Anonymous wrote:If you feel like criticizing Simone Biles, please refer to this decision tree from McSweeney's:

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/are-you-allowed-to-criticize-simone-biles-a-decision-tree

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Anonymous wrote:Haven’t read this whole thread so I think this is a somewhat different take - but I have ZERO problem with what Simone Biles did. I DO have a problem with the way it’s being covered, however. Pulling out of a dangerous competition at the last minute, potentially leaving teammates who are counting on you in the lurch is surely a very difficult, but very rational and understandable decision. It is certainly not villainous or selfish; neither is it brave or courageous. It is just an unfortunate and crappy situation that all the gymnasts handled to the best of their ability.

WHY do we have to resort to this childish, binary, black-or-white, good-or-bad, cowardly-or-brave narrative for EVERYTHING these days? It’s ridiculous.

She’s not selfish, she’s not bad, but she’s also no hero.

Of course it's a brave and courageous thing to do because: 1) mental health issues aren't accepted as medical issues in much of America and 2) people are mean and criticize anyone who shows a bit of weakness. The fact that people like you are complaining she "left her teammates in the lurch" is ridiculous--she didn't compete because she didn't feel healthy to do so.

Okay - I guess we just fundamentally disagree. I am old school and still believe that words have meaning. You are apparently from a younger generation for whom any decision anyone ever makes about anything ever is “brave” or “courageous” because they’re taking care of themselves or living their truth or some other such nonsense.

You also can’t seem to read, like most younger folks in America. At no point did I criticize Simone Biles for leaving her teammates in the lurch, but objectively that is exactly what she did. The fact that she had perfectly good and valid reasons for doing so doesn’t change that fact. They came through admirably and should be commended, and she made the best choice she had available to her at the time (withdrawing) which is certainly commendable in itself but NOT courageous. FFS, people.

So agree. This is the millennial generation, lionizing something that was nothing more than an unfortunate situation.

+1. I don’t think she should have continued, but I do fear for a generation who are being taught that letting your teammates down makes you a hero.

She gave up her chance for her teammates. Her first vault was a disaster. It was scored 13.7. If she had continued and been scored like that,Ed, they would never have medaled at all. Biles stepped back and they fought their way to silver. Biles gave up her spot for the sake of the team as well as herself. She is a class act.

Withdrawing before the team competition started and allowing a team mate to compete in her place would have been classier. They had at least one gymnast that didn’t compete who could have scored better than the three that were left in some of the remaining events.

I read a defense of her actions which went on at length about how she really wasn’t herself at the Olympic Trials, and had been “off” the entire time she’s been in Tokyo. That doesn’t help her case — it means she knew she had issues and decided to risk her team’s chances and possibly leave her teammates in the lurch.

Again, I’m not saying she should have continued, but she’s not a hero.

She.Didn't.Know.This.Was.Going.To.Happen. She's won 18 world championships and 4 gold medal and this is the first performance issue she's had. It's easy for you to play Monday morning quarterback from the safety of your couch.

Damn....say it louder for the bit$#@tchea in the back! How are all these folks not getting this? Maybe she thought she would be fine,, Maybe she thought she could push through and then she realized she couldn't! I mean what more is there to say? She's not risking her life for the team. Half of yall wouldn't visit your sick grandma during covid but you all want Simone to risk her life for the team? For American? For entertainment?

Anonymous wrote:Since most people don’t understand how the process works at all, here you go:

Once prelims are done, the team can’t change. We have 4 gymnasts for a reason. That leaves one spare for each event. Simone didn’t lost spatial awareness until after prelims. At that point, they were locked into those 4 already. She tried to push through, but became a danger to herself and she had to pull out. If she hadn’t, she probably would have injured herself AND the US wouldn’t have won any medal. If she broke her ankle after prelims, the situation would have been the same. No alternate could have subbed in.

