Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to like Greg as comic relief, but they're writing him so cringey this season that I can barely watch him.

Agreed. Greg is no longer Greg.

Anonymous wrote:I used to like Greg as comic relief, but they're writing him so cringey this season that I can barely watch him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems obvious that Matsson offered the $$ to f*ck with Kendall and Roman. That’s why he asked Shiv to send him the photo of them. But does that mean Shiv understands that Kendall and Roman are trying to tank the deal? I wasn’t sure what to make of her take on the situation, besides trying to maximize it for herself.

My read on Shiv right now is that she is just looking for opportunities to stay relevant and leverage power. She feels shut out with Kendall and Roman as interim CEOs (and IS shut out, that's clear). During this episode, we saw her variously cozying up to the old folks (acting chummy with Frank when the email from Matsson came in, recommending Gerri to Matsson to help with his Ebba issues), getting closer to Matsson, and even maybe protecting/allying with Tom somewhat. We did not see her interacting with or allying with her brothers much, nor did we see her utter a single negative thing about either of them either. She's not scheming against them directly, she's shoring up her support elsewhere and looking for opportunities.

Contrast this with Kendall, who is throwing his weight around at the Waystar offices, getting very aggressive with Matsson, trying to freeze out the old guard, scheming even behind Roman's back (with Hugo, who is now on Matsson's kill list, which is relevant here), trying to torpedo this deal and using Greg and Jess as pawns to do so.

Shiv is quietly making friends, Kendall is loudly making enemies. Roman is acting emotionally, going along with Kendall's schemes, its he go-between with Connor regarding the funeral -- in a very in-between place.

If you did a power ranking of Roy siblings by week, last week it would have gone 1-Kendall, 2-Roman, 3-Shiv, 4-Connor. This week, it's 1-Kendall, 2-Shiv, 3-Roman, 4-Connor. Shiv's on the rise, Roman's on the decline, Kendall's lead is on thin ice and he might not realize how thin.

I agree re Matsson. There is no reason for him to share that info with her other than to manipulate her. He has been fixated on her for a bit too.

I would already put Shiv about Kendall after her convo with Matsson, and her brothers meeting with him on the mountain top.

+1
Definitely, Shiv is #1 right now. Matsson trusts her.

I feel like Matsson is using Shiv. He may even have made up the story about the 1/2 liters of blood just to make her think she had power. I have a hard time Matsson would confide such a weird story in anybody that easily.

He got information out of Shiv--that he'd seal the deal if he bumped his offer, and who at Waystar could help him spin whatever pr problems his own company is apparently having. But if all he gave Shiv is a fake weird story, then at the end of the day she has nothing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shiv is going to abort.

Even this show would not have a main character get a second trimester abortion. Not happening. A miscarriage could happen but not that. Also, people speculating that the father is someone other than Tom - also not happening. They’re not introducing a heretofore unknown additional love interest with so few episodes left.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems obvious that Matsson offered the $$ to f*ck with Kendall and Roman. That’s why he asked Shiv to send him the photo of them. But does that mean Shiv understands that Kendall and Roman are trying to tank the deal? I wasn’t sure what to make of her take on the situation, besides trying to maximize it for herself.

My read on Shiv right now is that she is just looking for opportunities to stay relevant and leverage power. She feels shut out with Kendall and Roman as interim CEOs (and IS shut out, that's clear). During this episode, we saw her variously cozying up to the old folks (acting chummy with Frank when the email from Matsson came in, recommending Gerri to Matsson to help with his Ebba issues), getting closer to Matsson, and even maybe protecting/allying with Tom somewhat. We did not see her interacting with or allying with her brothers much, nor did we see her utter a single negative thing about either of them either. She's not scheming against them directly, she's shoring up her support elsewhere and looking for opportunities.

