Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Looks to me like you are afraid to meet with a muslim.

I grew up among them, married one, gave birth to one and am carrying another, you ninny. There's nothing remotely scary about most of them.

Any muslim man that married a woman with such rank hatred of his religion is probably going to be asked by Allah WHY he married you and allowed you to be responsible for raising muslim children. I want front seats for that questioning. One has to ask if he is a true Muslim.

That question is moot. In Islam, the child of a Muslim man is Muslim.

It's not like he has a real choice about it, especially in certain Muslim countries, where, if he found that Muslim beliefs didn't really fit him and he'd really be another religion or none at all, he'd be guilt of apostasy and subject to capital punishment. So yes he is Muslim but he may not buy into very little of it.

Thus he may feel very little compunction about marrying an intelligent woman who has the wit to question a certain tenets of his titular Islam and laughs with him about Muslim women who call into religion radio shows to ask if she can undress in a room where she thinks a male jinn may be present.

I am not the PP who is married to the Muslim and mother of two Muslims (one in utero).

And news flash-- if a man does not accept major tenets of Islam, he's not Muslim.

You are being purposely obtuse again. Islamic law does not permit people born Muslims who don't practice and don't care--those you would considered to not be true Muslims--to change their civil status to nonMuslim. Islamic law says such Muslims are indeed Muslims and cannot change that without risking apostasy charges. You are stuck with it all your life, as are your children and their children, at least for all matters dealing with civil status.

I am quite sure you know this--you just choose to attack PP and her husband instead of addressing the fact that Islam really doesn't envision freedom of religion.

^^^^^^conceptions should be conception

Just to clarify - the immaculate conceptions refers to the conception of Mary, not the conception of Jesus. This is a Roman Catholic belief. The Orthodox (who greatly venerate Mary) and Protestants do not have this belief.

The Blessed Mother of Our Lord Jesus Christ is so full of love that she is praying for all of you - Muslim, atheist, Christian, etc. She is not deterred by hate or disbelief. Neither is her Son.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:Just stopping by to give you a short Salam my dear,

The Prophet saw said that deeds of people would be presented to Allah every week on two days, Monday and Thursday, and every believing servant would be granted pardon except the one in whose (heart) there is rancour against his brother and it would be said: Leave them and put them off until they are turned to reconciliation ( Muslim)! Today is Thursday, may our good deeds be presented to the Most Merciful, ma salaama ~

So true. Thank you for your gentle reminder. I think its time for me to refer this thread & others over to a few anti defamation and Islamic relations groups and bow out, especially now that I see this posters unwillingness to learn Quranic Arabic or talk to any scholar. I have been replying but trying to keep my cool. But I did read in the Quran the other day that Allah wants us to leave such people to Him to deal with. I shall do both.

Please say a dua for me.

Reading between the lines, since you've been called out for your gross insults, now you're going with threats.

But we do now have a definition of an Islam hater: Someone who refuses to learn Quranic Arabic or talk to an Islamic scholar.

I see. Might they also be a christianevangelicalcrusader with STDs and no teeth? That would narrow the pool a little. Otherwise that description fits pretty much anyone non-Muslim, and a big old chunk of Muslims.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:Just stopping by to give you a short Salam my dear,

The Prophet saw said that deeds of people would be presented to Allah every week on two days, Monday and Thursday, and every believing servant would be granted pardon except the one in whose (heart) there is rancour against his brother and it would be said: Leave them and put them off until they are turned to reconciliation ( Muslim)! Today is Thursday, may our good deeds be presented to the Most Merciful, ma salaama ~

So true. Thank you for your gentle reminder. I think its time for me to refer this thread & others over to a few anti defamation and Islamic relations groups and bow out, especially now that I see this posters unwillingness to learn Quranic Arabic or talk to any scholar. I have been replying but trying to keep my cool. But I did read in the Quran the other day that Allah wants us to leave such people to Him to deal with. I shall do both.

Please say a dua for me.

"Now that I have failed to make a remotely persuasive argument, keep my cool, or refrain from insulting people who disagree with me, it's time for me pretend there are groups out there who are capable of doing anything about the fact that a group of anonymous posters on an Internet forum found some tenets of Islam unattractive." Go cry on Ibrahim Hooper's chest.

I have quote Monty Python: "What are you gonna do? Bleed on me?"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:Just stopping by to give you a short Salam my dear,

The Prophet saw said that deeds of people would be presented to Allah every week on two days, Monday and Thursday, and every believing servant would be granted pardon except the one in whose (heart) there is rancour against his brother and it would be said: Leave them and put them off until they are turned to reconciliation ( Muslim)! Today is Thursday, may our good deeds be presented to the Most Merciful, ma salaama ~

So true. Thank you for your gentle reminder. I think its time for me to refer this thread & others over to a few anti defamation and Islamic relations groups and bow out, especially now that I see this posters unwillingness to learn Quranic Arabic or talk to any scholar. I have been replying but trying to keep my cool. But I did read in the Quran the other day that Allah wants us to leave such people to Him to deal with. I shall do both.

