Why are people excusing this monster and his parents??

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The school district, superintendent, and principal will and should have their pants sued off. Backwater idiots. The district is relatively tiny with only 7,000 total kids [note: Michigan does NOT have county-wide districts], and the payroll is full of white folks making six-figures, with superintendent Timothy Throne making over $204,000 in wages alone.

Source: https://www.mackinac.org/salaries?report=education&search=&sort=wage2020-desc&filter=oxford

+1 The teachers did everything right and the administration… did not.

The genius bloated brass of the 7,000 kid district:

Superintendent - Timothy Throne - $204,022

Asst. superintendent - Kenneth Weaver - $157,946

Asst. superintendent - Denise Sweat - $150,223

High school principal - Steven Wolf - $134,832

All 4 should be unemployed on Monday. And the principal and anyone else who knew about this kid’s issues should be charged with crimes.

Maybe consider getting this mad at the NRA and the gun culture in this country. I completely disagree with you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not every parent of a school shooter deserves to be charged, but these people do.
Imagine being called to school and shown a picture that your child drew of someone shot and bleeding, with the comments he wrote on it. Imagine leaving the school without your child that day, despite knowing that you purchased a gun for him just a few days earlier.
This is absolutely negligent behavior. They KNEW he had access to a gun. He drew that picture, he wrote those words, and his parents weren't bothered enough to take immediate action to be sure that he couldn't hurt anyone?!
This goes beyond bad parenting. They had a duty to ensure that the gun wasn't with him when they saw that picture. THEY COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS TRAGEDY. Four innocent other KIDS are dead because these two didn't speak up/act appropriately with the knowledge they had.

I agree but I think the mother is mentally ill. Truly mentally ill.

Not every shitty person is mentally ill.

And mentally ill people can understand consequences and stand trial. They are not all unfit to do so. The defense attorneys were so cocky - they are clearly going with the “our clients couldn’t have done a thing!” defense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not every parent of a school shooter deserves to be charged, but these people do.
Imagine being called to school and shown a picture that your child drew of someone shot and bleeding, with the comments he wrote on it. Imagine leaving the school without your child that day, despite knowing that you purchased a gun for him just a few days earlier.
This is absolutely negligent behavior. They KNEW he had access to a gun. He drew that picture, he wrote those words, and his parents weren't bothered enough to take immediate action to be sure that he couldn't hurt anyone?!
This goes beyond bad parenting. They had a duty to ensure that the gun wasn't with him when they saw that picture. THEY COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS TRAGEDY. Four innocent other KIDS are dead because these two didn't speak up/act appropriately with the knowledge they had.

I agree but I think the mother is mentally ill. Truly mentally ill.

Not every shitty person is mentally ill.

Anonymous wrote:Not every parent of a school shooter deserves to be charged, but these people do.
Imagine being called to school and shown a picture that your child drew of someone shot and bleeding, with the comments he wrote on it. Imagine leaving the school without your child that day, despite knowing that you purchased a gun for him just a few days earlier.
This is absolutely negligent behavior. They KNEW he had access to a gun. He drew that picture, he wrote those words, and his parents weren't bothered enough to take immediate action to be sure that he couldn't hurt anyone?!
This goes beyond bad parenting. They had a duty to ensure that the gun wasn't with him when they saw that picture. THEY COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS TRAGEDY. Four innocent other KIDS are dead because these two didn't speak up/act appropriately with the knowledge they had.

I agree but I think the mother is mentally ill. Truly mentally ill.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The middle class and upper middle class "haves" in this exurb live in the sprawl in brand new subdivisions. Here's a $560k example.



The poor "have nots" live in the old run down side of town where houses go for $70k to $170k. Much of "this side of the tracks" are rentals. Here's a $150k example. The Crumbley's home was purchased for only $72,000 in 2018.

How is this relevant? It doesn’t matter what their income is. Plenty of “have not” parents in urban areas raise gang members that commit various crimes, ruin lives, and kill innocent people. Where is the outrage at the terrible parents raising gang members? They often have guns at home too. And they often know their kid is involved in crime and say nothing. Are they somehow better? Or does it not matter as much because the innocent people their kids kill are not white kids in school.