Anonymous wrote:As a former gymnast and doctor I believe that Simone’s decision was the safest. She executes moves that are very complicated. If you’re not on top mentally and physically, the outcome could be disastrous. Things like spinal cord injury are often irreversible.
That said, lots of money was invested into her development. Simone must have had some sense that things weren’t going well. I actually believe that she dropped hints last year implying that she wasn’t sure about training for another year. With this sudden pull out, her fans deserve more of an explanation. She doesn’t need to do a tell all. Just a clear coherent explanation. For this she should regroup with her PR folks and a practitioner before further discussion.

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Anonymous wrote:Haven’t read this whole thread so I think this is a somewhat different take - but I have ZERO problem with what Simone Biles did. I DO have a problem with the way it’s being covered, however. Pulling out of a dangerous competition at the last minute, potentially leaving teammates who are counting on you in the lurch is surely a very difficult, but very rational and understandable decision. It is certainly not villainous or selfish; neither is it brave or courageous. It is just an unfortunate and crappy situation that all the gymnasts handled to the best of their ability.

WHY do we have to resort to this childish, binary, black-or-white, good-or-bad, cowardly-or-brave narrative for EVERYTHING these days? It’s ridiculous.

She’s not selfish, she’s not bad, but she’s also no hero.

Of course it's a brave and courageous thing to do because: 1) mental health issues aren't accepted as medical issues in much of America and 2) people are mean and criticize anyone who shows a bit of weakness. The fact that people like you are complaining she "left her teammates in the lurch" is ridiculous--she didn't compete because she didn't feel healthy to do so.

Okay - I guess we just fundamentally disagree. I am old school and still believe that words have meaning. You are apparently from a younger generation for whom any decision anyone ever makes about anything ever is “brave” or “courageous” because they’re taking care of themselves or living their truth or some other such nonsense.

You also can’t seem to read, like most younger folks in America. At no point did I criticize Simone Biles for leaving her teammates in the lurch, but objectively that is exactly what she did. The fact that she had perfectly good and valid reasons for doing so doesn’t change that fact. They came through admirably and should be commended, and she made the best choice she had available to her at the time (withdrawing) which is certainly commendable in itself but NOT courageous. FFS, people.

So agree. This is the millennial generation, lionizing something that was nothing more than an unfortunate situation.

+1. I don’t think she should have continued, but I do fear for a generation who are being taught that letting your teammates down makes you a hero.

She gave up her chance for her teammates. Her first vault was a disaster. It was scored 13.7. If she had continued and been scored like that,Ed, they would never have medaled at all. Biles stepped back and they fought their way to silver. Biles gave up her spot for the sake of the team as well as herself. She is a class act.

Withdrawing before the team competition started and allowing a team mate to compete in her place would have been classier. They had at least one gymnast that didn’t compete who could have scored better than the three that were left in some of the remaining events.

I read a defense of her actions which went on at length about how she really wasn’t herself at the Olympic Trials, and had been “off” the entire time she’s been in Tokyo. That doesn’t help her case — it means she knew she had issues and decided to risk her team’s chances and possibly leave her teammates in the lurch.

Again, I’m not saying she should have continued, but she’s not a hero.

She.Didn't.Know.This.Was.Going.To.Happen. She's won 18 world championships and 4 gold medal and this is the first performance issue she's had. It's easy for you to play Monday morning quarterback from the safety of your couch.

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Anonymous wrote:I just read supportive comments from Svetlana Khorkina, of all people. Nikita Nagornyy also sympathetic. Artur Dalaloyan much less so but given that he basically did the exact opposite of what she did and supporting her would be tacitly admitting he was crazy, it's not surprising.

I think a quote from famous mountaineer Ed Viesturs is apropos here. He was once asked if he thought Mallory and Irvine had achieved the summit of Everest before Hillary and Norgay. His response was, "It doesn't matter. They didn't make it back down."

Dear God. You are my people, quoting Svetlana Khorkina and Ed Viesturs in these same post!

I was floored about Khorkina's support, given some of the negative things she has said about Simone in the past. The other great Sventlana (Boginskaya) also tweeted in support of Simone. I haven't seen what Dalaloyan said, but I've seen nothing but an outpouring of support from gymnasts of all ages and nationalities.

https://www.si.com/olympics/2021/07/28/michael-phelps-backs-simone-biles-stepping-away-from-olympics
Among the voices supporting the gymnast was swimming legend Michael Phelps, who is working as a TV analyst for NBC during the Tokyo Olympics.