Please say a dua for me.

Reading between the lines, since you've been called out for your gross insults, now you're going with threats.

But we do now have a definition of an Islam hater: Someone who refuses to learn Quranic Arabic or talk to an Islamic scholar.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:Just stopping by to give you a short Salam my dear,

The Prophet saw said that deeds of people would be presented to Allah every week on two days, Monday and Thursday, and every believing servant would be granted pardon except the one in whose (heart) there is rancour against his brother and it would be said: Leave them and put them off until they are turned to reconciliation ( Muslim)! Today is Thursday, may our good deeds be presented to the Most Merciful, ma salaama ~

So true. Thank you for your gentle reminder. I think its time for me to refer this thread & others over to a few anti defamation and Islamic relations groups and bow out, especially now that I see this posters unwillingness to learn Quranic Arabic or talk to any scholar. I have been replying but trying to keep my cool. But I did read in the Quran the other day that Allah wants us to leave such people to Him to deal with. I shall do both.

Please say a dua for me.

Did you really think you could motivate anyone to learn the Quranic Arabic? Most Muslims don't know Quranic Arabic. Go pick on them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Looks to me like you are afraid to meet with a muslim.

I grew up among them, married one, gave birth to one and am carrying another, you ninny. There's nothing remotely scary about most of them.

Any muslim man that married a woman with such rank hatred of his religion is probably going to be asked by Allah WHY he married you and allowed you to be responsible for raising muslim children. I want front seats for that questioning. One has to ask if he is a true Muslim.

Have you spent any time in KSA? Your easy hand with takfir reminds me of a certain population.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:Just stopping by to give you a short Salam my dear,

The Prophet saw said that deeds of people would be presented to Allah every week on two days, Monday and Thursday, and every believing servant would be granted pardon except the one in whose (heart) there is rancour against his brother and it would be said: Leave them and put them off until they are turned to reconciliation ( Muslim)! Today is Thursday, may our good deeds be presented to the Most Merciful, ma salaama ~

So true. Thank you for your gentle reminder. I think its time for me to refer this thread & others over to a few anti defamation and Islamic relations groups and bow out, especially now that I see this posters unwillingness to learn Quranic Arabic or talk to any scholar. I have been replying but trying to keep my cool. But I did read in the Quran the other day that Allah wants us to leave such people to Him to deal with. I shall do both.

Please say a dua for me.

Reading between the lines, since you've been called out for your gross insults, now you're going with threats.

You just can't stop yourself from spinning threads to make it look like you were even remotely persuasive.

Anonymous wrote:[

Oh puhhhhhleassseeee. And for anybody who really wants a laugh, a summary of this thread and the genuine "challenges" Muslim posters faced:

...

Muslim: the sura Muslima quoted showed that Islam made women politically relevant
IslamHater: No, it was an admission for membership into the Prophets tribe.
Muslim: yes, and that an oath was administered for entry into his tribe makes her politically relevant because more oaths= more power
IslamHater: okay, but then its at least discriminatory because the same oath was not administered to men. <note the deflection again>
Muslim: ummm, yes it was. A group of men took the oath in the treaty under the tree, to become members of his tribe and pledge allegiance to the Prophet.
IslamHater: <silence>

And there you have it folks. These are not challenges. They are pitiful misunderstandings based on her google ability, TV shows about Indonesian children, radio shows airing uneducated listener comments who she likes to mock, and reliance on unreliable, literal English translations of the holy Quran.

Here's what you actually said, right in the middle of the debate on whether women had the vote 1400 years ago, on page 35 if anybody wants to go back and see for themselves:

10/10/2014 01:20

Anonymous wrote:[Muslima, I'm just an ignorant, barefoot, veiled Muslim gal. Can you explain to me what it means to be a very American woman? Does it mean she's wearing a baseball cap, her boyfriend's boxers, a nose ring, a few tattoos, and eating apple pie? ??

10/10/2014 01:07

Anonymous wrote:Post a pic of your last pap smear lab results showing your STD (HPV seems to be popular in western states) and maybe we Muslims will feel sorry for you too.

And then your "apology" took the form of faking regret for insulting all American women, instead of just insulting your nemesis (not me).

FWIW, I've been watching this thread, and I agree with the PP who says that you failed to prove that satisfying a demand to promise you will behave yourself is a form of "voting." It's more like when the INS used to turn away people with tuberculosis, because no host country wants to allow people to enter who will contaminate the home population, either physically (tuberculosis) or morally (the Muslim woman's pledge of good behavior).

