Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than depression an anxiety, she didn't have any of these. Are we now claiming that all persons with depression and anxiety are psychotic?

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/understanding-psychosis#:~:text=Symptoms%20of%20psychosis%20include%20delusions,is%20inappropriate%20for%20the%20situation.

What are the signs and symptoms of psychosis?
Typically, a person will show changes in his or her behavior before psychosis develops. Behavioral warning signs for psychosis include:

Sudden drop in grades or job performance
New trouble thinking clearly or concentrating
Suspiciousness, paranoid ideas, or uneasiness with others
Withdrawing socially, spending a lot more time alone than usual
Unusual, overly intense new ideas, strange feelings, or no feelings at all
Decline in self-care or personal hygiene
Difficulty telling reality from fantasy
Confused speech or trouble communicating
Symptoms of psychosis include delusions (false beliefs) and hallucinations (seeing or hearing things that others do not see or hear). Other symptoms include incoherent or nonsense speech and behavior that is inappropriate for the situation. A person in a psychotic episode also may experience depression, anxiety, sleep problems, social withdrawal, lack of motivation, and difficulty functioning overall.

That is an absurd attempt at a gotcha question, like all of them here so far.

You're posting two things here: the first, a list of "behavioral warning signs" (which are typically, but not always, present in psychosis). It includes eight phenomena that also commonly occur in people with depression or anxiety diagnoses and with PPD/PPA. If she was diagnosed with depression or anxiety or PPD/PPA and put on this cocktail of meds, it strongly suggests that at least some of those eight phenomena were present. In fact, the more extreme "warning signs" having been present here under the umbrella of a depression or anxiety diagnosis would explain a lot about why the prescribing physician was cycling so rapidly through different medication options, because things like difficulty telling reality from fantasy would be almost or actually psychotic depression, which is a life-threatening medical emergency.

The other thing you're posting is a list of the symptoms of psychosis. They do not all have to be present for the person to be psychotic under the DSM definition. She may have become psychotic for the first time on the day of this event, or she may have been psychotic and hiding it (which is also extremely common).

I posted one thing. A continuous cut and paste from the link I posted. From the NIH.

She will be declared fit to stand trial because that only refers to her ability to understand the legal proceedings and assist in her defense. If she and her attorney then decide to go for an insanity defense at the time of the murders, they will need to offer proof that is not just "well, my client says she was crazy when it happened and she's really sorry."

This isn't about fitness to stand trial. It's about whether they can prove her guilty of murder, a crime that has malice aforethought as an element.

https://dictionary.law.com/default.aspx?selected=1198#:~:text=malice%20aforethought,for%20the%20lives%20of%20others.
She definitely had malice aforethought. When you strangle someone with an exercise band for several minutes, you definitely know they are going to to die.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She’s paralyzed. she tried to slash her neck open. She is so drugged up she was catatonic in court. She likely tries to kill herself any chance she gets otherwise. I don’t understand the vengeance on here. This woman’s life is already a tragic forfeit.

I don’t care about vengeance I care about saving the next kids whose mom has a psychotic break. Can’t we focus on supporting moms. Maternity care in our country is abysmal. Daycare options are expensive and unavailable. This is the bitter result when people claim to treasure babies in uterine and treat their mothers like cattle.

Thank you. Can we pin this post?

I had a psychotic break during post partum depression following the birth of my twins. I did not qualify for more than a stabilization visit to the hospital but my husband stayed home from work for 8 weeks and my elderly parents came to live with us to provide 24 hour supervision. My inlaws paid for a night nurse for the babies for 8 weeks. My husband is a doctor and he realized just how serious this was. Who knows what would have happened otherwise.

If you knew me as a woman before or after this episode you would never in a million years think me capable of it. Even when I was going through it (directly before and after the episode of psychosis) I was moving through life: breastfeeding, taking the babies to the pediatrician, going on long walks. It wasn't like I was drooling or ragins or muttering or looking "off" or insane. Nothing of the sort.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she knew her kids were dead, why wasn’t her next question, “what happened to them”? Why was the next question “do I need a lawyer?” She knew exactly what she did and she was well aware of what she was doing, when she was doing it.

Psychosis also doesn’t necessarily impair memory.

The denial in this thread about this symptom is really astounding.

Sounds to me like psychosis is pretty damn impossible to prove.

It can also be very hard to disprove. And that is much more true when someone alleging it has recently been on three different antipsychotic medications, among many others.

