Anonymous
Post 10/13/2021 11:15     Subject: Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think Sonya Larson is not only a bad art friend, but a bad artist. I write in the literary genre, and I've been in the position of helping to select works for honors equivalent to BASS. Larson's story demonstrates she is not curious enough to be a good artist; she assigns a facile motive to her kidney donor. Larson's story demonstrates she is not precise enough to be a good artist; every detail of the donation was transparently unresearched. Larson's story demonstrates she does not have the empathy to be a good artist; the characters of the two women are only superficially explored. Larson's story demonstrates she does not have the creativity to be a good artist; the story is structured in a derivative manner, and there is not one iota of profundity, beauty, or mystery in the prose.

Why does she write? I've never understood "literary" writers who have so little feeling for language.


I had to reply just to thank you for this insight. I felt like I was missing everything, having first read all of these crazy pants defenses of The Story by, amongst others, Jennifer De Leon to the director of the Boston Book Festival. It’s a thin, poorly written story at absolute best.


Yes, thank you. I read it too and thought it was terrible, but I don't have the writing background to say why. Really useful post.
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2021 11:15     Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sorry to spam! Don't know how to embed tweets

https://mobile.twitter.com/philosipede/status/1448224322242236418


Wrong link smh

https://mobile.twitter.com/PMatzko/status/1448075901028143110


I appreciate your effort to get it right because that thread really spoke to me. He nails it. A quick summary because I think these points are so key:

1) Dawn is annoying to Sonya and others because she doesn't understand the social code of UMC writing circles. She doesn't know how to "humble brag" about her kidney donation in that way where you make sure everyone knows what you did but in a way that makes it seem like you don't want anyone to know (even though you obviously do). She is earnest and honest instead of calculating about the way she presents herself, and that comes off as grating. She can't code switch because the code is foreign to her and they don't teach this stuff at public schools in rural Iowa. You have to learn it from parents and peers. But the time Dawn is in this environment, her personality is what it is and it's too late for her to learn how to fit in with the cool kids.

and

2) When you are poor, your "good name" is sometimes the only currency you have. Which helps explain why Dawn's response to being humiliated in this way seems so overzealous. To Dawn, having the one thing she's ever done that she felt was uncomplicatedly good (the purest evidence of her worth as a person) ridiculed by people she admired was like having all her money stolen from the accounts, or being physically maimed. It tore right at her fundamental sense of self. You can argue she overreacted but if you don't understand the importance of reputation and social standing to someone from a poor background, that's a value judgement that ignores Dawn's values.


Yes, great thread about class and great points here.
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2021 11:14     Subject: Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:I can't help but think what fact(s) would have to be different for Ng to call out the actual plagiarism?

I'm horrified, but also deeply curious at the human behavior at play here.


She would have to go back in time and not be the person who was egging Larson on.
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2021 11:14     Subject: Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:Christopher Castellani is another horrible person.

Only he is not just an author but was the artistic director of GrubStreet.

Read the email he sent about how brilliant Celeste Ng is to have come up with DFD, and how it's not too late for Dawn to get a job at the post office or American Midway.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Joshua_Luna/status/1447370848072044546/photo/4



And in other email:

"My mission in life is going to be to exact revenge on this pestilence of a person"





He needs to resign if Grub Street wants to survive. His behavior was entirely unethical for someone in his role.

Also, any artistic director who thinks DFD is brilliant has such low standards that his judgment can't be trusted. Middle schoolers have higher standards for insults.
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2021 11:12     Subject: Bad Art Friend
I can't help but think what fact(s) would have to be different for Ng to call out the actual plagiarism?

I'm horrified, but also deeply curious at the human behavior at play here.
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2021 11:11     Subject: Bad Art Friend
I used to live in Boston. I have a friend who is a published novelist and poet, and he was somewhat obsessed with teaching/being a part of Grubb Street. He thought that his personal appearance was what was keeping them from accepting him, and I thought he was paranoid. But now I think maybe there was something to what he said.