Contrast this with Kendall, who is throwing his weight around at the Waystar offices, getting very aggressive with Matsson, trying to freeze out the old guard, scheming even behind Roman's back (with Hugo, who is now on Matsson's kill list, which is relevant here), trying to torpedo this deal and using Greg and Jess as pawns to do so.

Shiv is quietly making friends, Kendall is loudly making enemies. Roman is acting emotionally, going along with Kendall's schemes, its he go-between with Connor regarding the funeral -- in a very in-between place.

If you did a power ranking of Roy siblings by week, last week it would have gone 1-Kendall, 2-Roman, 3-Shiv, 4-Connor. This week, it's 1-Kendall, 2-Shiv, 3-Roman, 4-Connor. Shiv's on the rise, Roman's on the decline, Kendall's lead is on thin ice and he might not realize how thin.

I would already put Shiv about Kendall after her convo with Matsson, and her brothers meeting with him on the mountain top.

+1
Definitely, Shiv is #1 right now. Matsson trusts her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have a read on Shiv's drinking during the episode? It felt emphasized in the scene with Matsson and also on the plane home when everyone was having champagne. Like they made a point of showing her taking drinks and tossing her head back. Curious if people thought was really drinking or making it look like she was, and if she was drinking, if that has any bearing on her feelings about her pregnancy. I'm not sure what to make of it.

I thought it was interesting in the scene with Matsson when offers her the cocaine and she acts interested but then the conversation shifts and she never has any. It made me think if she was just skillfully making it look like she was partaking in alcohol/drugs by holding alcohol, saying yes to things offered, even appearing to take sips of things, but actually managing to avoid it somehow. I think that would be pretty hard in that environment but Shiv was doing a good job generally of playing it cool when her brothers, Tom, and the grays were not doing such a good job. Maybe she's just better at this stuff because of the time she spent in politics and outside of Waystar. She's less of a bubble baby than most of them are.

I don't have a read and I don't want to go down a total rabbit hole, but it was noticeable. And one reason I say that is because on the boat for Kendall's wedding Shiv refuses champagne and asks for water, which seemed odd. And that was before we knew she was pregnant. I predicted a pregnancy for her in this last season so I admit my radar might be up more than normal.

I almost wonder if Shiv is still pregnant? She's really the least maternal person, like ever. I refuse to believe she just oops! got pregnant, but maybe it was before Tom betrayed her.

DP. When did Tom get Shiv pregnant? It's not at all clear to me when they were "together" last - but it seems like they've been separated/estranged for quite awhile.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have a read on Shiv's drinking during the episode? It felt emphasized in the scene with Matsson and also on the plane home when everyone was having champagne. Like they made a point of showing her taking drinks and tossing her head back. Curious if people thought was really drinking or making it look like she was, and if she was drinking, if that has any bearing on her feelings about her pregnancy. I'm not sure what to make of it.

I thought it was interesting in the scene with Matsson when offers her the cocaine and she acts interested but then the conversation shifts and she never has any. It made me think if she was just skillfully making it look like she was partaking in alcohol/drugs by holding alcohol, saying yes to things offered, even appearing to take sips of things, but actually managing to avoid it somehow. I think that would be pretty hard in that environment but Shiv was doing a good job generally of playing it cool when her brothers, Tom, and the grays were not doing such a good job. Maybe she's just better at this stuff because of the time she spent in politics and outside of Waystar. She's less of a bubble baby than most of them are.

I don't have a read and I don't want to go down a total rabbit hole, but it was noticeable. And one reason I say that is because on the boat for Kendall's wedding Shiv refuses champagne and asks for water, which seemed odd. And that was before we knew she was pregnant. I predicted a pregnancy for her in this last season so I admit my radar might be up more than normal.

I almost wonder if Shiv is still pregnant? She's really the least maternal person, like ever. I refuse to believe she just oops! got pregnant, but maybe it was before Tom betrayed her.

DP. When did Tom get Shiv pregnant? It's not at all clear to me when they were "together" last - but it seems like they've been separated/estranged for quite awhile.