Well in this case the burden is on the defense to prove psychosis. The prosecution merely has to prove that she killed the kids. That doesn't seem too hard at this point. It will be on the defense to prove she was suffering from psychosis. Not on the state to prove that she wasn't.

This is America. The burden is on the prosecution, where it always belongs. In this case, they have to show that she killed the kids in an act that was a murder (or however they decide to charge it), vs in an act that was a manslaughter or an act that was negligence or an act that was an accident or an act that occurred in a time during which she lacked the capacity to understand the nature of her actions. And the nature of her crime itself, because it correctly shocks the conscience, can also be interpreted as strongly suggesting that she was off her rocker.

This isn't how it works, at all. We don't claim all criminals who commit shocking crimes must have been insane because their crime was so shocking. How moronic.

We actually do this quite regularly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than depression an anxiety, she didn't have any of these. Are we now claiming that all persons with depression and anxiety are psychotic?

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/understanding-psychosis#:~:text=Symptoms%20of%20psychosis%20include%20delusions,is%20inappropriate%20for%20the%20situation.

What are the signs and symptoms of psychosis?
Typically, a person will show changes in his or her behavior before psychosis develops. Behavioral warning signs for psychosis include:

Sudden drop in grades or job performance
New trouble thinking clearly or concentrating
Suspiciousness, paranoid ideas, or uneasiness with others
Withdrawing socially, spending a lot more time alone than usual
Unusual, overly intense new ideas, strange feelings, or no feelings at all
Decline in self-care or personal hygiene
Difficulty telling reality from fantasy
Confused speech or trouble communicating
Symptoms of psychosis include delusions (false beliefs) and hallucinations (seeing or hearing things that others do not see or hear). Other symptoms include incoherent or nonsense speech and behavior that is inappropriate for the situation. A person in a psychotic episode also may experience depression, anxiety, sleep problems, social withdrawal, lack of motivation, and difficulty functioning overall.

That is an absurd attempt at a gotcha question, like all of them here so far.

You're posting two things here: the first, a list of "behavioral warning signs" (which are typically, but not always, present in psychosis). It includes eight phenomena that also commonly occur in people with depression or anxiety diagnoses and with PPD/PPA. If she was diagnosed with depression or anxiety or PPD/PPA and put on this cocktail of meds, it strongly suggests that at least some of those eight phenomena were present. In fact, the more extreme "warning signs" having been present here under the umbrella of a depression or anxiety diagnosis would explain a lot about why the prescribing physician was cycling so rapidly through different medication options, because things like difficulty telling reality from fantasy would be almost or actually psychotic depression, which is a life-threatening medical emergency.

The other thing you're posting is a list of the symptoms of psychosis. They do not all have to be present for the person to be psychotic under the DSM definition. She may have become psychotic for the first time on the day of this event, or she may have been psychotic and hiding it (which is also extremely common).

I posted one thing. A continuous cut and paste from the link I posted. From the NIH.

She will be declared fit to stand trial because that only refers to her ability to understand the legal proceedings and assist in her defense. If she and her attorney then decide to go for an insanity defense at the time of the murders, they will need to offer proof that is not just "well, my client says she was crazy when it happened and she's really sorry."

I understand that you cut and paste one thing from the NIH. But it is a piece of text that contains two conceptually distinct pieces of information: one about warning signs, many of which she probably had, and the other about symptoms, some of which are consistent with her having committed these acts.

You're asserting that she "didn't have any of these," but there is actually pretty good reason to think that she did have these warning signs and may well have had these symptoms.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she knew her kids were dead, why wasn’t her next question, “what happened to them”? Why was the next question “do I need a lawyer?” She knew exactly what she did and she was well aware of what she was doing, when she was doing it.

Psychosis also doesn’t necessarily impair memory.

The denial in this thread about this symptom is really astounding.

Sounds to me like psychosis is pretty damn impossible to prove.

It can also be very hard to disprove. And that is much more true when someone alleging it has recently been on three different antipsychotic medications, among many others.

Well in this case the burden is on the defense to prove psychosis. The prosecution merely has to prove that she killed the kids. That doesn't seem too hard at this point. It will be on the defense to prove she was suffering from psychosis. Not on the state to prove that she wasn't.

This is America. The burden is on the prosecution, where it always belongs. In this case, they have to show that she killed the kids in an act that was a murder (or however they decide to charge it), vs in an act that was a manslaughter or an act that was negligence or an act that was an accident or an act that occurred in a time during which she lacked the capacity to understand the nature of her actions. And the nature of her crime itself, because it correctly shocks the conscience, can also be interpreted as strongly suggesting that she was off her rocker.