Your error above is in the fourth line, where you claim your nemesis says "okay" to your claim that this makes women "politically relevant." No, she never said that. Nobody else ever said that, either. You're making that up.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

We don't believe a god or son of god was created, we believe a Human Being was created, Big Difference! just like Adam the first human being was created, it's not rocket science..... Off now ~~~

But you believe women can conceive without male contribution...hmm....all these girls in Nigeria should have just claimed immaculate conception instead of getting stoned for being pregnant and unwed.

How did you think Adam was "conceived"? Just fell off the sky

I don't believe that either. I think if you agree to believe the unbelievable, hell, god should have made a man give birth without a woman's help. The whole omnipotence thing, ya know.

Well, what you think is the world you created in your mind, it is not factual....But on another note, what do you believe? How did we come to be? I am curious.....

Like angels coming down to talk to people and virgins giving birth is factual?

You aren't curious what I believe. You are curious in an opportunity to prove me wrong.

What?? You are you scared to share your beliefs? I have no desire/time to "prove you wrong" as I am pretty confident and happy in what I believe. Really, I was just genuinely curious about what you believe, but I certainly won't lose sleep over it~

Ahhhhhhh, looks like we cracked this case, Muslima. She IS indeed afraid to be proved wrong. This explains why she refuses to discuss what she believes and why she refuses to learn Quranic Arabic. Also explains why she won't speak with a scholar.

Muslima wrote:Just stopping by to give you a short Salam my dear,

The Prophet saw said that deeds of people would be presented to Allah every week on two days, Monday and Thursday, and every believing servant would be granted pardon except the one in whose (heart) there is rancour against his brother and it would be said: Leave them and put them off until they are turned to reconciliation ( Muslim)! Today is Thursday, may our good deeds be presented to the Most Merciful, ma salaama ~

So true. Thank you for your gentle reminder. I think its time for me to refer this thread & others over to a few anti defamation and Islamic relations groups and bow out, especially now that I see this posters unwillingness to learn Quranic Arabic or talk to any scholar. I have been replying but trying to keep my cool. But I did read in the Quran the other day that Allah wants us to leave such people to Him to deal with. I shall do both.

Please say a dua for me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Looks to me like you are afraid to meet with a muslim.

I grew up among them, married one, gave birth to one and am carrying another, you ninny. There's nothing remotely scary about most of them.

Any muslim man that married a woman with such rank hatred of his religion is probably going to be asked by Allah WHY he married you and allowed you to be responsible for raising muslim children. I want front seats for that questioning. One has to ask if he is a true Muslim.

That question is moot. In Islam, the child of a Muslim man is Muslim.

It's not like he has a real choice about it, especially in certain Muslim countries, where, if he found that Muslim beliefs didn't really fit him and he'd really be another religion or none at all, he'd be guilt of apostasy and subject to capital punishment. So yes he is Muslim but he may not buy into very little of it.

Thus he may feel very little compunction about marrying an intelligent woman who has the wit to question a certain tenets of his titular Islam and laughs with him about Muslim women who call into religion radio shows to ask if she can undress in a room where she thinks a male jinn may be present.

I am not the PP who is married to the Muslim and mother of two Muslims (one in utero).

And news flash-- if a man does not accept major tenets of Islam, he's not Muslim.

These are the major tenants, The Five Pillars
Shahadah: declaring there is no god except God, and Muhammad is God's Messenger
Salat: ritual prayer five times a day
Zakat: giving 2.5% of one’s savings to the poor and needy
Sawm: fasting and self-control during the holy month of Ramadan
Hajj: pilgrimage to Mecca at least once in a lifetime if one is able

After that, I would think, beliefs vary depending on which sect you follow. Just as Christianity has many different sects.

Still looking for the relevance of this post.....?

Anonymous wrote:It's simple. If one poster says patently misleading or superficial things, then other posters are going to complete or correct these statements. If I post on DCUM that the US has been a force for peace in Iraq for the last 20 years, wouldn't you, quite reasonably, want to challenge me?

Same thing when you state flatly that women are equal to men in Islam. Many of us know enough to understand that the rules about divorce and inheritance are actually quite unequal.

It's not "hate speech" to point out these unequal rules.

It's strange, in fact, that you think that describing Islam's undisputed rules about women's unequal inheritance and divorce rights is "hate speech." Now maybe you don't want these unequal rules to be pointed out at all. But why? If you're not trying to convert, then why can you object when you start something and leave a lot of blanks that others fill in? Or is the problem that we don't see truth in these rules?

PS. Anybody looking for a laugh can check pages 24-25 of this thread, where PP said we Western women are all gap-toothed rednecks with STDs.

