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Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

I am just saying it will be worse than before. Tried to refrain from providing my opinion on this one.

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Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.

Um, no. The “Europeans” you refer to are the French and Germans, who likely do not see the Ukrainians as peers; that is true.

But the center of European political and economic power has, and will continue, to shift away from Paris and Berlin.

Further, Poland - a traditional cultural enemy of Ukraine - has become Ukraine’s chief backer and ally. A Polish-Ukrainian-Czech alliance would soon overshadow the lynchpin: France and Germany. Ukraine has astounding natural resources and on top of that, it was always the technological brain-trust of the USSR; their nuclear weapons and advanced systems were once made there. Their flagship - the Moskva- was built by Ukraine, and sunk by an advanced Ukrainian nuptune ASM.

Ukraine will become a member of the EU and NATO. Whether Russia breaks up in a civil war among rival oligarchs remains to be seen.

If that were true, Ukraine would not have become a primarily agrarian nation post-USSR breakup.

Without wishing to hurt the feeling of the world' top producer of pickled cucumbers, "Poland" and "economic power" has rarely been mentioned in the same sentence and it is not clear why it would, when Poland's products and services aren't entering or dominating new markets.

Ukraine has excellent software developers, engineers, and are leaders in many areas of technology and manufacturing such as aerospace and shipbuilding.

Leaders in what field? Please explain with numbers of market capitalization. Or maybe name one area of technology and manufacturing in which Ukraine is a world leader.

Best outsourced programmers in the world.

But the world doesn’t need the best ones. It needs cheap Indian ones whose strength is in numbers. Or maybe they just overtook the market.

Anonymous wrote:Trump will end this terrible war. The day cannot come soon enough.

Voting for trump would be against all my interests but I am seriously considering voting for him just to end the war. I think both countries’ governments are bad, though Russia’s is worse, but I want the war to stop and ordinary people to stop bearing the brunt of their political battles.

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Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.

Um, no. The “Europeans” you refer to are the French and Germans, who likely do not see the Ukrainians as peers; that is true.

But the center of European political and economic power has, and will continue, to shift away from Paris and Berlin.

Further, Poland - a traditional cultural enemy of Ukraine - has become Ukraine’s chief backer and ally. A Polish-Ukrainian-Czech alliance would soon overshadow the lynchpin: France and Germany. Ukraine has astounding natural resources and on top of that, it was always the technological brain-trust of the USSR; their nuclear weapons and advanced systems were once made there. Their flagship - the Moskva- was built by Ukraine, and sunk by an advanced Ukrainian nuptune ASM.

Ukraine will become a member of the EU and NATO. Whether Russia breaks up in a civil war among rival oligarchs remains to be seen.

If that were true, Ukraine would not have become a primarily agrarian nation post-USSR breakup.

Without wishing to hurt the feeling of the world' top producer of pickled cucumbers, "Poland" and "economic power" has rarely been mentioned in the same sentence and it is not clear why it would, when Poland's products and services aren't entering or dominating new markets.

Ukraine has excellent software developers, engineers, and are leaders in many areas of technology and manufacturing such as aerospace and shipbuilding.

Leaders in what field? Please explain with numbers of market capitalization. Or maybe name one area of technology and manufacturing in which Ukraine is a world leader.

Pretty much anything good that the Soviet Union and Russian Federation ever designed and built came from Ukraine.

So why is Ukraine known as a primarily agrarian nation?

I mean name one Ukrainian non-agri export.

You're the only one here incorrectly insisting their only export is agriculture and that they are not known for any other commodities or commercial products.
Several other people here have pointed out this is not the case. Your own ignorance in the matter is not our problem.

Anonymous wrote:Trump will end this terrible war. The day cannot come soon enough.

Hah! Trump will have his hands full keeping himself out of jail. The Steele files won't matter after the second or third conviction, so whatever leverage the Russian's have over him is a waste of energy. Better to just release the files for propaganda value while it's still worth something.

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Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.

Um, no. The “Europeans” you refer to are the French and Germans, who likely do not see the Ukrainians as peers; that is true.

But the center of European political and economic power has, and will continue, to shift away from Paris and Berlin.