Speculation is around the time of her mother's wedding, before she knew Tom had betrayed her. There's a lot of talk of Tom and Shiv having a baby in that episode but it was overshadowed by the ending.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I gotta say this season is really falling flat for me. The only good scene last night was Shiv and Mattson. The writing for Tom and Greg, who are usually my favorite characters, is so bad this season. I’m bored. I enjoyed the scenery. I laughed when they first showed the gondola. Other than that I’m not into it.

Ugh I agree. Logan’s death episode was so good and gripping and last night was a bit boring.

DP. I thought last night's episode was riveting! Interesting how we can all have such different takeaways.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shiv is going to abort.

Even this show would not have a main character get a second trimester abortion. Not happening. A miscarriage could happen but not that. Also, people speculating that the father is someone other than Tom - also not happening. They’re not introducing a heretofore unknown additional love interest with so few episodes left.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have a read on Shiv's drinking during the episode? It felt emphasized in the scene with Matsson and also on the plane home when everyone was having champagne. Like they made a point of showing her taking drinks and tossing her head back. Curious if people thought was really drinking or making it look like she was, and if she was drinking, if that has any bearing on her feelings about her pregnancy. I'm not sure what to make of it.

I thought it was interesting in the scene with Matsson when offers her the cocaine and she acts interested but then the conversation shifts and she never has any. It made me think if she was just skillfully making it look like she was partaking in alcohol/drugs by holding alcohol, saying yes to things offered, even appearing to take sips of things, but actually managing to avoid it somehow. I think that would be pretty hard in that environment but Shiv was doing a good job generally of playing it cool when her brothers, Tom, and the grays were not doing such a good job. Maybe she's just better at this stuff because of the time she spent in politics and outside of Waystar. She's less of a bubble baby than most of them are.

I don't have a read and I don't want to go down a total rabbit hole, but it was noticeable. And one reason I say that is because on the boat for Kendall's wedding Shiv refuses champagne and asks for water, which seemed odd. And that was before we knew she was pregnant. I predicted a pregnancy for her in this last season so I admit my radar might be up more than normal.

I almost wonder if Shiv is still pregnant? She's really the least maternal person, like ever. I refuse to believe she just oops! got pregnant, but maybe it was before Tom betrayed her.

DP. When did Tom get Shiv pregnant? It's not at all clear to me when they were "together" last - but it seems like they've been separated/estranged for quite awhile.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems obvious that Matsson offered the $$ to f*ck with Kendall and Roman. That’s why he asked Shiv to send him the photo of them. But does that mean Shiv understands that Kendall and Roman are trying to tank the deal? I wasn’t sure what to make of her take on the situation, besides trying to maximize it for herself.

My read on Shiv right now is that she is just looking for opportunities to stay relevant and leverage power. She feels shut out with Kendall and Roman as interim CEOs (and IS shut out, that's clear). During this episode, we saw her variously cozying up to the old folks (acting chummy with Frank when the email from Matsson came in, recommending Gerri to Matsson to help with his Ebba issues), getting closer to Matsson, and even maybe protecting/allying with Tom somewhat. We did not see her interacting with or allying with her brothers much, nor did we see her utter a single negative thing about either of them either. She's not scheming against them directly, she's shoring up her support elsewhere and looking for opportunities.

Contrast this with Kendall, who is throwing his weight around at the Waystar offices, getting very aggressive with Matsson, trying to freeze out the old guard, scheming even behind Roman's back (with Hugo, who is now on Matsson's kill list, which is relevant here), trying to torpedo this deal and using Greg and Jess as pawns to do so.

Shiv is quietly making friends, Kendall is loudly making enemies. Roman is acting emotionally, going along with Kendall's schemes, its he go-between with Connor regarding the funeral -- in a very in-between place.