I think it's relevant to paint the picture of their "have not" class status because this is a low SES family, no college education, strongly suspected of substance abuse issues, very likely did not even have health insurance -- yet the highly credentialed six-figure salary "experts" at this tiny school district encouraged them to send their teen to a high-dollar psychotherapist and then put him back in the classroom?

Superintendent - Timothy Throne - $204,022
Asst. superintendent - Kenneth Weaver - $157,946
Asst. superintendent - Denise Sweat - $150,223
High school principal - Steven Wolf - $134,832
Asst. high school principal - Kurt Nuss - $122,804
Asst. high school principal - Kristy Gibson-Marshall - $122,761

Source: https://www.mackinac.org/salaries?report=education...rt=wage2020-desc&filter=oxford

NY Post quotes the father's ex has saying he earned 6 figures.

Whether or not there is insurance school could have still insisted they take him home and assisted with referrals to agencies that provide sliding scale counseling. Michigan has public health centers (these do exist across the country, probably not enough but yes, they do exist) based on ability to pay. Such places usually start with an intake even though it can take longer to set up ongoing services. It would have been an easy way for all the adults concerned to cover their ass, if nothing else, and likely would have dampened the crisis effect the kid was feeling. And they might have been able to determine if the kid did in fact need to be hospitalized.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The middle class and upper middle class "haves" in this exurb live in the sprawl in brand new subdivisions. Here's a $560k example.



The poor "have nots" live in the old run down side of town where houses go for $70k to $170k. Much of "this side of the tracks" are rentals. Here's a $150k example. The Crumbley's home was purchased for only $72,000 in 2018.

How is this relevant? It doesn’t matter what their income is. Plenty of “have not” parents in urban areas raise gang members that commit various crimes, ruin lives, and kill innocent people. Where is the outrage at the terrible parents raising gang members? They often have guns at home too. And they often know their kid is involved in crime and say nothing. Are they somehow better? Or does it not matter as much because the innocent people their kids kill are not white kids in school.

I think it's relevant to paint the picture of their "have not" class status because this is a low SES family, no college education, strongly suspected of substance abuse issues, very likely did not even have health insurance -- yet the highly credentialed six-figure salary "experts" at this tiny school district encouraged them to send their teen to a high-dollar psychotherapist and then put him back in the classroom?

Superintendent - Timothy Throne - $204,022
Asst. superintendent - Kenneth Weaver - $157,946
Asst. superintendent - Denise Sweat - $150,223
High school principal - Steven Wolf - $134,832
Asst. high school principal - Kurt Nuss - $122,804
Asst. high school principal - Kristy Gibson-Marshall - $122,761

Source: https://www.mackinac.org/salaries?report=education...rt=wage2020-desc&filter=oxford

The father is an account exec at an office supply company and the mother is a director of marketing. STFU with this speculative nonsense trying to excuse these shitty people.

Anonymous wrote:Not every parent of a school shooter deserves to be charged, but these people do.
Imagine being called to school and shown a picture that your child drew of someone shot and bleeding, with the comments he wrote on it. Imagine leaving the school without your child that day, despite knowing that you purchased a gun for him just a few days earlier.
This is absolutely negligent behavior. They KNEW he had access to a gun. He drew that picture, he wrote those words, and his parents weren't bothered enough to take immediate action to be sure that he couldn't hurt anyone?!
This goes beyond bad parenting. They had a duty to ensure that the gun wasn't with him when they saw that picture. THEY COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS TRAGEDY. Four innocent other KIDS are dead because these two didn't speak up/act appropriately with the knowledge they had.

This. This is ALL that matters. Not their income, or where they lived. This and only this. I hope and pray they get the max.

Anonymous wrote:Not every parent of a school shooter deserves to be charged, but these people do.
Imagine being called to school and shown a picture that your child drew of someone shot and bleeding, with the comments he wrote on it. Imagine leaving the school without your child that day, despite knowing that you purchased a gun for him just a few days earlier.
This is absolutely negligent behavior. They KNEW he had access to a gun. He drew that picture, he wrote those words, and his parents weren't bothered enough to take immediate action to be sure that he couldn't hurt anyone?!
This goes beyond bad parenting. They had a duty to ensure that the gun wasn't with him when they saw that picture. THEY COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS TRAGEDY. Four innocent other KIDS are dead because these two didn't speak up/act appropriately with the knowledge they had.

I agree with you.