Further, Poland - a traditional cultural enemy of Ukraine - has become Ukraine’s chief backer and ally. A Polish-Ukrainian-Czech alliance would soon overshadow the lynchpin: France and Germany. Ukraine has astounding natural resources and on top of that, it was always the technological brain-trust of the USSR; their nuclear weapons and advanced systems were once made there. Their flagship - the Moskva- was built by Ukraine, and sunk by an advanced Ukrainian nuptune ASM.

Ukraine will become a member of the EU and NATO. Whether Russia breaks up in a civil war among rival oligarchs remains to be seen.

If that were true, Ukraine would not have become a primarily agrarian nation post-USSR breakup.

Without wishing to hurt the feeling of the world' top producer of pickled cucumbers, "Poland" and "economic power" has rarely been mentioned in the same sentence and it is not clear why it would, when Poland's products and services aren't entering or dominating new markets.

Ukraine has excellent software developers, engineers, and are leaders in many areas of technology and manufacturing such as aerospace and shipbuilding.

Leaders in what field? Please explain with numbers of market capitalization. Or maybe name one area of technology and manufacturing in which Ukraine is a world leader.

How about the Antonov Mriya - one of the largest aircraft ever built? Or how about the fact that the Russian navy is falling apart, because they no longer have Ukrainian naval experts to fix and design their ships?

If you what you're saying is true, their excellence would have been known to the world commercially, and it isn't.

Agree with the comment that Ukraine was a leader in many areas of technology. Some of the heavy weapons that Russians rely upon (tanks, strategic rocket parts, heavy industry such as shipbuilding) were located in the eastern part of Ukraine when it was part of the USSR. I thought the very special submarine pen in Crimea was pretty cool as well, but unfortunate that it was bottlenecked by the Mediterranean.

Russian tech used to be top-notch, but not anymore.

"The situation has gotten so bad that Moscow has begun cannibalizing older weapons and even scavenging non-military hardware, such as fridges and dishwashers, for microchips that could go into missiles and other weapons."
https://news.yahoo.com/russias-scramble-microchips-weapons-hints-222300076.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

So how is Russia going to fix it? By 'pulling a Putin' of course!

Putin decreed "authorities should create attractive financial, social "and other mechanisms for preserving human capital and reducing the outflow of the population" of Russia"
https://www.rbc.ru/politics/12/05/2023/645e29229a7947b1774f7a66?from=from_main_1

Now, how do you actually do that? Have border guards hold fans of Roubles yelling "come here!"? Dress up the FSB as clowns when they pass out draft notices? Turn the Federation into a theme park, with tank rides, grenade toss for prizes, a hunt the sub tub?

Or maybe the Russian government can lure enough MAGA Republicans to build a 'fun' colony? (Although I don't know how 'fun' a colony of bitter MAGA Republicans would be...)
https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgwdew/russia-maga-colony

You can't make this stuff up.

Trump will end this terrible war. The day cannot come soon enough.

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Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.

Um, no. The “Europeans” you refer to are the French and Germans, who likely do not see the Ukrainians as peers; that is true.

But the center of European political and economic power has, and will continue, to shift away from Paris and Berlin.

Further, Poland - a traditional cultural enemy of Ukraine - has become Ukraine’s chief backer and ally. A Polish-Ukrainian-Czech alliance would soon overshadow the lynchpin: France and Germany. Ukraine has astounding natural resources and on top of that, it was always the technological brain-trust of the USSR; their nuclear weapons and advanced systems were once made there. Their flagship - the Moskva- was built by Ukraine, and sunk by an advanced Ukrainian nuptune ASM.

Ukraine will become a member of the EU and NATO. Whether Russia breaks up in a civil war among rival oligarchs remains to be seen.

If that were true, Ukraine would not have become a primarily agrarian nation post-USSR breakup.

Without wishing to hurt the feeling of the world' top producer of pickled cucumbers, "Poland" and "economic power" has rarely been mentioned in the same sentence and it is not clear why it would, when Poland's products and services aren't entering or dominating new markets.

Ukraine has excellent software developers, engineers, and are leaders in many areas of technology and manufacturing such as aerospace and shipbuilding.

Leaders in what field? Please explain with numbers of market capitalization. Or maybe name one area of technology and manufacturing in which Ukraine is a world leader.

