were as high as Asian Americans, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But that's not the case. So, I'll just leave it at that.

Right, because the poor inner city black or Hispanic kid is working everyday after school to support their family. While your kid is taking test prep classes after school. See the difference?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

But the kids we are talking about are Asian AMERICAN. Their parents emigrated; they had no choice but to grow up here, become American and exist in this system. They are US citizens and can't just move back to a home country that they will never fit into.

All these hardworking, extremely intelligent asian Americans are supposed to be good soldiers and "take the hit" for American values -- they lose on both on Affirmative Action (wrong race) and on legacy admits( immigrant parents) to these elite schools. So many of these kids are the brightest ones in their high school, and they have to watch as other classmates are accepted while they are not. Of course they are going to get upset.

Well, honestly, if it were me, and I had the option to go to school in another country, I absolutely would. I think some of the posters are cutting off their nose to spite their own face.

But do they have the option of going to school in another country?

These kids are no dual citizens -- they are US citizens. They live here. Their parents live here. Often their aunts and uncles and cousins do too, and maybe their grandparents are still in Asia, but they have passed away by college, so they don't have a real extended family in Asia.

They are American. They are not conditional citizens. They can't just "go back." They have to exist within this system and yes, it's a lottery to get into these school, but kids of other races have "ins", like, again affirmative action and legacy admits, that Asian Americans don't have access to.

Funny how some become racial justice warriors only when their kid gets rejected.

It really boils down to " my Asian American kid doesn't have a hook to get into Harvard like the URMs and ALDCs - unfair! Bwwahhh!"

It's not about being a "racial justice warrior." The question of whether or not Asian Americans are being discriminated against in college admissions is such a legitimate question that it has gone to the Supreme Court. And when Asian Americans who bring it up here, they are being, honestly, gaslighted and made to feel that they are crazy when we can see that it may actually be happening.

The actual numbers prove otherwise. There is no shortage of Asian representation at any highly regarded university in this country. To be honest, their over representation feels more like gaslighting.

+1

Well stated. Wonder if the Supreme Court will notice this, and act accordingly?

Every individual should be viewed and treated as an individual not as a part of a group.

That makes sense. Thank you.

It might make sense but does not necessarily carry the day.


It has NEVER been the case that even elite colleges only wanted high GPA + test scores. They want a range of students, academically, socioeconomically, ethnically, geographically, and with different talents and skills.

But colleges have never just gone down the list of GPA and test scores to build the most academically accomplished class it can. That’s a very narrow idea of what a university is about and what it does. Grades, and to an even greater extent, test scores, measure only a fraction of a person’s abilities. That’s why I really don’t mind holistic admissions. The fact that someone has lower grades and test scores doesn’t equate to that person contributing less to the university than someone with higher ones.

Not true.

Prior to changing the admissions criteria to keep the number of Jews from exploding in Harvard, they didn't look at "holistic" admissions. The only brought in holistic admissions because the number of Jews were getting 'uncomfortable" at Harvard.

and Jews and Asians are perfectly fine with holistic whatever.
They get good scores on ECs, leadership, interview, sports, music, art, essay, whatever
Whatever the rule is, bring it on.

However when they do shit like 'manliness score' or 'likability score', really WTF.
What kind of sick people are rooting for this??

If the Supreme Court strikes down what is going on at Harvard with a specific focus on the likability score, then affirmative action as done at most other schools will be almost completely unaffected. At most schools, that notion might be implicitly built-in to someone's subjective evaluations of the rest of the file, but it wouldn't be expressed in a separate category.

Nobody really know what has been going on with other colleges.
One thing for sure is they must be really careful not to get caught again.
When they get sued, all the data is revealed. Data doesn't lie.

There wouldn't be any data. Schools would adapt and eliminate any explicit criteria like that. You have to then rely upon disparate impact analysis, but I'm not sure this Supreme Court wants to go in that direction because it would ultimately support more affirmative action for URM rather than less.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s let the census drive the discussion. A university can have up to the maximum per category below. If they don’t get enough applicants per category then they can take the next most qualified from another category.

White - 59.3%
Hispanic - 18.9%
Black -12.6%
Asian - 5.9%
Multiracial - 2.3%
American Indian/Alaska Native - 0.7%
Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander - 0.3%

Exactly. Wow, you must be good with numbers!

To add, there are far more Asians at T20 than the census represents. So, if anything, wouldn't the U.S. Supreme Court reduce the number of Asians admitted to top schools?

Apparently not, the asians and rich white kids only want to go to school with other similar kids. They do not see the value in working to ensure bright blacks and latinos go to top colleges as well. They would not be complaining at all if there were no blacks or hispanics at their school

you're both kind of dumb.

The law doesn't require that a school reflects the population demographics. The law requires that schools do not racially discriminate.

I guess black people don't care about Asians being discriminated. They only care if black people are discriminated against.

See how that works?

Were there any Asian American plaintiffs in the Supreme Court cases claiming discrimination?

No.

A quasi white nationalist attacking voting rights and college access for blacks is merely using Asians as pawns.

Or maybe it's just a troll or two on anonymous forums making the most noise.

The plaintiff is an organization.
An organization doesn't have gender or race.
There are ton of Asian members in the organization.