To the WS-VA parent complaining about play-ups:

I get what you're saying, and I agree with a lot of in principal. A kid playing up should be good enough to start and be a significant contributor on the field at the older age group. If not, it's a lose-lose situation. Bad for the player. Bad for the teams (both the older and age-appropriate team). I also agree that there are some parents who see playing up as a badge of their kids talent, a status thing, and are ignorant of whether it is actually beneficial in a given situation or not.

But my question is, are the game reports wrong? Because at least looking at the FCV weekend, I just don't see this as a problem to the extent you are portraying it to be.

According the game reports, the only team with a significant # of playups was the U18/19s. They had 5 '02s with them, all of whom got significant minutes. They lost 2-1.

No question if those 02s had played at age, the U16/U17s would have done better. They lost 2-0. But, they had 0 play-ups. At least according to the game report, everyone who played in that game was of age - 03/02. Still, no doubt that team was weakened by the loss of 5 of their best 02s.

That brings us to the 04s and 05s though.

Since none of the 04s were playing up, that team should have been able to make a strong showing. They had only 1 '05 with them, and I don't think she's one of the players you are talking about. She's a good player with the size and athleticism to compete at that age group, and she usually starts (as she did in this game). FCV had 2 '05s on their 04 team. FCV won 3-0.

The '05s, who were only missing 1 of their best players to the older team, also had only 1 play-up, the 07. They lost 5-1, to a team that was missing 2 of its better players to the older team.

Your posts give the impression that there are multiple play-ups in every age group, which weakens all of the teams across the club, but that just doesn't seem to match reality. As far as I can tell, the only team that would have significantly weakened by the play-ups is the U16/17 team.

Anonymous wrote:Do the online rosters show the actual rosters to include these player play-ups?

No. You can only see them on the game reports. If they did that, some teams would have too many players, so they "roster" them in their own age group to get around that.

If they had, that at least would have been honest. We would have seen it clearly the way every other DA does.

Do the online rosters show the actual rosters to include these player play-ups?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Next year, I will. But we've paid our money, so we have to ride it out for this year. So that's why I'm concerned about repercussions. If she were a bench warmer, there would be nothing to take away.

Right now, she plays every game. Worse would be a crappy environment, dragged down by play ups, and NOT playing.

I’m sure some price point could be worked out with another club if you left. Any travel expenses would be a wash at this point. You might have to spend a little to dig out of the hole but what is the overall cost and detriment to staying? If you stay, she will fall behind developmentally, you will only get more and more mad. I can’t imagine it is a fun topic at home right now. If you are unwilling or to concerned about the risks of working it out then you simply need to move on and turn the page.

That's a good point. I'll think on what you said. There is definitely a risk in staying because a year is a long time developmentally speaking. I will look and see how full other clubs worth going to are.

Someone also said I consider supplementing outside of the club to compensate.

Anonymous wrote:Next year, I will. But we've paid our money, so we have to ride it out for this year. So that's why I'm concerned about repercussions. If she were a bench warmer, there would be nothing to take away.

Right now, she plays every game. Worse would be a crappy environment, dragged down by play ups, and NOT playing.

I’m sure some price point could be worked out with another club if you left. Any travel expenses would be a wash at this point. You might have to spend a little to dig out of the hole but what is the overall cost and detriment to staying? If you stay, she will fall behind developmentally, you will only get more and more mad. I can’t imagine it is a fun topic at home right now. If you are unwilling or to concerned about the risks of working it out then you simply need to move on and turn the page.

I haven't ruled out a parent meeting, but when I spoke to another parent about it, they warned me about what happened to players last year for speaking out, so naturally I want to look before I leap.

And I should have probably realized something was wrong when Spirit VA had the record it had, but like an idiot, I believed all the "development over wins" sales pitch.

The right answer is that development will eventually lead to wins and when you see a club with teams doing as poorly as this one, there's always a real reason. They had ridiculous rosters last year too and did playing up last year too. So I do blame myself for thinking it was just a one year hiccup with a start up.

