Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s let the census drive the discussion. A university can have up to the maximum per category below. If they don’t get enough applicants per category then they can take the next most qualified from another category.

White - 59.3%
Hispanic - 18.9%
Black -12.6%
Asian - 5.9%
Multiracial - 2.3%
American Indian/Alaska Native - 0.7%
Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander - 0.3%

Exactly. Wow, you must be good with numbers!

To add, there are far more Asians at T20 than the census represents. So, if anything, wouldn't the U.S. Supreme Court reduce the number of Asians admitted to top schools?

Apparently not, the asians and rich white kids only want to go to school with other similar kids. They do not see the value in working to ensure bright blacks and latinos go to top colleges as well. They would not be complaining at all if there were no blacks or hispanics at their school

you're both kind of dumb.

The law doesn't require that a school reflects the population demographics. The law requires that schools do not racially discriminate.

I guess black people don't care about Asians being discriminated. They only care if black people are discriminated against.

See how that works?

Were there any Asian American plaintiffs in the Supreme Court cases claiming discrimination?

No.

A quasi white nationalist attacking voting rights and college access for blacks is merely using Asians as pawns.

Or maybe it's just a troll or two on anonymous forums making the most noise.

It’s ironic to say this—the Asians are now the torchbearers of American Puritanism. Hard work and discipline.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

But the kids we are talking about are Asian AMERICAN. Their parents emigrated; they had no choice but to grow up here, become American and exist in this system. They are US citizens and can't just move back to a home country that they will never fit into.

All these hardworking, extremely intelligent asian Americans are supposed to be good soldiers and "take the hit" for American values -- they lose on both on Affirmative Action (wrong race) and on legacy admits( immigrant parents) to these elite schools. So many of these kids are the brightest ones in their high school, and they have to watch as other classmates are accepted while they are not. Of course they are going to get upset.

Well, honestly, if it were me, and I had the option to go to school in another country, I absolutely would. I think some of the posters are cutting off their nose to spite their own face.

But do they have the option of going to school in another country?

These kids are no dual citizens -- they are US citizens. They live here. Their parents live here. Often their aunts and uncles and cousins do too, and maybe their grandparents are still in Asia, but they have passed away by college, so they don't have a real extended family in Asia.

They are American. They are not conditional citizens. They can't just "go back." They have to exist within this system and yes, it's a lottery to get into these school, but kids of other races have "ins", like, again affirmative action and legacy admits, that Asian Americans don't have access to.

I don't understand what you are talking about. Every year, thousands of American-born and bred kids go to school in Canada, UK, Europe, etc. They aren't dual citizens or have any family or friends in these countries...they just made a conscious decision to go abroad for college.

How is it any different than your kids deciding to go abroad to the many top Chinese/HK/Singapore/India colleges? How is it any different than the thousands of native Chinese, Indians, etc. who attend college in the US?

Thank you for raising this issue.

Americans go abroad for college because (wait for it)

There is no room at American colleges.

Are you beginning to understand now?

It's totally the opposite actually.
There are 4000+ colleges in the US.

The seats are much smaller in other countries.
They are more controlled.

Yup - but people want an "answer" to "how to get in" to T20, and there is no answer.

The "answer" is to let your kid shine at being themselves, not shine at how good their tutor is. But supposedly that is a rubbish, lazy, White American idea, and only certain schools will do, and only having an "answer", through tutors, etc. will do.

What they have been told all this time is not working (or the "answer"), and people are upset, and think it is some kind of "conspiracy" to keep Asians out, when it clearly is not.

And you smartly recognize that no matter how "excellent your resume is" you may still not gain admission to the school of your dreams. That is okay, it happens to most people and you will be just fine attending your next choices. You are not entitled to an elite university admissions

As long as it was a fair competition.
If there was a racial discrimination, that's a totally different story.
The US Supreme Court will stop to that.

