Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them. Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse.

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: hookup culture is bad! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.

I think it's been posted 70x because some loon kept posting some crap about helping rapists rape.

You mean the person who was pointing out those posters who insist on identifying all the reasons why Emily Doe brought this on herself and what she should've done differently, as opposed to looking at why the guy felt so entitled and how we change that mentality to stop these crimes?

That's a good point. Look back at this thread, and compare the number of posts talking about what the victim did wrong and how the victim (and other women) can "avoid rape" in the future to the number of posts trying to figure out what got the rapist to this place and how he can avoid THAT in the future?

Well I'm not a rapist and I don't know what motivates them so I'm a little lost there. Suggestions?

I do feel personally responsible for myself and my daughters though so for my little family I'll focus on personal safety and looking out for others. That's just an easier/more relevant conversation for me.

Suggestions? Sure. How about, you have no right to touch another person without their consent. Yes means yes. Know right versus wrong, etc., etc., etc. It doesn't start or stop with personal safety. We need to teach people to respect other people. If some dude is horny, he needs to keep it in his pants unless the other consenting party has said YES...and even simpler, is conscious.

Brock's Dad must have had your mentality, which is why he failed to teach his son that rape isn't right.

And how about, women are not puzzles to solve so you can score. Women are human beings, and sex is not the end goal of an obstacle course.

So who are these boys I can teach and how do I do this given that I'm not their parent/teacher?

You're being facetious here, but regardless: teach your girls to expect and demand that they will be treated as human beings. Teach them to speak up when they see women and girls being belittled.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them. Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse.

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: hookup culture is bad! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.

How is that irrelevant? If the hook up culture has guys having sex with a bunch of wasted girls that black out and can't remember a thing and tell him what a great time they had and they come back for more... how is that not relevant to the problem on college campuses. How is a guy to know when a girl is going to say, they didn't consent, when the same situation happened 20 times before and it was consent?

I'm pretty an unconscious woman is not able to consent to being fucked behind a dumpster.

She is able to consent she was just unable to take it back once she passed out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guaranteed that once he leaves jail, sooner or later someone is going to beat the crap out of him. GOOD!!! Forget about violence doesn't solve anything or don't you lower yourself to their level. He needs to be taught a lesson big time.

What about the drunk antelope? When is she going to learn a lesson? Woke up in the hospital, felt embarrassed and decided to ruin his future. His name is smeared all over the media and she is remaining anonymous.

His name is smeared all over the media because he committed, was arrested for, and found guilty of several felonies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them. Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse.

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: hookup culture is bad! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.

How is that irrelevant? If the hook up culture has guys having sex with a bunch of wasted girls that black out and can't remember a thing and tell him what a great time they had and they come back for more... how is that not relevant to the problem on college campuses. How is a guy to know when a girl is going to say, they didn't consent, when the same situation happened 20 times before and it was consent?

I'm pretty an unconscious woman is not able to consent to being fucked behind a dumpster.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guaranteed that once he leaves jail, sooner or later someone is going to beat the crap out of him. GOOD!!! Forget about violence doesn't solve anything or don't you lower yourself to their level. He needs to be taught a lesson big time.

What about the drunk antelope? When is she going to learn a lesson? Woke up in the hospital, felt embarrassed and decided to ruin his future. His name is smeared all over the media and she is remaining anonymous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them. Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse.

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: hookup culture is bad! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.

How is that irrelevant? If the hook up culture has guys having sex with a bunch of wasted girls that black out and can't remember a thing and tell him what a great time they had and they come back for more... how is that not relevant to the problem on college campuses. How is a guy to know when a girl is going to say, they didn't consent, when the same situation happened 20 times before and it was consent?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guaranteed that once he leaves jail, sooner or later someone is going to beat the crap out of him. GOOD!!! Forget about violence doesn't solve anything or don't you lower yourself to their level. He needs to be taught a lesson big time.

What about the drunk antelope? When is she going to learn a lesson? Woke up in the hospital, felt embarrassed and decided to ruin his future. His name is smeared all over the media and she is remaining anonymous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guaranteed that once he leaves jail, sooner or later someone is going to beat the crap out of him. GOOD!!! Forget about violence doesn't solve anything or don't you lower yourself to their level. He needs to be taught a lesson big time.

What about the drunk antelope? When is she going to learn a lesson? Woke up in the hospital, felt embarrassed and decided to ruin his future. His name is smeared all over the media and she is remaining anonymous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guaranteed that once he leaves jail, sooner or later someone is going to beat the crap out of him. GOOD!!! Forget about violence doesn't solve anything or don't you lower yourself to their level. He needs to be taught a lesson big time.

What about the drunk antelope? When is she going to learn a lesson? Woke up in the hospital, felt embarrassed and decided to ruin his future. His name is smeared all over the media and she is remaining anonymous.

Anonymous wrote:Guaranteed that once he leaves jail, sooner or later someone is going to beat the crap out of him. GOOD!!! Forget about violence doesn't solve anything or don't you lower yourself to their level. He needs to be taught a lesson big time.

Anonymous wrote:Guaranteed that once he leaves jail, sooner or later someone is going to beat the crap out of him. GOOD!!! Forget about violence doesn't solve anything or don't you lower yourself to their level. He needs to be taught a lesson big time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them. Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse.

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: hookup culture is bad! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.

How is that irrelevant? If the hook up culture has guys having sex with a bunch of wasted girls that black out and can't remember a thing and tell him what a great time they had and they come back for more... how is that not relevant to the problem on college campuses. How is a guy to know when a girl is going to say, they didn't consent, when the same situation happened 20 times before and it was consent?

Perhaps we need to teach our sons to do a better job of recognizing and understanding what could happen. If a girl is THAT drunk, or if she says yes but then no and then yes again, or if she is on the verge of passing out, or she can't walk, or is slurring her speech so badly that you can't understand her - WALK AWAY. Exercise restraint, recognize that this is not how you want to be getting laid, understand the consequences. Just as we would tell our daughters not to get so drunk that they black out, or not to walk home alone, and exercise personal safety, we should also be teaching our sons not to take advantage of drunk girls or get so drunk that they don't recognize that the girl they are about to have sex with is also too drunk to know what's going on. You don't solve the "hookup culture" on college campuses by simply telling girls not to do certain things while excusing the behavior of the guys.

what if they guy is in the same condition as the girl?

I think we tell girls and boys... no drinking before you are 21, after 21 no drinking to the point you are drunk, no sleeping with people you are not dating.

Why do I get push back from that notion?

That's the point. Guys need to understand what can happen if they get wasted and try to hook up with a girl and why they, the guys, shouldn't put themselves in that kind of situation either. Telling college kids no drinking til 21, etc. is all fine and good, but many college kids will do all of those things regardless of what their parents said. The entirety of the lesson cannot be "don't get drunk" or "don't sleep with anyone unless you're dating."