"The Olympics is overwhelming," the former face of the Games said to host Mike Tirico on Tuesday evening's broadcast. "There's a lot of emotions that go into it... It broke my heart. But also, if you look at it, mental health over the last 18 months is something that people are talking about."

The former Olympian commented about "the weight of gold" the athletes face, something he too struggled with. Throughout his Olympic career, Phelps earned 28 medals—23 golds, three silvers and two bronze. He became the youngest man at 15 years old to join Team USA in 68 years when he made the team for 2000 Sydney.

But even as one of the most decorated Olympians of all time, Phelps revealed in 2018 that he struggled with depression and contemplated suicide after the 2012 Olympics.

"We're humans, right? We're human beings. Nobody is perfect so yes, it is OK to not be OK. It's OK to go through ups and downs and emotional roller coasters," Phelps said to Tirico. "But I think the biggest thing is we all need to ask for help sometimes too when we go through those times. For me, I can say personally it was something very challenging. It was hard for me to ask for help. I felt like I was carrying, as Simone said, the weight of the world on [my] shoulders. It's a tough situation."

He continued, saying, "We need someone who we can trust. Somebody that can let us be ourselves and listen. Allow us to become vulnerable. Somebody who's not going to try and fix us. We carry a lot of things, a lot of weight on our shoulders, and it's challenging, especially when we have the lights on us and all of these expectations being thrown on top of us."

Phelps added that he hopes it's an "eye-opening experience" for the United States when asked whether he thought the country could give more support to Olympians for the mental health portion of the Games.

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Anonymous wrote:Haven’t read this whole thread so I think this is a somewhat different take - but I have ZERO problem with what Simone Biles did. I DO have a problem with the way it’s being covered, however. Pulling out of a dangerous competition at the last minute, potentially leaving teammates who are counting on you in the lurch is surely a very difficult, but very rational and understandable decision. It is certainly not villainous or selfish; neither is it brave or courageous. It is just an unfortunate and crappy situation that all the gymnasts handled to the best of their ability.

WHY do we have to resort to this childish, binary, black-or-white, good-or-bad, cowardly-or-brave narrative for EVERYTHING these days? It’s ridiculous.

She’s not selfish, she’s not bad, but she’s also no hero.

Of course it's a brave and courageous thing to do because: 1) mental health issues aren't accepted as medical issues in much of America and 2) people are mean and criticize anyone who shows a bit of weakness. The fact that people like you are complaining she "left her teammates in the lurch" is ridiculous--she didn't compete because she didn't feel healthy to do so.

Okay - I guess we just fundamentally disagree. I am old school and still believe that words have meaning. You are apparently from a younger generation for whom any decision anyone ever makes about anything ever is “brave” or “courageous” because they’re taking care of themselves or living their truth or some other such nonsense.

You also can’t seem to read, like most younger folks in America. At no point did I criticize Simone Biles for leaving her teammates in the lurch, but objectively that is exactly what she did. The fact that she had perfectly good and valid reasons for doing so doesn’t change that fact. They came through admirably and should be commended, and she made the best choice she had available to her at the time (withdrawing) which is certainly commendable in itself but NOT courageous. FFS, people.

So agree. This is the millennial generation, lionizing something that was nothing more than an unfortunate situation.

+1. I don’t think she should have continued, but I do fear for a generation who are being taught that letting your teammates down makes you a hero.

She gave up her chance for her teammates. Her first vault was a disaster. It was scored 13.7. If she had continued and been scored like that,Ed, they would never have medaled at all. Biles stepped back and they fought their way to silver. Biles gave up her spot for the sake of the team as well as herself. She is a class act.

Withdrawing before the team competition started and allowing a team mate to compete in her place would have been classier. They had at least one gymnast that didn’t compete who could have scored better than the three that were left in some of the remaining events.

