Anonymous wrote:ICYMI Josh Sargent agrees with Pulisic, not enough playing time in MLS for really young players.

https://deadspin.com/usmnt-starlet-josh-sargent-inadvertently-offers-scathin-1821274105

Does Pulisic really have the knowledge and experience with MLS to make these comments? Remember a lot of MLS players spent 4 fours in college. The NCAA restricts and limits the practice time and amount of games.

ICYMI Josh Sargent agrees with Pulisic, not enough playing time in MLS for really young players.

https://deadspin.com/usmnt-starlet-josh-sargent-inadvertently-offers-scathin-1821274105

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well the problems are:

1. We want to win World Cup and develop international quality players
2. We hate "pay to play"
3. MLS sucks.
4. We don't want to pay the actual price to achieve any of the above or improve upon any of the above.

Every system has its flaws its the ones you're willing to live with that matter.

So true. On the "actual price" front, while reading the recent posts I've been thinking about how so many people in the States think it's an absolute tragedy that USSF makes kids choose between playing DA and playing high school. Compare that with the actual tragedy of a diminished future for so many of the kids cut from academies in England.

The stakes for us are relatively low currently. As difficult as is playing in college is not an unattainable goal. If a kid wants to play soccer in college, if they work hard enough they can. Some paths make it easier to achieve than others but hard work can get you there.

In Europe, the proximity of the local pro club makes the dream seem tangible for many but the quality required to achieve the dream is on a scale of magnitudes greater than my kid playing in college.

Precisely, just because you live in Boston doesn't mean you're going to Harvard.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well the problems are:

1. We want to win World Cup and develop international quality players
2. We hate "pay to play"
3. MLS sucks.
4. We don't want to pay the actual price to achieve any of the above or improve upon any of the above.

Every system has its flaws its the ones you're willing to live with that matter.

So true. On the "actual price" front, while reading the recent posts I've been thinking about how so many people in the States think it's an absolute tragedy that USSF makes kids choose between playing DA and playing high school. Compare that with the actual tragedy of a diminished future for so many of the kids cut from academies in England.

The stakes for us are relatively low currently. As difficult as is playing in college is not an unattainable goal. If a kid wants to play soccer in college, if they work hard enough they can. Some paths make it easier to achieve than others but hard work can get you there.

In Europe, the proximity of the local pro club makes the dream seem tangible for many but the quality required to achieve the dream is on a scale of magnitudes greater than my kid playing in college.

Anonymous wrote:Well the problems are:

1. We want to win World Cup and develop international quality players
2. We hate "pay to play"
3. MLS sucks.
4. We don't want to pay the actual price to achieve any of the above or improve upon any of the above.

Every system has its flaws its the ones you're willing to live with that matter.

So true. On the "actual price" front, while reading the recent posts I've been thinking about how so many people in the States think it's an absolute tragedy that USSF makes kids choose between playing DA and playing high school. Compare that with the actual tragedy of a diminished future for so many of the kids cut from academies in England.

Well the problems are:

1. We want to win World Cup and develop international quality players
2. We hate "pay to play"
3. MLS sucks.
4. We don't want to pay the actual price to achieve any of the above or improve upon any of the above.

Every system has its flaws its the ones you're willing to live with that matter.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those idealizing the European academy system:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/oct/06/football-biggest-issue-boys-rejected-academies

Considering the odds, not being able to send our kids to Europe at a young age may be a blessing in disguise...

So glad you posted this, there was also another article about a group of boys who after being rejected by the UK academies at a young age, their father's decided to take a risk on a separate private training program that would have them playing tournaments in France with the idea that would be scouted and have another chance. It was very eye-opening as I too was one of the people who assumed all academy players were awesome and were on a path to guaranteed contracts, playing time, rich and fame. Clearly I was being naive about the prospects but also thought that parents chasing a dream was an American experience. Once I do find it, I will share it here.

That really was depressing to read. I'm glad that there is starting to be more of a focus of the mental health needs of the kids who get cut from the UK academies. The part of the article that discusses how middle class parents are more realistic about their kids chances and more able to help with resources to find alternative paths careers vs. the poorer and less educated families is striking. We are lucky that most kids here will be able to attend college if the don't realize their pro dreams.