Oh puhhhhhleassseeee. And for anybody who really wants a laugh, a summary of this thread and the genuine "challenges" Muslim posters faced:

Muslim: Children are taught the Quran in 7th century Arabic and taught the meaning of some suras.
IslamHater: okay, but do they know the translation for every single word in the Quran?
Muslim: how can they when they are children and the Quran is hundreds of pages long? Learning it is a life long endeavor.
IslamHater: AHA! See! They don't know what they are reciting!

Muslim: the majority of Muslims learn the Quran in its original language. Devout ones learn Quranic Arabic.
IslamHater: 95% of Muslims don't know what they are reciting.
Muslim: if most all children are taught the meaning of the suras they learn in schools, and its been this way for hundreds of years, how can 95% not have any idea of what they recite?
IslamHater: proof: Afghanistan has a 23% literacy rate
Muslim: but why use Afghanistan as representative of the world when it has one one of the lowest literacy rates?

IslamHater: Arab superiority is a big problem in Islam!
Muslim: not really. Muslims care only about being able to practice Islam and Arabs don't hinder nonmuslims from practicing.
IslamHater: oh yes it IS a big problem! They dictate dress code to all other Muslims.
Muslim: not really. African women dress like Muslim African women, Bosnian Muslims dress like Bosnian Muslims, Lebanese Muslim women dress like Lebanese women. Different head covering styles. Arabs dictate only how Arabs should dress.


Muslim: islam established voting rights for women 1400 yrs ago
IslamHater: no, it didn't. Prove it.
Muslim: sura Ash Shurra used plural language when it asked people to settle all matters requiring collective opinion by hearing people's choices. God was talking to both men and women.
IslamHater: <silence>
IslamHater: <silence>
IslamHater: But look at how far behind Muslim countries lagged in granting women voting rights.
Muslim: Thats because after the Prophet died, the treatment and condition of women deteriorated and eventually went back to pre islamic times.
IslamHater: But that sura Muslima quoted doesn't prove Muslima voting rights! <note the subtle deflection>

Muslim: the sura Muslima quoted showed that Islam made women politically relevant
IslamHater: No, it was an admission for membership into the Prophets tribe.
Muslim: yes, and that an oath was administered for entry into his tribe makes her politically relevant because more oaths= more power
IslamHater: okay, but then its at least discriminatory because the same oath was not administered to men. <note the deflection again>
Muslim: ummm, yes it was. A group of men took the oath in the treaty under the tree, to become members of his tribe and pledge allegiance to the Prophet.
IslamHater: <silence>

IslamHater: I am such a highly intelligent woman, so well educated about Islam that these Muslim women can't handle my exceptional intelligence.
Muslim: no, not really. You can't even understand a word of the actual Quran. So your hatred comes from not being able to decipher the Quranic text and thus your misunderstanding. Go talk to a scholar.
IslamHater: never! He'll try to convert me!!!! <frightened little girl voice>

And there you have it folks. These are not challenges. They are pitiful misunderstandings based on her google ability, TV shows about Indonesian children, radio shows airing uneducated listener comments who she likes to mock, and reliance on unreliable, literal English translations of the holy Quran.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Looks to me like you are afraid to meet with a muslim.

I grew up among them, married one, gave birth to one and am carrying another, you ninny. There's nothing remotely scary about most of them.

Any muslim man that married a woman with such rank hatred of his religion is probably going to be asked by Allah WHY he married you and allowed you to be responsible for raising muslim children. I want front seats for that questioning. One has to ask if he is a true Muslim.

That question is moot. In Islam, the child of a Muslim man is Muslim.

It's not like he has a real choice about it, especially in certain Muslim countries, where, if he found that Muslim beliefs didn't really fit him and he'd really be another religion or none at all, he'd be guilt of apostasy and subject to capital punishment. So yes he is Muslim but he may not buy into very little of it.

Thus he may feel very little compunction about marrying an intelligent woman who has the wit to question a certain tenets of his titular Islam and laughs with him about Muslim women who call into religion radio shows to ask if she can undress in a room where she thinks a male jinn may be present.

I am not the PP who is married to the Muslim and mother of two Muslims (one in utero).

And news flash-- if a man does not accept major tenets of Islam, he's not Muslim.

These are the major tenants, The Five Pillars
Shahadah: declaring there is no god except God, and Muhammad is God's Messenger
Salat: ritual prayer five times a day
Zakat: giving 2.5% of one’s savings to the poor and needy
Sawm: fasting and self-control during the holy month of Ramadan
Hajj: pilgrimage to Mecca at least once in a lifetime if one is able

After that, I would think, beliefs vary depending on which sect you follow. Just as Christianity has many different sects.