Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The level of ignorance in the last few pages of this thread is utterly staggering. People taking shots at a DA club with no clue at all.

Please tell us what other standard we should be judging the success of the WSVA program by? Results? I agree that results, alone, are not enough but watching the teams play surely tells a lot. And parking the bus to keep results closer is not really development at these ages. Development? Ok...tell why we should believe that SO MUCH DEVELOPMENT is happening at WSVA. Because posters on here are telling us so? How should we be able to discern that the development at WSVA is steeper than at other DA or ECNL clubs? Furthermore, you can only "develop" up to the potential of the talent. If the talent has low ceilings, the coaching/development can only do so much. Pipeline? There is no real pipeline. Who hear REALLY believes that GFR is really the hotbed of youth soccer as deserving of a partner for USDA club? A USDA club? Come on. How about cost? Too high. How about roster sizes? Way too large for development. No one can really believe that 28 players at training is better than 18. That is asinine. Is a 28 person classroom better than 18? Because that is what developmental training is...a classroom. Finally, coaching. Where is the deep roster of great coaches? Seriously. There are one or two that would be considered good or great. The rest? Come on.

So tell us Spirit PR chairman, where is the ignorance? What are we missing?

There is not a DA roster at WSVA with 28 kids on it. You keep saying this but it is not true.

Spirit parents are saying they train with 28. Is this not accurate?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The level of ignorance in the last few pages of this thread is utterly staggering. People taking shots at a DA club with no clue at all.

Please tell us what other standard we should be judging the success of the WSVA program by? Results? I agree that results, alone, are not enough but watching the teams play surely tells a lot. And parking the bus to keep results closer is not really development at these ages. Development? Ok...tell why we should believe that SO MUCH DEVELOPMENT is happening at WSVA. Because posters on here are telling us so? How should we be able to discern that the development at WSVA is steeper than at other DA or ECNL clubs? Furthermore, you can only "develop" up to the potential of the talent. If the talent has low ceilings, the coaching/development can only do so much. Pipeline? There is no real pipeline. Who hear REALLY believes that GFR is really the hotbed of youth soccer as deserving of a partner for USDA club? A USDA club? Come on. How about cost? Too high. How about roster sizes? Way too large for development. No one can really believe that 28 players at training is better than 18. That is asinine. Is a 28 person classroom better than 18? Because that is what developmental training is...a classroom. Finally, coaching. Where is the deep roster of great coaches? Seriously. There are one or two that would be considered good or great. The rest? Come on.

So tell us Spirit PR chairman, where is the ignorance? What are we missing?

There is not a DA roster at WSVA with 28 kids on it. You keep saying this but it is not true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The level of ignorance in the last few pages of this thread is utterly staggering. People taking shots at a DA club with no clue at all.

Please tell us what other standard we should be judging the success of the WSVA program by? Results? I agree that results, alone, are not enough but watching the teams play surely tells a lot. And parking the bus to keep results closer is not really development at these ages. Development? Ok...tell why we should believe that SO MUCH DEVELOPMENT is happening at WSVA. Because posters on here are telling us so? How should we be able to discern that the development at WSVA is steeper than at other DA or ECNL clubs? Furthermore, you can only "develop" up to the potential of the talent. If the talent has low ceilings, the coaching/development can only do so much. Pipeline? There is no real pipeline. Who hear REALLY believes that GFR is really the hotbed of youth soccer as deserving of a partner for USDA club? A USDA club? Come on. How about cost? Too high. How about roster sizes? Way too large for development. No one can really believe that 28 players at training is better than 18. That is asinine. Is a 28 person classroom better than 18? Because that is what developmental training is...a classroom. Finally, coaching. Where is the deep roster of great coaches? Seriously. There are one or two that would be considered good or great. The rest? Come on.

So tell us Spirit PR chairman, where is the ignorance? What are we missing?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The level of ignorance in the last few pages of this thread is utterly staggering. People taking shots at a DA club with no clue at all.

Please tell us what other standard we should be judging the success of the WSVA program by? Results? I agree that results, alone, are not enough but watching the teams play surely tells a lot. And parking the bus to keep results closer is not really development at these ages. Development? Ok...tell why we should believe that SO MUCH DEVELOPMENT is happening at WSVA. Because posters on here are telling us so? How should we be able to discern that the development at WSVA is steeper than at other DA or ECNL clubs? Furthermore, you can only "develop" up to the potential of the talent. If the talent has low ceilings, the coaching/development can only do so much. Pipeline? There is no real pipeline. Who hear REALLY believes that GFR is really the hotbed of youth soccer as deserving of a partner for USDA club? A USDA club? Come on. How about cost? Too high. How about roster sizes? Way too large for development. No one can really believe that 28 players at training is better than 18. That is asinine. Is a 28 person classroom better than 18? Because that is what developmental training is...a classroom. Finally, coaching. Where is the deep roster of great coaches? Seriously. There are one or two that would be considered good or great. The rest? Come on.