When 95% of the applicants are rejected, that means many many highly qualified applicants are rejected. Hard to distinguish the differences between applicants and say why exactly they were not admitted. Fact is Harvard turns away many many highly qualified candidates---over 50K applicants were told NO, despite the fact 45K+ of the rejected were likely highly qualified.

That's why we have the US Supreme Court.
Let's wait for the decision.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s let the census drive the discussion. A university can have up to the maximum per category below. If they don’t get enough applicants per category then they can take the next most qualified from another category.

White - 59.3%
Hispanic - 18.9%
Black -12.6%
Asian - 5.9%
Multiracial - 2.3%
American Indian/Alaska Native - 0.7%
Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander - 0.3%

Exactly. Wow, you must be good with numbers!

To add, there are far more Asians at T20 than the census represents. So, if anything, wouldn't the U.S. Supreme Court reduce the number of Asians admitted to top schools?

Apparently not, the asians and rich white kids only want to go to school with other similar kids. They do not see the value in working to ensure bright blacks and latinos go to top colleges as well. They would not be complaining at all if there were no blacks or hispanics at their school

you're both kind of dumb.

The law doesn't require that a school reflects the population demographics. The law requires that schools do not racially discriminate.

I guess black people don't care about Asians being discriminated. They only care if black people are discriminated against.

See how that works?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

It is a discrimination if you ask for higher standard to an individual because of certain race.
Not sure about smart, but Asians seem to care more about education and try harder.

On the side note, many of the studies say Asians have higher IQ on the average, but I think those data has flaws.
https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

What does the % of total population have to do with anything? Is the entire population applying to Harvard?

It's about % of total applicants, not % of total population. The % of total applicants of Asian American is MUCH higher than the total % of URM applicants. So, stands to reason that there would be way more Asian American students admitted.

Harvard case revealed that AOs are basically profiling Asian American students as "not likeable" without ever having met them, even as the Interviewers marked them as "likeable". When cops profiled black people what did the courts state? That profiling was illegal, right?

As to whether URMs are not as smart as Asians... If their scores were as high as Asian Americans, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But that's not the case. So, I'll just leave it at that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

But the kids we are talking about are Asian AMERICAN. Their parents emigrated; they had no choice but to grow up here, become American and exist in this system. They are US citizens and can't just move back to a home country that they will never fit into.

All these hardworking, extremely intelligent asian Americans are supposed to be good soldiers and "take the hit" for American values -- they lose on both on Affirmative Action (wrong race) and on legacy admits( immigrant parents) to these elite schools. So many of these kids are the brightest ones in their high school, and they have to watch as other classmates are accepted while they are not. Of course they are going to get upset.

Well, honestly, if it were me, and I had the option to go to school in another country, I absolutely would. I think some of the posters are cutting off their nose to spite their own face.

But do they have the option of going to school in another country?

These kids are no dual citizens -- they are US citizens. They live here. Their parents live here. Often their aunts and uncles and cousins do too, and maybe their grandparents are still in Asia, but they have passed away by college, so they don't have a real extended family in Asia.

They are American. They are not conditional citizens. They can't just "go back." They have to exist within this system and yes, it's a lottery to get into these school, but kids of other races have "ins", like, again affirmative action and legacy admits, that Asian Americans don't have access to.

I don't understand what you are talking about. Every year, thousands of American-born and bred kids go to school in Canada, UK, Europe, etc. They aren't dual citizens or have any family or friends in these countries...they just made a conscious decision to go abroad for college.

How is it any different than your kids deciding to go abroad to the many top Chinese/HK/Singapore/India colleges? How is it any different than the thousands of native Chinese, Indians, etc. who attend college in the US?

Thank you for raising this issue.

Americans go abroad for college because (wait for it)

There is no room at American colleges.

Are you beginning to understand now?

It's totally the opposite actually.
There are 4000+ colleges in the US.

The seats are much smaller in other countries.
They are more controlled.

Yup - but people want an "answer" to "how to get in" to T20, and there is no answer.