Pretty much anything good that the Soviet Union and Russian Federation ever designed and built came from Ukraine.

So why is Ukraine known as a primarily agrarian nation?

I mean name one Ukrainian non-agri export.

This is so weird. The parts Russia has invaded have tons of non-agricultural resources. Do they not count?

I mean I've been asking for examples and numbers of Ukraine's claimed leadership in "many areas of technology and manufacturing", and no one really says anything.

They are the largest exporter of seed-oil in the world while their largest export is Iron. They are also very well known for the quality of their software engineers and shipbuilding

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Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.

Um, no. The “Europeans” you refer to are the French and Germans, who likely do not see the Ukrainians as peers; that is true.

But the center of European political and economic power has, and will continue, to shift away from Paris and Berlin.

Further, Poland - a traditional cultural enemy of Ukraine - has become Ukraine’s chief backer and ally. A Polish-Ukrainian-Czech alliance would soon overshadow the lynchpin: France and Germany. Ukraine has astounding natural resources and on top of that, it was always the technological brain-trust of the USSR; their nuclear weapons and advanced systems were once made there. Their flagship - the Moskva- was built by Ukraine, and sunk by an advanced Ukrainian nuptune ASM.

Ukraine will become a member of the EU and NATO. Whether Russia breaks up in a civil war among rival oligarchs remains to be seen.

If that were true, Ukraine would not have become a primarily agrarian nation post-USSR breakup.

Without wishing to hurt the feeling of the world' top producer of pickled cucumbers, "Poland" and "economic power" has rarely been mentioned in the same sentence and it is not clear why it would, when Poland's products and services aren't entering or dominating new markets.

Ukraine has excellent software developers, engineers, and are leaders in many areas of technology and manufacturing such as aerospace and shipbuilding.

Leaders in what field? Please explain with numbers of market capitalization. Or maybe name one area of technology and manufacturing in which Ukraine is a world leader.

Pretty much anything good that the Soviet Union and Russian Federation ever designed and built came from Ukraine.

So why is Ukraine known as a primarily agrarian nation?

I mean name one Ukrainian non-agri export.

This is so weird. The parts Russia has invaded have tons of non-agricultural resources. Do they not count?

I mean I've been asking for examples and numbers of Ukraine's claimed leadership in "many areas of technology and manufacturing", and no one really says anything.

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Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.

Um, no. The “Europeans” you refer to are the French and Germans, who likely do not see the Ukrainians as peers; that is true.

But the center of European political and economic power has, and will continue, to shift away from Paris and Berlin.

Further, Poland - a traditional cultural enemy of Ukraine - has become Ukraine’s chief backer and ally. A Polish-Ukrainian-Czech alliance would soon overshadow the lynchpin: France and Germany. Ukraine has astounding natural resources and on top of that, it was always the technological brain-trust of the USSR; their nuclear weapons and advanced systems were once made there. Their flagship - the Moskva- was built by Ukraine, and sunk by an advanced Ukrainian nuptune ASM.

Ukraine will become a member of the EU and NATO. Whether Russia breaks up in a civil war among rival oligarchs remains to be seen.

If that were true, Ukraine would not have become a primarily agrarian nation post-USSR breakup.

Without wishing to hurt the feeling of the world' top producer of pickled cucumbers, "Poland" and "economic power" has rarely been mentioned in the same sentence and it is not clear why it would, when Poland's products and services aren't entering or dominating new markets.

Ukraine has excellent software developers, engineers, and are leaders in many areas of technology and manufacturing such as aerospace and shipbuilding.

Leaders in what field? Please explain with numbers of market capitalization. Or maybe name one area of technology and manufacturing in which Ukraine is a world leader.

Pretty much anything good that the Soviet Union and Russian Federation ever designed and built came from Ukraine.

So why is Ukraine known as a primarily agrarian nation?

I mean name one Ukrainian non-agri export.

They are the market leader of exporting dead Russians. Although no one seems to be taking them; they are making lots of them to benefit the world.

The killing market is crowded though, and many nations are better at it than Ukrainians. Fail at leadership.

Have to disagree. There is no country on earth, besides Russia, better at killing Russians.

LOL bested by Russia, again!

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Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.