This isn't how it works, at all. We don't claim all criminals who commit shocking crimes must have been insane because their crime was so shocking. How moronic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than depression an anxiety, she didn't have any of these. Are we now claiming that all persons with depression and anxiety are psychotic?

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/understanding-psychosis#:~:text=Symptoms%20of%20psychosis%20include%20delusions,is%20inappropriate%20for%20the%20situation.

What are the signs and symptoms of psychosis?
Typically, a person will show changes in his or her behavior before psychosis develops. Behavioral warning signs for psychosis include:

Sudden drop in grades or job performance
New trouble thinking clearly or concentrating
Suspiciousness, paranoid ideas, or uneasiness with others
Withdrawing socially, spending a lot more time alone than usual
Unusual, overly intense new ideas, strange feelings, or no feelings at all
Decline in self-care or personal hygiene
Difficulty telling reality from fantasy
Confused speech or trouble communicating
Symptoms of psychosis include delusions (false beliefs) and hallucinations (seeing or hearing things that others do not see or hear). Other symptoms include incoherent or nonsense speech and behavior that is inappropriate for the situation. A person in a psychotic episode also may experience depression, anxiety, sleep problems, social withdrawal, lack of motivation, and difficulty functioning overall.

That is an absurd attempt at a gotcha question, like all of them here so far.

You're posting two things here: the first, a list of "behavioral warning signs" (which are typically, but not always, present in psychosis). It includes eight phenomena that also commonly occur in people with depression or anxiety diagnoses and with PPD/PPA. If she was diagnosed with depression or anxiety or PPD/PPA and put on this cocktail of meds, it strongly suggests that at least some of those eight phenomena were present. In fact, the more extreme "warning signs" having been present here under the umbrella of a depression or anxiety diagnosis would explain a lot about why the prescribing physician was cycling so rapidly through different medication options, because things like difficulty telling reality from fantasy would be almost or actually psychotic depression, which is a life-threatening medical emergency.

The other thing you're posting is a list of the symptoms of psychosis. They do not all have to be present for the person to be psychotic under the DSM definition. She may have become psychotic for the first time on the day of this event, or she may have been psychotic and hiding it (which is also extremely common).

I posted one thing. A continuous cut and paste from the link I posted. From the NIH.

She will be declared fit to stand trial because that only refers to her ability to understand the legal proceedings and assist in her defense. If she and her attorney then decide to go for an insanity defense at the time of the murders, they will need to offer proof that is not just "well, my client says she was crazy when it happened and she's really sorry."

This isn't about fitness to stand trial. It's about whether they can prove her guilty of murder, a crime that has malice aforethought as an element.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than depression an anxiety, she didn't have any of these. Are we now claiming that all persons with depression and anxiety are psychotic?

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/understanding-psychosis#:~:text=Symptoms%20of%20psychosis%20include%20delusions,is%20inappropriate%20for%20the%20situation.

What are the signs and symptoms of psychosis?
Typically, a person will show changes in his or her behavior before psychosis develops. Behavioral warning signs for psychosis include:

Sudden drop in grades or job performance
New trouble thinking clearly or concentrating
Suspiciousness, paranoid ideas, or uneasiness with others
Withdrawing socially, spending a lot more time alone than usual
Unusual, overly intense new ideas, strange feelings, or no feelings at all
Decline in self-care or personal hygiene
Difficulty telling reality from fantasy
Confused speech or trouble communicating
Symptoms of psychosis include delusions (false beliefs) and hallucinations (seeing or hearing things that others do not see or hear). Other symptoms include incoherent or nonsense speech and behavior that is inappropriate for the situation. A person in a psychotic episode also may experience depression, anxiety, sleep problems, social withdrawal, lack of motivation, and difficulty functioning overall.

That is an absurd attempt at a gotcha question, like all of them here so far.

You're posting two things here: the first, a list of "behavioral warning signs" (which are typically, but not always, present in psychosis). It includes eight phenomena that also commonly occur in people with depression or anxiety diagnoses and with PPD/PPA. If she was diagnosed with depression or anxiety or PPD/PPA and put on this cocktail of meds, it strongly suggests that at least some of those eight phenomena were present. In fact, the more extreme "warning signs" having been present here under the umbrella of a depression or anxiety diagnosis would explain a lot about why the prescribing physician was cycling so rapidly through different medication options, because things like difficulty telling reality from fantasy would be almost or actually psychotic depression, which is a life-threatening medical emergency.