So tell us Spirit PR chairman, where is the ignorance? What are we missing?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The level of ignorance in the last few pages of this thread is utterly staggering. People taking shots at a DA club with no clue at all.

Please tell us what other standard we should be judging the success of the WSVA program by? Results? I agree that results, alone, are not enough but watching the teams play surely tells a lot. And parking the bus to keep results closer is not really development at these ages. Development? Ok...tell why we should believe that SO MUCH DEVELOPMENT is happening at WSVA. Because posters on here are telling us so? How should we be able to discern that the development at WSVA is steeper than at other DA or ECNL clubs? Furthermore, you can only "develop" up to the potential of the talent. If the talent has low ceilings, the coaching/development can only do so much. Pipeline? There is no real pipeline. Who hear REALLY believes that GFR is really the hotbed of youth soccer as deserving of a partner for USDA club? A USDA club? Come on. How about cost? Too high. How about roster sizes? Way too large for development. No one can really believe that 28 players at training is better than 18. That is asinine. Is a 28 person classroom better than 18? Because that is what developmental training is...a classroom. Finally, coaching. Where is the deep roster of great coaches? Seriously. There are one or two that would be considered good or great. The rest? Come on.

So tell us Spirit PR chairman, where is the ignorance? What are we missing?

Anonymous wrote:The level of ignorance in the last few pages of this thread is utterly staggering. People taking shots at a DA club with no clue at all.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Different posters so different comments. Some say they lack talent; others say their talent is being lost in the shuffle of bloated rosters that include players who shouldn't be in the DA or who shouldn't be playing up.

The talent level is below every ECNL and DA team the area for all but the 00-02 age groups.

The rosters ARE bloated but not with a lot of talent. Revenue generation is a major initiative

The rosters include plenty of kids playing up that shouldn’t be. Some of this is lack of talent but more of it is too much parental influence being accepted by the club.

All of this needs to stop for the club to improve.

This is the ugly truth.

I think this point is understood. The problem at Spirit has mostly been a lack of a true mechanism to have the "B" team kids practice and play as other clubs have. They certainly need to streamline their tiers in a more common practice. But other clubs in principle do the same thing they just have a better structure to make it work better.

If GFR isn't the place for their "B" team kids, why have it? I kept hearing this partnership touted as a solution to the pipeline problem.

Because that partnership is still developing. It is way behind the integration that developed with Pipeline. Pipeline is the DA and that is not the case with GF.

Not Pipeline the club; pipeline as in a feeder. Spirit should offer players not good enough for the DA a spot on GFR and opportunities to guest as needed to cover for injuries, develop or whatever. Instead, they are stuffing all those players into the DA program and dragging down the level to the lowest common denominator.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different posters so different comments. Some say they lack talent; others say their talent is being lost in the shuffle of bloated rosters that include players who shouldn't be in the DA or who shouldn't be playing up.

The talent level is below every ECNL and DA team the area for all but the 00-02 age groups.

The rosters ARE bloated but not with a lot of talent. Revenue generation is a major initiative

The rosters include plenty of kids playing up that shouldn’t be. Some of this is lack of talent but more of it is too much parental influence being accepted by the club.

All of this needs to stop for the club to improve.

This is the ugly truth.

I think this point is understood. The problem at Spirit has mostly been a lack of a true mechanism to have the "B" team kids practice and play as other clubs have. They certainly need to streamline their tiers in a more common practice. But other clubs in principle do the same thing they just have a better structure to make it work better.

If GFR isn't the place for their "B" team kids, why have it? I kept hearing this partnership touted as a solution to the pipeline problem.

Because that partnership is still developing. It is way behind the integration that developed with Pipeline. Pipeline is the DA and that is not the case with GF.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different posters so different comments. Some say they lack talent; others say their talent is being lost in the shuffle of bloated rosters that include players who shouldn't be in the DA or who shouldn't be playing up.

The talent level is below every ECNL and DA team the area for all but the 00-02 age groups.

The rosters ARE bloated but not with a lot of talent. Revenue generation is a major initiative

The rosters include plenty of kids playing up that shouldn’t be. Some of this is lack of talent but more of it is too much parental influence being accepted by the club.

All of this needs to stop for the club to improve.

This is the ugly truth.

I think this point is understood. The problem at Spirit has mostly been a lack of a true mechanism to have the "B" team kids practice and play as other clubs have. They certainly need to streamline their tiers in a more common practice. But other clubs in principle do the same thing they just have a better structure to make it work better.

If GFR isn't the place for their "B" team kids, why have it? I kept hearing this partnership touted as a solution to the pipeline problem.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different posters so different comments. Some say they lack talent; others say their talent is being lost in the shuffle of bloated rosters that include players who shouldn't be in the DA or who shouldn't be playing up.