Telling, that paragraph was very informative to me as well; I've read a lot of opinions here but this is almost a foretelling of a potential future the US soccer landscape can go towards if we don't make the right decisions now.

I do worry about the kids who go to the residential soccer academies some clubs run in the States. None of them are winning prizes for academic excellence, and others are considered basically a joke. There is no saying the kids who are trying to make it as pros would be excelling academically if they stayed at home either--that mostly comes down to their home environment and interests. Other sports have obviously dealt with this problem for years--the issues were really well chronicled in Hoop Dreams. But soccer is slowly starting to become a somewhat more viable professional option for many more kids, so we are in the early stages.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those idealizing the European academy system:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/oct/06/football-biggest-issue-boys-rejected-academies

Considering the odds, not being able to send our kids to Europe at a young age may be a blessing in disguise...

It is absolutely cut throat. But that is what happens when the player is the product. That was a really great article and thanks for sharing. So, to my point, that article represents the type of system that the MLS is up against. And cruel or not, it pretty much weeds out the lesser players or reveals them. There was a similar article about AJAX academy a couple of years ago and it is another very demanding program.

But the passion and drive that kids (and mostly their parents) have to make their local club's academy is what I've been driving at the past page or two, is what we lack.

The Ajax set up is very different though. They only take kids who live within a certain distance of Amsterdam, and kids live at home and attend their local schools for most of their training years. They likely feel crushed when they are cut, but they have had semi-normal childhoods and have made non-football friends and connections. I imagine they don't struggle nearly as much with adapting to their post-Ajax life as the kids in the UK do.

Agree, the impressions from what I remember that while the environment was very sterile and clinical, it came off as more like school. You go, you practice you go home. The end can come at any point but I think most kids go into AJAX hoping more to be seen by other clubs than actually hoping to play for AJAX.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those idealizing the European academy system:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/oct/06/football-biggest-issue-boys-rejected-academies

Considering the odds, not being able to send our kids to Europe at a young age may be a blessing in disguise...

It is absolutely cut throat. But that is what happens when the player is the product. That was a really great article and thanks for sharing. So, to my point, that article represents the type of system that the MLS is up against. And cruel or not, it pretty much weeds out the lesser players or reveals them. There was a similar article about AJAX academy a couple of years ago and it is another very demanding program.

But the passion and drive that kids (and mostly their parents) have to make their local club's academy is what I've been driving at the past page or two, is what we lack.

The Ajax set up is very different though. They only take kids who live within a certain distance of Amsterdam, and kids live at home and attend their local schools for most of their training years. They likely feel crushed when they are cut, but they have had semi-normal childhoods and have made non-football friends and connections. I imagine they don't struggle nearly as much with adapting to their post-Ajax life as the kids in the UK do.

It seems like the issue everyone is complaining about is telling a 5-13 year old they are destined for greatness, whether they're 5 miles from home or 500.

The article is here in case anybody is interested in reading and hasn't found it yet.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those idealizing the European academy system:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/oct/06/football-biggest-issue-boys-rejected-academies

Considering the odds, not being able to send our kids to Europe at a young age may be a blessing in disguise...

So glad you posted this, there was also another article about a group of boys who after being rejected by the UK academies at a young age, their father's decided to take a risk on a separate private training program that would have them playing tournaments in France with the idea that would be scouted and have another chance. It was very eye-opening as I too was one of the people who assumed all academy players were awesome and were on a path to guaranteed contracts, playing time, rich and fame. Clearly I was being naive about the prospects but also thought that parents chasing a dream was an American experience. Once I do find it, I will share it here.

That really was depressing to read. I'm glad that there is starting to be more of a focus of the mental health needs of the kids who get cut from the UK academies. The part of the article that discusses how middle class parents are more realistic about their kids chances and more able to help with resources to find alternative paths careers vs. the poorer and less educated families is striking. We are lucky that most kids here will be able to attend college if the don't realize their pro dreams.