The other thing you're posting is a list of the symptoms of psychosis. They do not all have to be present for the person to be psychotic under the DSM definition. She may have become psychotic for the first time on the day of this event, or she may have been psychotic and hiding it (which is also extremely common).

I posted one thing. A continuous cut and paste from the link I posted. From the NIH.

She will be declared fit to stand trial because that only refers to her ability to understand the legal proceedings and assist in her defense. If she and her attorney then decide to go for an insanity defense at the time of the murders, they will need to offer proof that is not just "well, my client says she was crazy when it happened and she's really sorry."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than depression an anxiety, she didn't have any of these. Are we now claiming that all persons with depression and anxiety are psychotic?

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/understanding-psychosis#:~:text=Symptoms%20of%20psychosis%20include%20delusions,is%20inappropriate%20for%20the%20situation.

What are the signs and symptoms of psychosis?
Typically, a person will show changes in his or her behavior before psychosis develops. Behavioral warning signs for psychosis include:

Sudden drop in grades or job performance
New trouble thinking clearly or concentrating
Suspiciousness, paranoid ideas, or uneasiness with others
Withdrawing socially, spending a lot more time alone than usual
Unusual, overly intense new ideas, strange feelings, or no feelings at all
Decline in self-care or personal hygiene
Difficulty telling reality from fantasy
Confused speech or trouble communicating
Symptoms of psychosis include delusions (false beliefs) and hallucinations (seeing or hearing things that others do not see or hear). Other symptoms include incoherent or nonsense speech and behavior that is inappropriate for the situation. A person in a psychotic episode also may experience depression, anxiety, sleep problems, social withdrawal, lack of motivation, and difficulty functioning overall.

That is an absurd attempt at a gotcha question, like all of them here so far.

You're posting two things here: the first, a list of "behavioral warning signs" (which are typically, but not always, present in psychosis). It includes eight phenomena that also commonly occur in people with depression or anxiety diagnoses and with PPD/PPA. If she was diagnosed with depression or anxiety or PPD/PPA and put on this cocktail of meds, it strongly suggests that at least some of those eight phenomena were present. In fact, the more extreme "warning signs" having been present here under the umbrella of a depression or anxiety diagnosis would explain a lot about why the prescribing physician was cycling so rapidly through different medication options, because things like difficulty telling reality from fantasy would be almost or actually psychotic depression, which is a life-threatening medical emergency.

The other thing you're posting is a list of the symptoms of psychosis. They do not all have to be present for the person to be psychotic under the DSM definition. She may have become psychotic for the first time on the day of this event, or she may have been psychotic and hiding it (which is also extremely common).

I posted one thing. A continuous cut and paste from the link I posted. From the NIH.

She will be declared fit to stand trial because that only refers to her ability to understand the legal proceedings and assist in her defense. If she and her attorney then decide to go for an insanity defense at the time of the murders, they will need to offer proof that is not just "well, my client says she was crazy when it happened and she's really sorry."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She’s paralyzed. she tried to slash her neck open. She is so drugged up she was catatonic in court. She likely tries to kill herself any chance she gets otherwise. I don’t understand the vengeance on here. This woman’s life is already a tragic forfeit.

I don’t care about vengeance I care about saving the next kids whose mom has a psychotic break. Can’t we focus on supporting moms. Maternity care in our country is abysmal. Daycare options are expensive and unavailable. This is the bitter result when people claim to treasure babies in uterine and treat their mothers like cattle.

Thank you. Can we pin this post?

I had a psychotic break during post partum depression following the birth of my twins. I did not qualify for more than a stabilization visit to the hospital but my husband stayed home from work for 8 weeks and my elderly parents came to live with us to provide 24 hour supervision. My inlaws paid for a night nurse for the babies for 8 weeks. My husband is a doctor and he realized just how serious this was. Who knows what would have happened otherwise.

If you knew me as a woman before or after this episode you would never in a million years think me capable of it. Even when I was going through it (directly before and after the episode of psychosis) I was moving through life: breastfeeding, taking the babies to the pediatrician, going on long walks. It wasn't like I was drooling or ragins or muttering or looking "off" or insane. Nothing of the sort.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than depression an anxiety, she didn't have any of these. Are we now claiming that all persons with depression and anxiety are psychotic?

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/understanding-psychosis#:~:text=Symptoms%20of%20psychosis%20include%20delusions,is%20inappropriate%20for%20the%20situation.