Um, no. The “Europeans” you refer to are the French and Germans, who likely do not see the Ukrainians as peers; that is true.

But the center of European political and economic power has, and will continue, to shift away from Paris and Berlin.

Further, Poland - a traditional cultural enemy of Ukraine - has become Ukraine’s chief backer and ally. A Polish-Ukrainian-Czech alliance would soon overshadow the lynchpin: France and Germany. Ukraine has astounding natural resources and on top of that, it was always the technological brain-trust of the USSR; their nuclear weapons and advanced systems were once made there. Their flagship - the Moskva- was built by Ukraine, and sunk by an advanced Ukrainian nuptune ASM.

Ukraine will become a member of the EU and NATO. Whether Russia breaks up in a civil war among rival oligarchs remains to be seen.

If that were true, Ukraine would not have become a primarily agrarian nation post-USSR breakup.

Without wishing to hurt the feeling of the world' top producer of pickled cucumbers, "Poland" and "economic power" has rarely been mentioned in the same sentence and it is not clear why it would, when Poland's products and services aren't entering or dominating new markets.

Ukraine has excellent software developers, engineers, and are leaders in many areas of technology and manufacturing such as aerospace and shipbuilding.

Leaders in what field? Please explain with numbers of market capitalization. Or maybe name one area of technology and manufacturing in which Ukraine is a world leader.

Pretty much anything good that the Soviet Union and Russian Federation ever designed and built came from Ukraine.

So why is Ukraine known as a primarily agrarian nation?

I mean name one Ukrainian non-agri export.

They are the market leader of exporting dead Russians. Although no one seems to be taking them; they are making lots of them to benefit the world.

The killing market is crowded though, and many nations are better at it than Ukrainians. Fail at leadership.

Have to disagree. There is no country on earth, besides Russia, better at killing Russians.

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Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.

Um, no. The “Europeans” you refer to are the French and Germans, who likely do not see the Ukrainians as peers; that is true.

But the center of European political and economic power has, and will continue, to shift away from Paris and Berlin.

Further, Poland - a traditional cultural enemy of Ukraine - has become Ukraine’s chief backer and ally. A Polish-Ukrainian-Czech alliance would soon overshadow the lynchpin: France and Germany. Ukraine has astounding natural resources and on top of that, it was always the technological brain-trust of the USSR; their nuclear weapons and advanced systems were once made there. Their flagship - the Moskva- was built by Ukraine, and sunk by an advanced Ukrainian nuptune ASM.

Ukraine will become a member of the EU and NATO. Whether Russia breaks up in a civil war among rival oligarchs remains to be seen.

If that were true, Ukraine would not have become a primarily agrarian nation post-USSR breakup.

Without wishing to hurt the feeling of the world' top producer of pickled cucumbers, "Poland" and "economic power" has rarely been mentioned in the same sentence and it is not clear why it would, when Poland's products and services aren't entering or dominating new markets.

Ukraine has excellent software developers, engineers, and are leaders in many areas of technology and manufacturing such as aerospace and shipbuilding.

Leaders in what field? Please explain with numbers of market capitalization. Or maybe name one area of technology and manufacturing in which Ukraine is a world leader.

Pretty much anything good that the Soviet Union and Russian Federation ever designed and built came from Ukraine.

So why is Ukraine known as a primarily agrarian nation?

I mean name one Ukrainian non-agri export.

This is so weird. The parts Russia has invaded have tons of non-agricultural resources. Do they not count?

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.

Um, no. The “Europeans” you refer to are the French and Germans, who likely do not see the Ukrainians as peers; that is true.

But the center of European political and economic power has, and will continue, to shift away from Paris and Berlin.

Further, Poland - a traditional cultural enemy of Ukraine - has become Ukraine’s chief backer and ally. A Polish-Ukrainian-Czech alliance would soon overshadow the lynchpin: France and Germany. Ukraine has astounding natural resources and on top of that, it was always the technological brain-trust of the USSR; their nuclear weapons and advanced systems were once made there. Their flagship - the Moskva- was built by Ukraine, and sunk by an advanced Ukrainian nuptune ASM.

Ukraine will become a member of the EU and NATO. Whether Russia breaks up in a civil war among rival oligarchs remains to be seen.