The "answer" is to let your kid shine at being themselves, not shine at how good their tutor is. But supposedly that is a rubbish, lazy, White American idea, and only certain schools will do, and only having an "answer", through tutors, etc. will do.

What they have been told all this time is not working (or the "answer"), and people are upset, and think it is some kind of "conspiracy" to keep Asians out, when it clearly is not.

And you smartly recognize that no matter how "excellent your resume is" you may still not gain admission to the school of your dreams. That is okay, it happens to most people and you will be just fine attending your next choices. You are not entitled to an elite university admissions

As long as it was a fair competition.
If there was a racial discrimination, that's a totally different story.
The US Supreme Court will stop to that.

When 95% of the applicants are rejected, that means many many highly qualified applicants are rejected. Hard to distinguish the differences between applicants and say why exactly they were not admitted. Fact is Harvard turns away many many highly qualified candidates---over 50K applicants were told NO, despite the fact 45K+ of the rejected were likely highly qualified.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

But the kids we are talking about are Asian AMERICAN. Their parents emigrated; they had no choice but to grow up here, become American and exist in this system. They are US citizens and can't just move back to a home country that they will never fit into.

All these hardworking, extremely intelligent asian Americans are supposed to be good soldiers and "take the hit" for American values -- they lose on both on Affirmative Action (wrong race) and on legacy admits( immigrant parents) to these elite schools. So many of these kids are the brightest ones in their high school, and they have to watch as other classmates are accepted while they are not. Of course they are going to get upset.

Well, honestly, if it were me, and I had the option to go to school in another country, I absolutely would. I think some of the posters are cutting off their nose to spite their own face.

But do they have the option of going to school in another country?

These kids are no dual citizens -- they are US citizens. They live here. Their parents live here. Often their aunts and uncles and cousins do too, and maybe their grandparents are still in Asia, but they have passed away by college, so they don't have a real extended family in Asia.

They are American. They are not conditional citizens. They can't just "go back." They have to exist within this system and yes, it's a lottery to get into these school, but kids of other races have "ins", like, again affirmative action and legacy admits, that Asian Americans don't have access to.

I don't understand what you are talking about. Every year, thousands of American-born and bred kids go to school in Canada, UK, Europe, etc. They aren't dual citizens or have any family or friends in these countries...they just made a conscious decision to go abroad for college.

How is it any different than your kids deciding to go abroad to the many top Chinese/HK/Singapore/India colleges? How is it any different than the thousands of native Chinese, Indians, etc. who attend college in the US?

Thank you for raising this issue.

Americans go abroad for college because (wait for it)

There is no room at American colleges.

Are you beginning to understand now?

It's totally the opposite actually.
There are 4000+ colleges in the US.

The seats are much smaller in other countries.
They are more controlled.

Yup - but people want an "answer" to "how to get in" to T20, and there is no answer.

The "answer" is to let your kid shine at being themselves, not shine at how good their tutor is. But supposedly that is a rubbish, lazy, White American idea, and only certain schools will do, and only having an "answer", through tutors, etc. will do.

What they have been told all this time is not working (or the "answer"), and people are upset, and think it is some kind of "conspiracy" to keep Asians out, when it clearly is not.

And you smartly recognize that no matter how "excellent your resume is" you may still not gain admission to the school of your dreams. That is okay, it happens to most people and you will be just fine attending your next choices. You are not entitled to an elite university admissions

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

But the kids we are talking about are Asian AMERICAN. Their parents emigrated; they had no choice but to grow up here, become American and exist in this system. They are US citizens and can't just move back to a home country that they will never fit into.

All these hardworking, extremely intelligent asian Americans are supposed to be good soldiers and "take the hit" for American values -- they lose on both on Affirmative Action (wrong race) and on legacy admits( immigrant parents) to these elite schools. So many of these kids are the brightest ones in their high school, and they have to watch as other classmates are accepted while they are not. Of course they are going to get upset.