What are the signs and symptoms of psychosis?
Typically, a person will show changes in his or her behavior before psychosis develops. Behavioral warning signs for psychosis include:

Sudden drop in grades or job performance
New trouble thinking clearly or concentrating
Suspiciousness, paranoid ideas, or uneasiness with others
Withdrawing socially, spending a lot more time alone than usual
Unusual, overly intense new ideas, strange feelings, or no feelings at all
Decline in self-care or personal hygiene
Difficulty telling reality from fantasy
Confused speech or trouble communicating
Symptoms of psychosis include delusions (false beliefs) and hallucinations (seeing or hearing things that others do not see or hear). Other symptoms include incoherent or nonsense speech and behavior that is inappropriate for the situation. A person in a psychotic episode also may experience depression, anxiety, sleep problems, social withdrawal, lack of motivation, and difficulty functioning overall.

That is an absurd attempt at a gotcha question, like all of them here so far.

You're posting two things here: the first, a list of "behavioral warning signs" (which are typically, but not always, present in psychosis). It includes eight phenomena that also commonly occur in people with depression or anxiety diagnoses and with PPD/PPA. If she was diagnosed with depression or anxiety or PPD/PPA and put on this cocktail of meds, it strongly suggests that at least some of those eight phenomena were present. In fact, the more extreme "warning signs" having been present here under the umbrella of a depression or anxiety diagnosis would explain a lot about why the prescribing physician was cycling so rapidly through different medication options, because things like difficulty telling reality from fantasy would be almost or actually psychotic depression, which is a life-threatening medical emergency.

The other thing you're posting is a list of the symptoms of psychosis. They do not all have to be present for the person to be psychotic under the DSM definition. She may have become psychotic for the first time on the day of this event, or she may have been psychotic and hiding it (which is also extremely common).

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like members of Lindsay’s Army of love are here and passionately defending a child murderer. Babies and children can be slaughtered but the opportunity to defend a homely, white, professionally unaccomplished, pill popping and attention seeking failure must never be squandered. The projection is real.

Anonymous wrote:She’s paralyzed. she tried to slash her neck open. She is so drugged up she was catatonic in court. She likely tries to kill herself any chance she gets otherwise. I don’t understand the vengeance on here. This woman’s life is already a tragic forfeit.

I don’t care about vengeance I care about saving the next kids whose mom has a psychotic break. Can’t we focus on supporting moms. Maternity care in our country is abysmal. Daycare options are expensive and unavailable. This is the bitter result when people claim to treasure babies in uterine and treat their mothers like cattle.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she knew her kids were dead, why wasn’t her next question, “what happened to them”? Why was the next question “do I need a lawyer?” She knew exactly what she did and she was well aware of what she was doing, when she was doing it.

Psychosis also doesn’t necessarily impair memory.

The denial in this thread about this symptom is really astounding.

Sounds to me like psychosis is pretty damn impossible to prove.

It can also be very hard to disprove. And that is much more true when someone alleging it has recently been on three different antipsychotic medications, among many others.

Well in this case the burden is on the defense to prove psychosis. The prosecution merely has to prove that she killed the kids. That doesn't seem too hard at this point. It will be on the defense to prove she was suffering from psychosis. Not on the state to prove that she wasn't.

This is America. The burden is on the prosecution, where it always belongs. In this case, they have to show that she killed the kids in an act that was a murder (or however they decide to charge it), vs in an act that was a manslaughter or an act that was negligence or an act that was an accident or an act that occurred in a time during which she lacked the capacity to understand the nature of her actions. And the nature of her crime itself, because it correctly shocks the conscience, can also be interpreted as strongly suggesting that she was off her rocker.

If she is deemed fit to stand trial, the burden is on the defense to claim insanity. Not the prosecution to claim she wasn't insane. The state just has to prove the elements of the crime, which are all there, including evidence of premeditation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she knew her kids were dead, why wasn’t her next question, “what happened to them”? Why was the next question “do I need a lawyer?” She knew exactly what she did and she was well aware of what she was doing, when she was doing it.

Psychosis also doesn’t necessarily impair memory.

The denial in this thread about this symptom is really astounding.

Sounds to me like psychosis is pretty damn impossible to prove.

It can also be very hard to disprove. And that is much more true when someone alleging it has recently been on three different antipsychotic medications, among many others.

+1 the threshold is “beyond a reasonable doubt”. Given her medical and mental health history leading up to this day, that’s going to be a rough standard to unanimously agree to.