If that were true, Ukraine would not have become a primarily agrarian nation post-USSR breakup.

Without wishing to hurt the feeling of the world' top producer of pickled cucumbers, "Poland" and "economic power" has rarely been mentioned in the same sentence and it is not clear why it would, when Poland's products and services aren't entering or dominating new markets.

Ukraine has excellent software developers, engineers, and are leaders in many areas of technology and manufacturing such as aerospace and shipbuilding.

Leaders in what field? Please explain with numbers of market capitalization. Or maybe name one area of technology and manufacturing in which Ukraine is a world leader.

Pretty much anything good that the Soviet Union and Russian Federation ever designed and built came from Ukraine.

So why is Ukraine known as a primarily agrarian nation?

I mean name one Ukrainian non-agri export.

They are the market leader of exporting dead Russians. Although no one seems to be taking them; they are making lots of them to benefit the world.

The killing market is crowded though, and many nations are better at it than Ukrainians. Fail at leadership.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.

Um, no. The “Europeans” you refer to are the French and Germans, who likely do not see the Ukrainians as peers; that is true.

But the center of European political and economic power has, and will continue, to shift away from Paris and Berlin.

Further, Poland - a traditional cultural enemy of Ukraine - has become Ukraine’s chief backer and ally. A Polish-Ukrainian-Czech alliance would soon overshadow the lynchpin: France and Germany. Ukraine has astounding natural resources and on top of that, it was always the technological brain-trust of the USSR; their nuclear weapons and advanced systems were once made there. Their flagship - the Moskva- was built by Ukraine, and sunk by an advanced Ukrainian nuptune ASM.

Ukraine will become a member of the EU and NATO. Whether Russia breaks up in a civil war among rival oligarchs remains to be seen.

If that were true, Ukraine would not have become a primarily agrarian nation post-USSR breakup.

Without wishing to hurt the feeling of the world' top producer of pickled cucumbers, "Poland" and "economic power" has rarely been mentioned in the same sentence and it is not clear why it would, when Poland's products and services aren't entering or dominating new markets.

Ukraine has excellent software developers, engineers, and are leaders in many areas of technology and manufacturing such as aerospace and shipbuilding.

Leaders in what field? Please explain with numbers of market capitalization. Or maybe name one area of technology and manufacturing in which Ukraine is a world leader.

How about the Antonov Mriya - one of the largest aircraft ever built? Or how about the fact that the Russian navy is falling apart, because they no longer have Ukrainian naval experts to fix and design their ships?

If you what you're saying is true, their excellence would have been known to the world commercially, and it isn't.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.

Um, no. The “Europeans” you refer to are the French and Germans, who likely do not see the Ukrainians as peers; that is true.

But the center of European political and economic power has, and will continue, to shift away from Paris and Berlin.

Further, Poland - a traditional cultural enemy of Ukraine - has become Ukraine’s chief backer and ally. A Polish-Ukrainian-Czech alliance would soon overshadow the lynchpin: France and Germany. Ukraine has astounding natural resources and on top of that, it was always the technological brain-trust of the USSR; their nuclear weapons and advanced systems were once made there. Their flagship - the Moskva- was built by Ukraine, and sunk by an advanced Ukrainian nuptune ASM.

Ukraine will become a member of the EU and NATO. Whether Russia breaks up in a civil war among rival oligarchs remains to be seen.

If that were true, Ukraine would not have become a primarily agrarian nation post-USSR breakup.

Without wishing to hurt the feeling of the world' top producer of pickled cucumbers, "Poland" and "economic power" has rarely been mentioned in the same sentence and it is not clear why it would, when Poland's products and services aren't entering or dominating new markets.

Ukraine has excellent software developers, engineers, and are leaders in many areas of technology and manufacturing such as aerospace and shipbuilding.

Leaders in what field? Please explain with numbers of market capitalization. Or maybe name one area of technology and manufacturing in which Ukraine is a world leader.

Pretty much anything good that the Soviet Union and Russian Federation ever designed and built came from Ukraine.

So why is Ukraine known as a primarily agrarian nation?

I mean name one Ukrainian non-agri export.

They are the market leader of exporting dead Russians. Although no one seems to be taking them; they are making lots of them to benefit the world.