Well, honestly, if it were me, and I had the option to go to school in another country, I absolutely would. I think some of the posters are cutting off their nose to spite their own face.

But do they have the option of going to school in another country?

These kids are no dual citizens -- they are US citizens. They live here. Their parents live here. Often their aunts and uncles and cousins do too, and maybe their grandparents are still in Asia, but they have passed away by college, so they don't have a real extended family in Asia.

They are American. They are not conditional citizens. They can't just "go back." They have to exist within this system and yes, it's a lottery to get into these school, but kids of other races have "ins", like, again affirmative action and legacy admits, that Asian Americans don't have access to.

I don't understand what you are talking about. Every year, thousands of American-born and bred kids go to school in Canada, UK, Europe, etc. They aren't dual citizens or have any family or friends in these countries...they just made a conscious decision to go abroad for college.

How is it any different than your kids deciding to go abroad to the many top Chinese/HK/Singapore/India colleges? How is it any different than the thousands of native Chinese, Indians, etc. who attend college in the US?

Thank you for raising this issue.

Americans go abroad for college because (wait for it)

There is no room at American colleges.

Are you beginning to understand now?

It's totally the opposite actually.
There are 4000+ colleges in the US.

The seats are much smaller in other countries.
They are more controlled.

Yup - but people want an "answer" to "how to get in" to T20, and there is no answer.

The "answer" is to let your kid shine at being themselves, not shine at how good their tutor is. But supposedly that is a rubbish, lazy, White American idea, and only certain schools will do, and only having an "answer", through tutors, etc. will do.

What they have been told all this time is not working (or the "answer"), and people are upset, and think it is some kind of "conspiracy" to keep Asians out, when it clearly is not.

And you smartly recognize that no matter how "excellent your resume is" you may still not gain admission to the school of your dreams. That is okay, it happens to most people and you will be just fine attending your next choices. You are not entitled to an elite university admissions

As long as it was a fair competition.
If there was a racial discrimination, that's a totally different story.
The US Supreme Court will stop to that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s let the census drive the discussion. A university can have up to the maximum per category below. If they don’t get enough applicants per category then they can take the next most qualified from another category.

White - 59.3%
Hispanic - 18.9%
Black -12.6%
Asian - 5.9%
Multiracial - 2.3%
American Indian/Alaska Native - 0.7%
Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander - 0.3%

Exactly. Wow, you must be good with numbers!

To add, there are far more Asians at T20 than the census represents. So, if anything, wouldn't the U.S. Supreme Court reduce the number of Asians admitted to top schools?

Apparently not, the asians and rich white kids only want to go to school with other similar kids. They do not see the value in working to ensure bright blacks and latinos go to top colleges as well. They would not be complaining at all if there were no blacks or hispanics at their school

If there were no Blacks or Hispanics at a certain school, only thing we need to make sure is that there was no racial discrimination.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

But the kids we are talking about are Asian AMERICAN. Their parents emigrated; they had no choice but to grow up here, become American and exist in this system. They are US citizens and can't just move back to a home country that they will never fit into.

All these hardworking, extremely intelligent asian Americans are supposed to be good soldiers and "take the hit" for American values -- they lose on both on Affirmative Action (wrong race) and on legacy admits( immigrant parents) to these elite schools. So many of these kids are the brightest ones in their high school, and they have to watch as other classmates are accepted while they are not. Of course they are going to get upset.

Well, honestly, if it were me, and I had the option to go to school in another country, I absolutely would. I think some of the posters are cutting off their nose to spite their own face.

But do they have the option of going to school in another country?

These kids are no dual citizens -- they are US citizens. They live here. Their parents live here. Often their aunts and uncles and cousins do too, and maybe their grandparents are still in Asia, but they have passed away by college, so they don't have a real extended family in Asia.

They are American. They are not conditional citizens. They can't just "go back." They have to exist within this system and yes, it's a lottery to get into these school, but kids of other races have "ins", like, again affirmative action and legacy admits, that Asian Americans don't have access to.

