DCUM Forum

Anonymous

04/19/2013 14:12 Subject: Re:Prepping/Scamming the Cogat

If every one had access to sample tests ( and tests were valid) there would be no issue. Performance will follow a Bell shaped curve and children of recent American immigrants will still outperform all the rest in every zip code in America including FCPS.

I vote for access to all sample tests (just like SAT and the like) schools use (like teachers) to evaluate students.

At the end of the day, there will be superb students, average students and dudes. It ain't about cheating. The establishment is simply frustrated. They have been beat at their game. No amount of rule changes will change the ultimate result. Sorry to burst your bubble. the solution is the work hard like all the rest.

Transparency and access for all!

Anonymous

04/19/2013 14:09 Subject: Re:Prepping/Scamming the Cogat

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the folly of the school system for using a single test easily mimicked by learned parents and students (in their day to day "test prep" interaction with their children) as a major determinant for AAP admission. No parent will stop reading and playing fun mental games with their children for the sake of Carol of AAP concern they may be cheating. Give me a break, lady.

This is not the sole basis of AAP. THERE IS THE NNAT, the GBRS and the other input. What has happen, practically, is because of the test prep industry, the CogAT has been down weighted compared to the GBRS and student performance. That has pissed of people whose kids that aced the tests, but then get rejected because of a low GBRS. That only happens because of the test prep industry. An average to below average kid who performs at the very advanced (130+ on the CogAT) level is either a) prepped, or b) a genius.

The county can not tell. They make there own decisions.

Frankly my personal opinion is the county should come out with a clear statement on prepping for the CogAT/FXAT and NNAT. Say the thinking in the most unambiguous way. Something like "Test Prep for the CogAT violates the spirit of the test"

What if a kid tests well on NNAT/CoGAT without prep but the GBRS and work performance is not exemplary. Don’t you think it is unfair to these kids? My DC is only in 1st grade and did very well on the NNAT (99 percentile). If it were up to her current teacher she would probably receive a low assessment for GBRS and for work performance. She’s bored out of her mind. I believe the teacher actually knows this but does not have the capability to provide anything additional for my DC. The teacher has her bring her own books to school and sends her to the literacy center to read for long stretches of time to keep her occupied.
I just hope the 2nd grade teacher sees her potential and judges her more accurately.

Yes. It is unfair. Unfortunately, that is what the test preppers have brought.

People suck!

Anonymous

04/19/2013 13:11 Subject: Prepping/Scamming the Cogat

And to clarify...I am referring to preparing my child for an education. That is the chapter and verse I am asking for. Please research and share. Otherwise, please shut up!

Anonymous

04/19/2013 13:11 Subject: Re:Prepping/Scamming the Cogat

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

FCPS does have some legal standings as the test admistinstrator. And there are moral and ethical issues which drive the legal standing.

If you are not happy with FCPS, move elsewhere or send your kids to private. I do not need your tea bagger attidutudes poluting my dd

Please quote me the chapter and verse in state and/or federal law that you are referring to? I tell you there is NONE! I LOVE FCPS and would never move. Who siad I'm not happy with FCPS? I think FCPS is great!

You want to cheat. CLearly....I am glad I am not your kids. They will be running the Next Enron, as they have grown up without the moral fiber to understand the differance between legal and ethical.

FCPS has a legal responsibility to run the schools in a manner that provides equal opertunity. It has the legal responibility to Riverside who makes the test. I did not nessisarily say criminal, but legal.

Much of legal stuff is contractual based, which is civil.

You are looking for the legal loopholes to do things that are probably un ethical. I work as a government contractor. I can not prep my bids by obtaining inside information on my competitors. If I do and am caught, I lose my job. I might go to jail.

You are confusing not being caught with being legal.

Lighten up Francis. FCPS has not said that using the commercially available test prep materials is "cheating." You're working yourself into a frazzle over this.
Mercer is doing a public service. Is this a great country or what?

Anonymous

04/19/2013 13:10 Subject: Prepping/Scamming the Cogat

Just quote me the chapter and verse about how to raise my kids and I will shut up!

Anonymous

04/19/2013 12:56 Subject: Prepping/Scamming the Cogat

Also, you do not have the rights you think you have. There are a lot of things the state can restrict. For example, you do not have the right to print your own money. You do not have the right to house nuclear weapons in your house.

Anonymous

04/19/2013 12:55 Subject: Re:Prepping/Scamming the Cogat

Anonymous wrote:

FCPS does have some legal standings as the test admistinstrator. And there are moral and ethical issues which drive the legal standing.

If you are not happy with FCPS, move elsewhere or send your kids to private. I do not need your tea bagger attidutudes poluting my dd

Please quote me the chapter and verse in state and/or federal law that you are referring to? I tell you there is NONE! I LOVE FCPS and would never move. Who siad I'm not happy with FCPS? I think FCPS is great!

Anonymous

04/19/2013 12:49 Subject: Re:Prepping/Scamming the Cogat

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the folly of the school system for using a single test easily mimicked by learned parents and students (in their day to day "test prep" interaction with their children) as a major determinant for AAP admission. No parent will stop reading and playing fun mental games with their children for the sake of Carol of AAP concern they may be cheating. Give me a break, lady.