Next year, I will. But we've paid our money, so we have to ride it out for this year. So that's why I'm concerned about repercussions. If she were a bench warmer, there would be nothing to take away.

Right now, she plays every game. Worse would be a crappy environment, dragged down by play ups, and NOT playing.

Anonymous wrote:The club staff can punish players. We all know black balling can happen. I still haven't ruled it out, but right now, my DD sees a lot of time. She may have a crappy training environment and the play ups may be like an anchor on the team, but if I could turn that into not playing. That's what happened to the players last year. They ended up having to leave, or maybe choosing to after things went from bad to worse.

As for playing up, trying it to see, sure. Doing it game after endless game, even when the player clearly is out of her depth, clearly it makes the rest of the team play as if they are a man down, that's not DA. That's Spirit VA managing overly large rosters.

I guess I don’t understand why if it is so bad you are concerned about the repercussions. If your DD is talented you can land anywhere else. Why put you or your DD through it? You either need to try and address it with the other parents or just walk away and don’t look back. If you are unwilling to reach out to the parents you in fact are the one suffering in silence.

The club staff can punish players. We all know black balling can happen. I still haven't ruled it out, but right now, my DD sees a lot of time. She may have a crappy training environment and the play ups may be like an anchor on the team, but if I could turn that into not playing. That's what happened to the players last year. They ended up having to leave, or maybe choosing to after things went from bad to worse.

As for playing up, trying it to see, sure. Doing it game after endless game, even when the player clearly is out of her depth, clearly it makes the rest of the team play as if they are a man down, that's not DA. That's Spirit VA managing overly large rosters.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you aren't keeping up against an older age group team, you aren't doing well. You're just running around and expending energy that would be better served in your own age group where you might have a chance at making a contribution.

Maybe it is an indication that they need play ups as the talent at that age group just isnt good enough? Perhaps a younger kid just "running around expending energy" does a better job? Maybe the play-ups have a better ceiling, so they are being given the opportunities now.

That should be what it is. GDA and its Talent ID system should be to observe players and project the players forward into the future. It is not solely about what they are doing now, but what they are expected to be capable of going forward.

Anonymous wrote:I thought about that. I'm debating it. I heard though that several parents of an older team did that last year and got punished by the club for speaking out. Some of the parents pulled their players out in the spring as a result.

I haven't ruled it out. The concern is making a terrible situation even worse, but it's a good idea normally.

I’m not sure how it could make things worse for you or your DD. At least it would be an opportunity to get things out in the open, clear the air and at least try and resolve the issues. Venting here might make you feel better but it isn’t accomplishing anything and it is likely simply making you even more mad without any meaningful outlet.

Is it the meeting you have been thinking about and haven’t tried arranging or is it just the act of reaching out that you haven’t yet done?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you aren't keeping up against an older age group team, you aren't doing well. You're just running around and expending energy that would be better served in your own age group where you might have a chance at making a contribution.

Maybe it is an indication that they need play ups as the talent at that age group just isnt good enough? Perhaps a younger kid just "running around expending energy" does a better job? Maybe the play-ups have a better ceiling, so they are being given the opportunities now.

No, definitely not.to do a better job you have to be better at ball winning, passing, shot taking, the things players do in soccer. When I say running around, I mean because that is all they are doing. They can barely get foot to ball. So no way that is better than the players who are actually capable of it.

Anonymous wrote:If you aren't keeping up against an older age group team, you aren't doing well. You're just running around and expending energy that would be better served in your own age group where you might have a chance at making a contribution.

Maybe it is an indication that they need play ups as the talent at that age group just isnt good enough? Perhaps a younger kid just "running around expending energy" does a better job? Maybe the play-ups have a better ceiling, so they are being given the opportunities now.

I thought about that. I'm debating it. I heard though that several parents of an older team did that last year and got punished by the club for speaking out. Some of the parents pulled their players out in the spring as a result.

I haven't ruled it out. The concern is making a terrible situation even worse, but it's a good idea normally.

Any word on whether Spirit VA will have Fall ID Sessions like the MD team?