If you did a power ranking of Roy siblings by week, last week it would have gone 1-Kendall, 2-Roman, 3-Shiv, 4-Connor. This week, it's 1-Kendall, 2-Shiv, 3-Roman, 4-Connor. Shiv's on the rise, Roman's on the decline, Kendall's lead is on thin ice and he might not realize how thin.

I would already put Shiv about Kendall after her convo with Matsson, and her brothers meeting with him on the mountain top.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have a read on Shiv's drinking during the episode? It felt emphasized in the scene with Matsson and also on the plane home when everyone was having champagne. Like they made a point of showing her taking drinks and tossing her head back. Curious if people thought was really drinking or making it look like she was, and if she was drinking, if that has any bearing on her feelings about her pregnancy. I'm not sure what to make of it.

I thought it was interesting in the scene with Matsson when offers her the cocaine and she acts interested but then the conversation shifts and she never has any. It made me think if she was just skillfully making it look like she was partaking in alcohol/drugs by holding alcohol, saying yes to things offered, even appearing to take sips of things, but actually managing to avoid it somehow. I think that would be pretty hard in that environment but Shiv was doing a good job generally of playing it cool when her brothers, Tom, and the grays were not doing such a good job. Maybe she's just better at this stuff because of the time she spent in politics and outside of Waystar. She's less of a bubble baby than most of them are.

They made a big show of her not doing the cocaine. And we see her with a drink but there’s no evidence she has more than one per day. Early in my pregnancy I always had a glass of wine at family gatherings so my mom would leave me alone.

The also show her throwing back the scotch or whiskey or whatever she is drinking with Matsson. It felt different in nature from she was sipping champagne on the plane.

I just feel like they wouldn't be zooming in on these things if it's not going to come up later. Presumable people are going to find out about the pregnancy at some point, and I'm worried that photos or anecdotes about her drinking (or even being in close proximity to or being alleged to have done cocaine) might get used to discredit her.

Worried her pregnancy is going to get used against her in a really sexist, devious, and grotesque way and that these moments might play into it. Would definitely not put it past Kendall and Roman to do that if they feel threatened by her at some point. Also wouldn't put it past Matsson. Any of these guys would jump at the chance to use her pregnancy or her perceive irresponsibility as a mom to gain the upper hand on her.

Anonymous wrote:It seems obvious that Matsson offered the $$ to f*ck with Kendall and Roman. That’s why he asked Shiv to send him the photo of them. But does that mean Shiv understands that Kendall and Roman are trying to tank the deal? I wasn’t sure what to make of her take on the situation, besides trying to maximize it for herself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have a read on Shiv's drinking during the episode? It felt emphasized in the scene with Matsson and also on the plane home when everyone was having champagne. Like they made a point of showing her taking drinks and tossing her head back. Curious if people thought was really drinking or making it look like she was, and if she was drinking, if that has any bearing on her feelings about her pregnancy. I'm not sure what to make of it.

I thought it was interesting in the scene with Matsson when offers her the cocaine and she acts interested but then the conversation shifts and she never has any. It made me think if she was just skillfully making it look like she was partaking in alcohol/drugs by holding alcohol, saying yes to things offered, even appearing to take sips of things, but actually managing to avoid it somehow. I think that would be pretty hard in that environment but Shiv was doing a good job generally of playing it cool when her brothers, Tom, and the grays were not doing such a good job. Maybe she's just better at this stuff because of the time she spent in politics and outside of Waystar. She's less of a bubble baby than most of them are.

I don't have a read and I don't want to go down a total rabbit hole, but it was noticeable. And one reason I say that is because on the boat for Kendall's wedding Shiv refuses champagne and asks for water, which seemed odd. And that was before we knew she was pregnant. I predicted a pregnancy for her in this last season so I admit my radar might be up more than normal.

I almost wonder if Shiv is still pregnant? She's really the least maternal person, like ever. I refuse to believe she just oops! got pregnant, but maybe it was before Tom betrayed her.