Also, I took one class through Grubb Street in person, and it was lackluster. The teacher was not a published novelist "yet"; she was very young and it was her first year out of her MFA program. She wasn't very good (but she was cute and perky, so now I am wondering...).

I also paid for one of the Grubb Street staff to read my novel and give a report, and now I regret that. It took a lot of courage to show my book to someone, and I felt so vulnerable, wondering if the reader was going to show passages to other staff and laugh at me. Now I am guessing that this very well could have happened. (The reader I chose was not one of the people mentioned in this scandal).
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2021 11:09     Subject: Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:I think Sonya Larson is not only a bad art friend, but a bad artist. I write in the literary genre, and I've been in the position of helping to select works for honors equivalent to BASS. Larson's story demonstrates she is not curious enough to be a good artist; she assigns a facile motive to her kidney donor. Larson's story demonstrates she is not precise enough to be a good artist; every detail of the donation was transparently unresearched. Larson's story demonstrates she does not have the empathy to be a good artist; the characters of the two women are only superficially explored. Larson's story demonstrates she does not have the creativity to be a good artist; the story is structured in a derivative manner, and there is not one iota of profundity, beauty, or mystery in the prose.

Why does she write? I've never understood "literary" writers who have so little feeling for language.


I had to reply just to thank you for this insight. I felt like I was missing everything, having first read all of these crazy pants defenses of The Story by, amongst others, Jennifer De Leon to the director of the Boston Book Festival. It’s a thin, poorly written story at absolute best.
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2021 11:08     Subject: Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:The fact that they had reduced her to "DFD" speaks to how childish and invested in their cruelty they all were as grown ass adults!


And this assclown Christopher whoever thinks “DFD” is like, the height of witticisms, and is fawning over Ng having coined it. I know 8th graders that can come up with better shit than that.
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2021 11:04     Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sorry to spam! Don't know how to embed tweets

https://mobile.twitter.com/philosipede/status/1448224322242236418


Wrong link smh

https://mobile.twitter.com/PMatzko/status/1448075901028143110


I appreciate your effort to get it right because that thread really spoke to me. He nails it. A quick summary because I think these points are so key:

1) Dawn is annoying to Sonya and others because she doesn't understand the social code of UMC writing circles. She doesn't know how to "humble brag" about her kidney donation in that way where you make sure everyone knows what you did but in a way that makes it seem like you don't want anyone to know (even though you obviously do). She is earnest and honest instead of calculating about the way she presents herself, and that comes off as grating. She can't code switch because the code is foreign to her and they don't teach this stuff at public schools in rural Iowa. You have to learn it from parents and peers. But the time Dawn is in this environment, her personality is what it is and it's too late for her to learn how to fit in with the cool kids.

and

2) When you are poor, your "good name" is sometimes the only currency you have. Which helps explain why Dawn's response to being humiliated in this way seems so overzealous. To Dawn, having the one thing she's ever done that she felt was uncomplicatedly good (the purest evidence of her worth as a person) ridiculed by people she admired was like having all her money stolen from the accounts, or being physically maimed. It tore right at her fundamental sense of self. You can argue she overreacted but if you don't understand the importance of reputation and social standing to someone from a poor background, that's a value judgement that ignores Dawn's values.


This is incredibly insightful. The question of class permeates all of this, but the Chunky Monkeys cannot recognize it because it seems many base not only their sense of self but all of their work on questions focused around identity politics.

