Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the folly of the school system for using a single test easily mimicked by learned parents and students (in their day to day "test prep" interaction with their children) as a major determinant for AAP admission. No parent will stop reading and playing fun mental games with their children for the sake of Carol of AAP concern they may be cheating. Give me a break, lady.

This is not the sole basis of AAP. THERE IS THE NNAT, the GBRS and the other input. What has happen, practically, is because of the test prep industry, the CogAT has been down weighted compared to the GBRS and student performance. That has pissed of people whose kids that aced the tests, but then get rejected because of a low GBRS. That only happens because of the test prep industry. An average to below average kid who performs at the very advanced (130+ on the CogAT) level is either a) prepped, or b) a genius.

The county can not tell. They make there own decisions.

Frankly my personal opinion is the county should come out with a clear statement on prepping for the CogAT/FXAT and NNAT. Say the thinking in the most unambiguous way. Something like "Test Prep for the CogAT violates the spirit of the test"

I don't understand why FCPS cannot just come right out and make the statement that commercially available CogAt test prep materials are not allowed. Merely saying test prep is discouraged is being very vague, since playing critical thinking games with your child that may be similar to what is on the test may also fall in that category. FCPS (or anybody) certainly cannot stop parents from enriching their child(ren)'s educational experience, but if they specifically object to the commercially available test prep materials, they should outright say so.

Why is it so hard for them to do that?

+1

Right now the statement they do make is misleading. See FAQs on webpage below.

www.fcps.edu/is/aap/faqs/idfaqs.shtml

"How can I prepare my child to take the tests? Can I see sample questions or practice sheets?

Sample questions are practiced by students as part of the test preparation. Sample tests are not commercially available. The best test preparation is a good night's sleep and a healthy breakfast."

The statement about sample tests not being commercially available is false and FCPS knows it since they had to change the form of the CogAT due to the test prep materials being used. Many parents probably take the statement at face value whereas others are purchasing tests and prepping their children. A situation of inequity has been created. I believe that a clear and correct statement needs to be made, whether permitting or prohibiting prepping. Otherwise FCPS is introducing a discrepancy in testing conditions, and skewed results, through a known false statement.

PP, are you aware that FCPS has NO legal authority to tell me what I can and can not do to help my child prepare. This is not an honesty, moral, or ethical issue. This is about the 99% wanting what the 1%, or in FCPS 15-20%, has.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Haha, how many times is "test prep" going to be compared to general preparation for life?

"Test prep" is very different and has been defined many times here, and is what is being discussed, not whether kids should study and work hard.

How many FCPS students use the actual test to "test prep"?

You do understand. don't you, that a sample test does not need to be the "actual test" to be so close to the actual test that it's use is not quite ethical?

Then how is the SAT test prep materials ethical. Is is because the publisher of the test has released past exams and Riverside hasn't?
If you go to Riverside's website it has sample CogAt questions.

I believe that those are practice tests for school districts to purchase for use in giving the kids brief introductions to the format of the test? At our school there were I think two days of practice tests for the CogAT. I believe it would be the same at all schools? Please provide link if you are referring to something else.

Yes. And a lot of parents have to encourage kids to go to school. The thing is you are comparing cheating: studying based on the copy of the standardized test to overall school/sports prep. This type of test prep is to education that PEDs are to sports.

i also know a lot of kids who don't want to play a sport or go to sport practice but I see it from the gen parenting section that it is more acceptable for parents to suggests ways to encourage dc to keep going.

It is hard, because there may be legal reasons. When they make a public statement, it has to pass legal muster. They can say it is discuraged, sure. But saying something is not allowed, 1) how can it be inforced? and 2) can it pass a lawsuit.

The have changed the test because of children with copies of the test, otherwise known as prepping. That shouldbe strong enough.