This is not the sole basis of AAP. THERE IS THE NNAT, the GBRS and the other input. What has happen, practically, is because of the test prep industry, the CogAT has been down weighted compared to the GBRS and student performance. That has pissed of people whose kids that aced the tests, but then get rejected because of a low GBRS. That only happens because of the test prep industry. An average to below average kid who performs at the very advanced (130+ on the CogAT) level is either a) prepped, or b) a genius.

The county can not tell. They make there own decisions.

Frankly my personal opinion is the county should come out with a clear statement on prepping for the CogAT/FXAT and NNAT. Say the thinking in the most unambiguous way. Something like "Test Prep for the CogAT violates the spirit of the test"

What if a kid tests well on NNAT/CoGAT without prep but the GBRS and work performance is not exemplary. Don’t you think it is unfair to these kids? My DC is only in 1st grade and did very well on the NNAT (99 percentile). If it were up to her current teacher she would probably receive a low assessment for GBRS and for work performance. She’s bored out of her mind. I believe the teacher actually knows this but does not have the capability to provide anything additional for my DC. The teacher has her bring her own books to school and sends her to the literacy center to read for long stretches of time to keep her occupied.
I just hope the 2nd grade teacher sees her potential and judges her more accurately.

Yes. It is unfair. Unfortunately, that is what the test preppers have brought.

Anonymous

04/19/2013 12:45 Subject: Re:Prepping/Scamming the Cogat

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the folly of the school system for using a single test easily mimicked by learned parents and students (in their day to day "test prep" interaction with their children) as a major determinant for AAP admission. No parent will stop reading and playing fun mental games with their children for the sake of Carol of AAP concern they may be cheating. Give me a break, lady.

This is not the sole basis of AAP. THERE IS THE NNAT, the GBRS and the other input. What has happen, practically, is because of the test prep industry, the CogAT has been down weighted compared to the GBRS and student performance. That has pissed of people whose kids that aced the tests, but then get rejected because of a low GBRS. That only happens because of the test prep industry. An average to below average kid who performs at the very advanced (130+ on the CogAT) level is either a) prepped, or b) a genius.

The county can not tell. They make there own decisions.

Frankly my personal opinion is the county should come out with a clear statement on prepping for the CogAT/FXAT and NNAT. Say the thinking in the most unambiguous way. Something like "Test Prep for the CogAT violates the spirit of the test"

What if a kid tests well on NNAT/CoGAT without prep but the GBRS and work performance is not exemplary. Don’t you think it is unfair to these kids? My DC is only in 1st grade and did very well on the NNAT (99 percentile). If it were up to her current teacher she would probably receive a low assessment for GBRS and for work performance. She’s bored out of her mind. I believe the teacher actually knows this but does not have the capability to provide anything additional for my DC. The teacher has her bring her own books to school and sends her to the literacy center to read for long stretches of time to keep her occupied.
I just hope the 2nd grade teacher sees her potential and judges her more accurately.

Anonymous

04/19/2013 12:20 Subject: Re:Prepping/Scamming the Cogat

FCPS does have some legal standings as the test admistinstrator. And there are moral and ethical issues which drive the legal standing.

If you are not happy with FCPS, move elsewhere or send your kids to private. I do not need your tea bagger attidutudes poluting my dd

Anonymous

04/19/2013 10:46 Subject: Re:Prepping/Scamming the Cogat

I have "test prepped" my children for most of their exams without buying anything commercial. My children claim I am a better teacher than any one they have had in their educational lives. They aced GoCAT and aced SAT exams in middle school. They are also on top of their school work. This is precisely what any loving educated and engaged parent does for their young. Feeds, nurtures, protects and teaches them the ropes so kids can thrive in the world.

No one -- including lady Carol of AAP, FCPS or Judge in the US -- can prevent a parent from educating their children even when a learned parent can easily predict the objectives, aims, scope of any test in the K through 12 world! One doesn't not need to buy "commercial materials" to prepare or "test prep" school aged kids. Where do you draw the line between "test prep" and day to day engagement that resembles the subject/topic matter and scope of tests in SAT, PSAT, GoCAT, geo Bee, spelling Bee, math olympiad, science, literature and Jeopardy! You can't draw that line in many settings. No one is talking about "commercial" test prep... if any fool here can even define this. (CTY, EPGY, Thinkwell, AoPS, BrainPop, Khan Academy, Cousersa and on and on). Are these commercial entitities? Should one ban kids from the internet and threat educational websites like sex and porn?

Only a fool thinks "test prep" is limited to commercial materials. Non commercial "test prep" can be an equal or more effective method.

You are not going to censor school teachers and learned savvy parents for innate talent of teaching and parenting? Even when the child comes home and tells you that 90% of what was on the exam or test she had been exposed to at home over the last 5 years.

Common sense must prevail here. The issue is not "test prep" (commercial or noncommercial, business or non business, engaged vs non engaged parents). The issue lies with idiotic bureaucrats and how they use the idiotic tests and evaluate our kids.