Datalounge has a couple of really interesting threads about this, and people there have pointed out that post-professional groups created after attaining MFAs, like most in the CMs, put extraordinary effort into networking because of the limited opportunities in big-deal publishing. That has to reach backwards and infect the work, and also assured that genuine talents who don’t fit into that because they don’t have the degree or the particular social affect will not only get nothing from such groups, but will be damaged by participating.
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2021 11:01     Subject: Bad Art Friend
The fact that they had reduced her to "DFD" speaks to how childish and invested in their cruelty they all were as grown ass adults!
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2021 10:52     Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sorry to spam! Don't know how to embed tweets

https://mobile.twitter.com/philosipede/status/1448224322242236418


Wrong link smh

https://mobile.twitter.com/PMatzko/status/1448075901028143110


I appreciate your effort to get it right because that thread really spoke to me. He nails it. A quick summary because I think these points are so key:

1) Dawn is annoying to Sonya and others because she doesn't understand the social code of UMC writing circles. She doesn't know how to "humble brag" about her kidney donation in that way where you make sure everyone knows what you did but in a way that makes it seem like you don't want anyone to know (even though you obviously do). She is earnest and honest instead of calculating about the way she presents herself, and that comes off as grating. She can't code switch because the code is foreign to her and they don't teach this stuff at public schools in rural Iowa. You have to learn it from parents and peers. But the time Dawn is in this environment, her personality is what it is and it's too late for her to learn how to fit in with the cool kids.

and

2) When you are poor, your "good name" is sometimes the only currency you have. Which helps explain why Dawn's response to being humiliated in this way seems so overzealous. To Dawn, having the one thing she's ever done that she felt was uncomplicatedly good (the purest evidence of her worth as a person) ridiculed by people she admired was like having all her money stolen from the accounts, or being physically maimed. It tore right at her fundamental sense of self. You can argue she overreacted but if you don't understand the importance of reputation and social standing to someone from a poor background, that's a value judgement that ignores Dawn's values.
shan1212
Post 10/13/2021 10:49     Subject: Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:We need to reach out to GrubStreet en masse and tell them this is not OK that they still have Sonya Larson, Allison Murphy, and Christopher Castellani still on their staff.

They need to be suspended until a thorough investigation is done.

https://grubstreet.org/contact-us/


Yeah, I was unimpressed by their "we are appalled by the disconnect between GrubStreet’s stated values and the alleged behavior by some that has come to light" statement. It sounds like this mysterious disconnect conjured itself. And their "executive board," which includes Jennifer De Leon, is in charge of deciding next steps?

They only have 26 people on staff, and three of them are Sonya Larson, Chris Castellani, and Alison Murphy. And then Celeste Ng is on their literary council.

I saw a really good point on Twitter . . . would you ever counsel a friend to shoot themselves in the foot this way? Especially Ng seems so sure that her name carries special protective powers or something. I'm sure Larson has such a laughable lawyer because she doesn't want to pay big bucks for a savvy one. It's fine to rally around someone in an interpersonal drama, but to encourage them to go down with the ship when it comes to lawyer's fees and then your professional reputation? What kind of friends are those? I really hate when people try to diagnose strangers, but that's what I would call the narcissism in this story . . . letting ego drive all your decisions and advice, rather than considering the costs even if you win.
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2021 10:42     Subject: Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:I don’t give a f*ck if you want to humblebrag a little bit on FB — a platform in which literally everybody who uses it humblebrags — about giving up your kidney. THIS WOMAN SAVED A LIFE and people are more concerned that she’s cringe.

I am not exaggerating, this is incredibly damaging for anyone and everyone who has or will ever need a kidney. There are 100,000 people in this country waiting for a kidney donation — but no, making fun of the awkward cringe person is more important. These people have blood on their hands. I hope the National Kidney Foundation issues a statement.


Me too! I hope they come out swinging!
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2021 10:36     Subject: Bad Art Friend
We need to reach out to GrubStreet en masse and tell them this is not OK that they still have Sonya Larson, Allison Murphy, and Christopher Castellani still on their staff.

They need to be suspended until a thorough investigation is done.

https://grubstreet.org/contact-us/
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2021 10:34     Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:Sorry to spam! Don't know how to embed tweets

https://mobile.twitter.com/philosipede/status/1448224322242236418


Wrong link smh

https://mobile.twitter.com/PMatzko/status/1448075901028143110