I read a defense of her actions which went on at length about how she really wasn’t herself at the Olympic Trials, and had been “off” the entire time she’s been in Tokyo. That doesn’t help her case — it means she knew she had issues and decided to risk her team’s chances and possibly leave her teammates in the lurch.

Again, I’m not saying she should have continued, but she’s not a hero.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven’t read this whole thread so I think this is a somewhat different take - but I have ZERO problem with what Simone Biles did. I DO have a problem with the way it’s being covered, however. Pulling out of a dangerous competition at the last minute, potentially leaving teammates who are counting on you in the lurch is surely a very difficult, but very rational and understandable decision. It is certainly not villainous or selfish; neither is it brave or courageous. It is just an unfortunate and crappy situation that all the gymnasts handled to the best of their ability.

WHY do we have to resort to this childish, binary, black-or-white, good-or-bad, cowardly-or-brave narrative for EVERYTHING these days? It’s ridiculous.

She’s not selfish, she’s not bad, but she’s also no hero.

Of course it's a brave and courageous thing to do because: 1) mental health issues aren't accepted as medical issues in much of America and 2) people are mean and criticize anyone who shows a bit of weakness. The fact that people like you are complaining she "left her teammates in the lurch" is ridiculous--she didn't compete because she didn't feel healthy to do so.

Okay - I guess we just fundamentally disagree. I am old school and still believe that words have meaning. You are apparently from a younger generation for whom any decision anyone ever makes about anything ever is “brave” or “courageous” because they’re taking care of themselves or living their truth or some other such nonsense.

You also can’t seem to read, like most younger folks in America. At no point did I criticize Simone Biles for leaving her teammates in the lurch, but objectively that is exactly what she did. The fact that she had perfectly good and valid reasons for doing so doesn’t change that fact. They came through admirably and should be commended, and she made the best choice she had available to her at the time (withdrawing) which is certainly commendable in itself but NOT courageous. FFS, people.

So agree. This is the millennial generation, lionizing something that was nothing more than an unfortunate situation.

+1. I don’t think she should have continued, but I do fear for a generation who are being taught that letting your teammates down makes you a hero.

She gave up her chance for her teammates. Her first vault was a disaster. It was scored 13.7. If she had continued and been scored like that,Ed, they would never have medaled at all. Biles stepped back and they fought their way to silver. Biles gave up her spot for the sake of the team as well as herself. She is a class act.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven’t read this whole thread so I think this is a somewhat different take - but I have ZERO problem with what Simone Biles did. I DO have a problem with the way it’s being covered, however. Pulling out of a dangerous competition at the last minute, potentially leaving teammates who are counting on you in the lurch is surely a very difficult, but very rational and understandable decision. It is certainly not villainous or selfish; neither is it brave or courageous. It is just an unfortunate and crappy situation that all the gymnasts handled to the best of their ability.

WHY do we have to resort to this childish, binary, black-or-white, good-or-bad, cowardly-or-brave narrative for EVERYTHING these days? It’s ridiculous.

She’s not selfish, she’s not bad, but she’s also no hero.

Of course it's a brave and courageous thing to do because: 1) mental health issues aren't accepted as medical issues in much of America and 2) people are mean and criticize anyone who shows a bit of weakness. The fact that people like you are complaining she "left her teammates in the lurch" is ridiculous--she didn't compete because she didn't feel healthy to do so.

Okay - I guess we just fundamentally disagree. I am old school and still believe that words have meaning. You are apparently from a younger generation for whom any decision anyone ever makes about anything ever is “brave” or “courageous” because they’re taking care of themselves or living their truth or some other such nonsense.

You also can’t seem to read, like most younger folks in America. At no point did I criticize Simone Biles for leaving her teammates in the lurch, but objectively that is exactly what she did. The fact that she had perfectly good and valid reasons for doing so doesn’t change that fact. They came through admirably and should be commended, and she made the best choice she had available to her at the time (withdrawing) which is certainly commendable in itself but NOT courageous. FFS, people.

So agree. This is the millennial generation, lionizing something that was nothing more than an unfortunate situation.

+1. I don’t think she should have continued, but I do fear for a generation who are being taught that letting your teammates down makes you a hero.