Telling, that paragraph was very informative to me as well; I've read a lot of opinions here but this is almost a foretelling of a potential future the US soccer landscape can go towards if we don't make the right decisions now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those idealizing the European academy system:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/oct/06/football-biggest-issue-boys-rejected-academies

Considering the odds, not being able to send our kids to Europe at a young age may be a blessing in disguise...

It is absolutely cut throat. But that is what happens when the player is the product. That was a really great article and thanks for sharing. So, to my point, that article represents the type of system that the MLS is up against. And cruel or not, it pretty much weeds out the lesser players or reveals them. There was a similar article about AJAX academy a couple of years ago and it is another very demanding program.

But the passion and drive that kids (and mostly their parents) have to make their local club's academy is what I've been driving at the past page or two, is what we lack.

The Ajax set up is very different though. They only take kids who live within a certain distance of Amsterdam, and kids live at home and attend their local schools for most of their training years. They likely feel crushed when they are cut, but they have had semi-normal childhoods and have made non-football friends and connections. I imagine they don't struggle nearly as much with adapting to their post-Ajax life as the kids in the UK do.

OMG check out this paragraph... did the conversation here possibly foresee the potential difference in well-off families with son's vs those that come from poorer neighborhoods.

[b]"Oshodi says that in his experience of the many young men he has seen released, he saw a broad class divide in the consequences. Better-off, middle-class parents had absorbed more clearly the bleak chance of their sons attaining a professional football career, had emphasised the importance of continuing education throughout and could draw on more resources to support their boys into alternative options. Many whom Oshodi knows from less advantaged backgrounds struggled to negotiate the system with that perspective, he says. Many, having spent years in the academies, have hard landings back into their disadvantaged neighbourhoods, and fall into crime and drug dealing."[b]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those idealizing the European academy system:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/oct/06/football-biggest-issue-boys-rejected-academies

Considering the odds, not being able to send our kids to Europe at a young age may be a blessing in disguise...

So glad you posted this, there was also another article about a group of boys who after being rejected by the UK academies at a young age, their father's decided to take a risk on a separate private training program that would have them playing tournaments in France with the idea that would be scouted and have another chance. It was very eye-opening as I too was one of the people who assumed all academy players were awesome and were on a path to guaranteed contracts, playing time, rich and fame. Clearly I was being naive about the prospects but also thought that parents chasing a dream was an American experience. Once I do find it, I will share it here.

That really was depressing to read. I'm glad that there is starting to be more of a focus of the mental health needs of the kids who get cut from the UK academies. The part of the article that discusses how middle class parents are more realistic about their kids chances and more able to help with resources to find alternative paths careers vs. the poorer and less educated families is striking. We are lucky that most kids here will be able to attend college if the don't realize their pro dreams.

Anonymous wrote:For those idealizing the European academy system:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/oct/06/football-biggest-issue-boys-rejected-academies

Considering the odds, not being able to send our kids to Europe at a young age may be a blessing in disguise...

It is absolutely cut throat. But that is what happens when the player is the product. That was a really great article and thanks for sharing. So, to my point, that article represents the type of system that the MLS is up against. And cruel or not, it pretty much weeds out the lesser players or reveals them. There was a similar article about AJAX academy a couple of years ago and it is another very demanding program.

But the passion and drive that kids (and mostly their parents) have to make their local club's academy is what I've been driving at the past page or two, is what we lack.

Anonymous wrote:Here is the article about English academy castoffs.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/10/20/sports/soccer/premier-league-youth-soccer.amp.html

Soccer youth development is a minefield, I wonder what the articles of Spanish, Italian, German, Dutch, and French academies would say.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/apr/19/pitfall-pressure-parents-little-diamond-youth-football

Sounds very much like what a free system could turn into. Currently we have to pay to play, but as customers we have the expectation of a certain type of service(training/coaching). I see how parents would be powerless once they sign for the son's to join an academy. The 'training centers' probably looked good on paper, but you can see how clubs have taken advantage of the loophole and tried to hold on to players they are unsure of, but don't want another club to scoop them up or worse see something they themselves couldn't and sign the player.