This could also have been prevented if the school had called 911, and the child been taken in for a Psych Consult. OR if they had inspected his backpack for weapons.

MY heart goes out to the teachers who were so alert and vigilant. They reported the red flags that they saw, and it still happened.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine waking up one morning and realizing as a couple you're facing 30 years in jail AND $1 million in property bonds for something you didn't even do. What a time to be a parent.

It’s just ridiculous.

People need to start thinking of parenting as a job and a commitment. The rest of us don't deserve to live in fear because you had a kid and chose to let him run wild.

Former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe says charges against the parents of Michigan school shooter Ethan Crumbley are 'unprecedented' but 'absolutely called for'

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why didn’t the school MAKE them take him home?

They can't. He might be "in a certain situation" (before all this), which gives him more "protections" and his parents have more say, if they know the loopholes.

Also, 4th Amendment - schools can't just search and seize property. Same reason Langley and other high schools got rid of lockers. Not worth the hassle with bad kids and their bad parents.

As we have seen here, where do you think these kids learn their behaviors?

1) they had reasonable suspicion to search backpack
2)even without a search, they could have should have notified police, made a report, and had the kid brought home (for to a psych hospital). But they school didn’t because the parents were being a PIA and they thought it would just be easier to send him back to class than to poke a hornets nest (the ahole parents)

The PARENTS should have insisted on searching the backpack. If I’m sitting in a principals office with my husband and kid, having this discussion about disturbing drawings, my first thought would be….mmmmm… and hubby bought junior a gun, just four days ago. Sweetie I’m fine if you want to stay at school today but let’s just look in your backpack and make sure nothing is there that shouldn’t be. And if he refuses to open it? Well, we do have a problem

How hard is this, for parents who are rational and connected to their kids?

The 4th amendment standard is different in schools, although it's a long time since I read about this. And even if there was some kind of situation providing "protections" this note would have certainly permitted the school to contact authorities (even CPS) to ensure an immediate psych assessment, which can be done in an ER (they call in a psych social worker typically to do this).

I doubt this kid was on an IEP though. But even if he was, you can still suspend a kid on an IEP (whether the above would constitute a suspension idk, but I would doubt it). If it is for 10 days or there has been a pattern of suspensions accumulating to 10 days mandates an IEP team meeting to determine if the issue is disability related, that's all.

Not every parent of a school shooter deserves to be charged, but these people do.
Imagine being called to school and shown a picture that your child drew of someone shot and bleeding, with the comments he wrote on it. Imagine leaving the school without your child that day, despite knowing that you purchased a gun for him just a few days earlier.
This is absolutely negligent behavior. They KNEW he had access to a gun. He drew that picture, he wrote those words, and his parents weren't bothered enough to take immediate action to be sure that he couldn't hurt anyone?!
This goes beyond bad parenting. They had a duty to ensure that the gun wasn't with him when they saw that picture. THEY COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS TRAGEDY. Four innocent other KIDS are dead because these two didn't speak up/act appropriately with the knowledge they had.

Just coming in to comment after hearing on NPR this morning about the note. Which included the statement that the kid felt his life was useless and also the phrase "Please help me", besides the references to guns and shooting and blood.

That would be enough--whether you are a highly educated administrator, a working class parent without advanced education--to see this as, at minimum, suicidal thinking, which is often linked to homicidal thinking and acts. My own roots are working class and many of my family is still working class. None of us would abandon a kid at the school after seeing something like that, and I have a hard time understanding that school administrators would not see this as an emergency, whether or not they knew the kid had access to a weapon.

Not to undermine the tragedy experienced by the victims and their families, this is an awful tragedy for the kid as well.

FWIW I did have a sibling who had angry outbursts, and in the midst of one went in his bedroom and shot and killed himself. Strangely, a week later in our small town another kid his age shot and killed his mother during an argument, so I have always seen these acts as two sides of the same coin. As an adult, I have always taken ANY indication of suicidal thinking very seriously and found some way to act--whether calling 911 or something else.

Anonymous wrote:Did this kid have violent outbursts before this event? Someone posted that upthread.

He was playing with Molotov cocktails in the backyard.

Anonymous wrote:Did this kid have violent outbursts before this event? Someone posted that upthread.

I am guessing yes, which is why many kids may have avoided him.