Funny how some become racial justice warriors only when their kid gets rejected.

It really boils down to " my Asian American kid doesn't have a hook to get into Harvard like the URMs and ALDCs - unfair! Bwwahhh!"

It's not about being a "racial justice warrior." The question of whether or not Asian Americans are being discriminated against in college admissions is such a legitimate question that it has gone to the Supreme Court. And when Asian Americans who bring it up here, they are being, honestly, gaslighted and made to feel that they are crazy when we can see that it may actually be happening.

The actual numbers prove otherwise. There is no shortage of Asian representation at any highly regarded university in this country. To be honest, their over representation feels more like gaslighting.

+1

Well stated. Wonder if the Supreme Court will notice this, and act accordingly?

Every individual should be viewed and treated as an individual not as a part of a group.

That makes sense. Thank you.

It might make sense but does not necessarily carry the day.


It has NEVER been the case that even elite colleges only wanted high GPA + test scores. They want a range of students, academically, socioeconomically, ethnically, geographically, and with different talents and skills.

But colleges have never just gone down the list of GPA and test scores to build the most academically accomplished class it can. That’s a very narrow idea of what a university is about and what it does. Grades, and to an even greater extent, test scores, measure only a fraction of a person’s abilities. That’s why I really don’t mind holistic admissions. The fact that someone has lower grades and test scores doesn’t equate to that person contributing less to the university than someone with higher ones.

But to the rich kids (both white and asian) who have been prepping their kids for Ivy or bust since they were born, they do not seem smart enough to recognize that gpa and sat alone is not what most colleges are looking for. No, their 1600 kid is not smarter than the kid with a 1450---both are really smart and the 1450 might just bring more to the table overall once you look outside test taking. So much goes into picking the right kids for each T25 school (and even those lower ranked). Interests, majors, demographics, economic background, etc....all play a role. But these parents can only respond with "but my kid got a 1590 and is smarter than everyone else". Maybe therein lies the issues---the kid is a robot, programmed to excel at test taking, getting good grades and participating in activities that check the boxes for college, but the kid is not the highly motivated, change the world go getter that Harvard is looking for. In reality the "special sauce"/"it factor"/"likeability"/EQ whatever you want to call it does help them decide who is the best fit. But also you've gotta recognize that even then, they will still turn away many more than they accept who are the whole picture and would make excellent students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s let the census drive the discussion. A university can have up to the maximum per category below. If they don’t get enough applicants per category then they can take the next most qualified from another category.

White - 59.3%
Hispanic - 18.9%
Black -12.6%
Asian - 5.9%
Multiracial - 2.3%
American Indian/Alaska Native - 0.7%
Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander - 0.3%

Exactly. Wow, you must be good with numbers!

To add, there are far more Asians at T20 than the census represents. So, if anything, wouldn't the U.S. Supreme Court reduce the number of Asians admitted to top schools?

Apparently not, the asians and rich white kids only want to go to school with other similar kids. They do not see the value in working to ensure bright blacks and latinos go to top colleges as well. They would not be complaining at all if there were no blacks or hispanics at their school

They want to go best possible school.
They are color blind when it comes to academics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s let the census drive the discussion. A university can have up to the maximum per category below. If they don’t get enough applicants per category then they can take the next most qualified from another category.

White - 59.3%
Hispanic - 18.9%
Black -12.6%
Asian - 5.9%
Multiracial - 2.3%
American Indian/Alaska Native - 0.7%
Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander - 0.3%

Exactly. Wow, you must be good with numbers!

To add, there are far more Asians at T20 than the census represents. So, if anything, wouldn't the U.S. Supreme Court reduce the number of Asians admitted to top schools?

Apparently not, the asians and rich white kids only want to go to school with other similar kids. They do not see the value in working to ensure bright blacks and latinos go to top colleges as well. They would not be complaining at all if there were no blacks or hispanics at their school