The talent level is below every ECNL and DA team the area for all but the 00-02 age groups.

The rosters ARE bloated but not with a lot of talent. Revenue generation is a major initiative

The rosters include plenty of kids playing up that shouldn’t be. Some of this is lack of talent but more of it is too much parental influence being accepted by the club.

All of this needs to stop for the club to improve.

This is the ugly truth.

I think this point is understood. The problem at Spirit has mostly been a lack of a true mechanism to have the "B" team kids practice and play as other clubs have. They certainly need to streamline their tiers in a more common practice. But other clubs in principle do the same thing they just have a better structure to make it work better.

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Anonymous wrote:Playing games is important to developing players, but that wasn't the poster's argument. It was that kids can develop even if on a large roster. Part of "development" is learning to compete, which includes competing for playing time. Just because you're on the team doesn't mean you're on the field. You have to EARN it. Maybe that means you practice extra. Maybe you spend 2 hours on weekends by yourself juggling or practicing shooting. Maybe you dig deeper and hustle more. Or get fit. Or watch more professional matches. But if you expect to play because you are on the team, you belong in rec soccer, not the DA.

And if you're not earning playing minutes, that doesn't mean you're not a valuable part of the team. Or that you DESERVE to play. Or that you're not "developing." The statement "If clubs are not giving player's the chance to get significant minutes in games on a regular basis, then they simply don't care that much about that player's development. Those players are only there to provide depth, practice fodder, and $$" is utter nonsense. The "chance to get significant minutes" is based on merit, and I assure you, every DA coach gives every player "the chance" to EARN time. If you're performing, you play.

That’s the problem with WS-VA, playing time is NOT based on merit. Everyone plays relatively equal minutes. You don’t have to go to practice, you can goof off while at practice and will still get to start. The kids who should be starting have to sit in order to allow players 19-28 on the roster to get playing time

I think this is pulled out of thin air. You are telling me that you have done a minute by minute breakdown of all the players and have come to the conclusion that all the players play the same number of minutes? I think you need to back such a statement up.

I'm not sure if it's the case across all age groups, but it has been not just observed but told to younger age groups., by coaching staff as there is currently re-entry that this is the case.

Our eyes lie to us but the numbers generally don't. Ego often plays a role in things. If little Susie gets subbed out at minute 60 I've witnessed parents believe the loss of 20 minutes of playing time claimed to be the coach is playing everyone the same. I'm sure if you asked the kid who only got 20 or 15 minutes did not feel as though the minutes were equal.

So, since there are numbers out there to back this up, please use those to support your argument. Not that I don't trust your lying eyes of course. Now, for your statement to be true all subs are made at halftime right? Because that is what equal means.

Or it could mean that starting means you get a full half + 20 more minutes and then starts are fairly evenly spread across the board. So playing time may not be equal in a game, but it is over the course of a season.

All easily provable. So go ahead and prove that all the players get equal time. I'll wait.

DP but the poster who made the equal time claim also clearly stated as far as they knew it applied to age groups in which re-entry is allowed.

Game reports for those ages do not include information as to starters, reserves, or game minutes.

So it's going to be a long wait for you. Maybe think about not being such a jerk while you wait.

+1.

Quite frankly, on a related note, none of this would be an issue of Spirit would normalize it's roster size.

So many exaggerations. No team has a roster of 28. Easy enough to look up.

All players getting equal playing time is also very easy to provide evidence. There is nothing wrong with the criticisms if they are based in fact and not emotional, anecdotal hyperbole.

I agree. It's not 28. It's more like 23 or 24, as per the website - because you have the 04s that are listed + the play ups. I'm not cutting and pasting as it's right there on the website for everyone to see.

That's still massive and unacceptable. 16-18 is a developmental roster. Anything above that is a money making, check receiving roster. That becomes even more obvious when it becomes clear that some of those players are not DA or ECNL level.

And all other clubs utilize DP players as well. No smart coach is going to roll into a year long soccer season with 16 kids. It might meet your development ideal and wet dream but you are one concussion and a torn ACL away from putting yourself in a real tough spot. Every club and team has some mechanism for roster depth. Spirit, with no real feeder club simply does not have the ability to just tap the A team. Spirit MD can pull from Pipeline and those are names that you just do not see on the roster. Arlington can also pull kids up from their B team as well. FCV has several DP players train almost exclusively with the DA team. The idea that clubs do not have 5-6 players they can call up in case of injury is being naive and emotional.

And if the poster would dig into the actual game reports they just might that there is in fact a core group of regular players. They might find that their assumption was right too but until that actual effort is done it is all just anecdotal complaining.

Anonymous wrote:Problem at Spirit is the Coaching.