Also, I do not think the county wants to punish kids for the actions of thier parents. I can pretty much garentee there are not a lot of 6 and 7 yo wanting to prep for the tests, rather thier parents are pushing them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the folly of the school system for using a single test easily mimicked by learned parents and students (in their day to day "test prep" interaction with their children) as a major determinant for AAP admission. No parent will stop reading and playing fun mental games with their children for the sake of Carol of AAP concern they may be cheating. Give me a break, lady.

This is not the sole basis of AAP. THERE IS THE NNAT, the GBRS and the other input. What has happen, practically, is because of the test prep industry, the CogAT has been down weighted compared to the GBRS and student performance. That has pissed of people whose kids that aced the tests, but then get rejected because of a low GBRS. That only happens because of the test prep industry. An average to below average kid who performs at the very advanced (130+ on the CogAT) level is either a) prepped, or b) a genius.

The county can not tell. They make there own decisions.

Frankly my personal opinion is the county should come out with a clear statement on prepping for the CogAT/FXAT and NNAT. Say the thinking in the most unambiguous way. Something like "Test Prep for the CogAT violates the spirit of the test"

I don't understand why FCPS cannot just come right out and make the statement that commercially available CogAt test prep materials are not allowed. Merely saying test prep is discouraged is being very vague, since playing critical thinking games with your child that may be similar to what is on the test may also fall in that category. FCPS (or anybody) certainly cannot stop parents from enriching their child(ren)'s educational experience, but if they specifically object to the commercially available test prep materials, they should outright say so.

Why is it so hard for them to do that?

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the folly of the school system for using a single test easily mimicked by learned parents and students (in their day to day "test prep" interaction with their children) as a major determinant for AAP admission. No parent will stop reading and playing fun mental games with their children for the sake of Carol of AAP concern they may be cheating. Give me a break, lady.

This is not the sole basis of AAP. THERE IS THE NNAT, the GBRS and the other input. What has happen, practically, is because of the test prep industry, the CogAT has been down weighted compared to the GBRS and student performance. That has pissed of people whose kids that aced the tests, but then get rejected because of a low GBRS. That only happens because of the test prep industry. An average to below average kid who performs at the very advanced (130+ on the CogAT) level is either a) prepped, or b) a genius.

The county can not tell. They make there own decisions.

Frankly my personal opinion is the county should come out with a clear statement on prepping for the CogAT/FXAT and NNAT. Say the thinking in the most unambiguous way. Something like "Test Prep for the CogAT violates the spirit of the test"

Again, no one here has a problem with reading and playing fun mental games with children. That is not what this thread is about.

It sounds like the folly of the school system for using a single test easily mimicked by learned parents and students (in their day to day "test prep" interaction with their children) as a major determinant for AAP admission. No parent will stop reading and playing fun mental games with their children for the sake of Carol of AAP concern they may be cheating. Give me a break, lady.

Even though the materials are legal, it appears the school system does not see their use as appropriate for this particular round of second grade testing.

No one has suggested that tests were stolen. The question is whether FCPS believes students should engage in "prepping" using certain types of materials.
The test was changed this year because of the type of "prep" materials people were using.

Very few in FCPS have stolen GoCAT tests and answer keys and used them for their children. Therefore, you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Chill.

People don't need a church, synagogue, or mosque to teach them about honesty. Atheists, agnostics, and believers in a higher power can all understand the concepts of honesty and personal integrity.

Those who live honorable lives don't need to hire crafty or unethical lawyers.
__________________________________________________
What does dishonesty have to do with hard work and students preparing for tests and exams? Are pre-college students test prepping for the SAT for years all dishonest?

Anonymous wrote:

The fact that something is legal does not makes it's use ethically correct.

Is this about what church, synagogue or mosque one attends?

Which side has the better (crafty or unethical) lawyers?

People don't need a church, synagogue, or mosque to teach them about honesty. Atheists, agnostics, and believers in a higher power can all understand the concepts of honesty and personal integrity.

Those who live honorable lives don't need to hire crafty or unethical lawyers.