Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Large rosters aren't anti-development. They're a realistic approximation of college and pro rosters. Spirit's pro team has 23 players. UNC has 29 players. What you mean to say is that you're pissed not all kids on a roster are able to earn playing minutes, and that as a result of not playing games they aren't developing. That's crap. That challenge will come with any good team. You've got to earn a spot on the team and then earn a spot on the field. Most development doesn't happen during games anyway, it comes from practicing against other good kids on your own team, with the benefit of good coaching.

Not trying to be argumentative, but one frequently hears pundits talk about young professional players and how they need to be on a team where they will get regular, first-team minutes in games in order to properly develop. Think about all the ink spilled on players like Pulisic, McKennie, Adams, Sargent and others, and whether they made the correct decision to go overseas vs. picking a different option in the US. Or all of the ink spilled about the failure of MLS teams to play young players, and how that is hurting their development.

Are these statements incorrect about young pro players needing playing time in order to develop? Or is a high school kid somehow different, and they don't need to play games in order to develop?

It just seems like a contradiction for playing time to be important for 18-21 year olds, but not important for 14-17 year olds.

Are you suggesting that Spirit has generational talent on their rosters that they are sitting?

Anonymous wrote:Large rosters aren't anti-development. They're a realistic approximation of college and pro rosters. Spirit's pro team has 23 players. UNC has 29 players. What you mean to say is that you're pissed not all kids on a roster are able to earn playing minutes, and that as a result of not playing games they aren't developing. That's crap. That challenge will come with any good team. You've got to earn a spot on the team and then earn a spot on the field. Most development doesn't happen during games anyway, it comes from practicing against other good kids on your own team, with the benefit of good coaching.

Not trying to be argumentative, but one frequently hears pundits talk about young professional players and how they need to be on a team where they will get regular, first-team minutes in games in order to properly develop. Think about all the ink spilled on players like Pulisic, McKennie, Adams, Sargent and others, and whether they made the correct decision to go overseas vs. picking a different option in the US. Or all of the ink spilled about the failure of MLS teams to play young players, and how that is hurting their development.

Are these statements incorrect about young pro players needing playing time in order to develop? Or is a high school kid somehow different, and they don't need to play games in order to develop?

It just seems like a contradiction for playing time to be important for 18-21 year olds, but not important for 14-17 year olds.

Anonymous wrote:Large rosters aren't anti-development. They're a realistic approximation of college and pro rosters. Spirit's pro team has 23 players. UNC has 29 players. What you mean to say is that you're pissed not all kids on a roster are able to earn playing minutes, and that as a result of not playing games they aren't developing. That's crap. That challenge will come with any good team. You've got to earn a spot on the team and then earn a spot on the field. Most development doesn't happen during games anyway, it comes from practicing against other good kids on your own team, with the benefit of good coaching.

Youth teams are not = college and pro teams. College and pro teams should be about winning - period. Youth teams should be about development - period. That's why it's called the "development" academy.

Yes, practices are more important than games, but that doesn't mean games don't matter. They are still an important part of development. If clubs are not giving player's the chance to get significant minutes in games on a regular basis, then they simply don't care that much about that player's development. Those players are only there to provide depth, practice fodder, and $$.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Large rosters aren't anti-development. They're a realistic approximation of college and pro rosters. Spirit's pro team has 23 players. UNC has 29 players. What you mean to say is that you're pissed not all kids on a roster are able to earn playing minutes, and that as a result of not playing games they aren't developing. That's crap. That challenge will come with any good team. You've got to earn a spot on the team and then earn a spot on the field. Most development doesn't happen during games anyway, it comes from practicing against other good kids on your own team, with the benefit of good coaching.

Statements such as this is based on emotion and not fact.

This statement in particular is overly emotional causing it to sound ignorant.

Perhaps the statement of 28 players on the 04 DA roster should also be based on fact and not emotion as well?

Anonymous wrote:Large rosters aren't anti-development. They're a realistic approximation of college and pro rosters. Spirit's pro team has 23 players. UNC has 29 players. What you mean to say is that you're pissed not all kids on a roster are able to earn playing minutes, and that as a result of not playing games they aren't developing. That's crap. That challenge will come with any good team. You've got to earn a spot on the team and then earn a spot on the field. Most development doesn't happen during games anyway, it comes from practicing against other good kids on your own team, with the benefit of good coaching.

Statements such as this is based on emotion and not fact.

This statement in particular is overly emotional causing it to sound ignorant.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A few things..... DA rules don’t allow for bloated rosters, there are upper limits. Second, an attack on DA for being anti-development has no place in this thread. Feel free to start that topic (again, as nauseum, ad infinitum), but the discussion doesnt belong here. Finally, demeaning the talent at a club isn’t very classy. There are plenty of talented kids at Spirit who chose that environment for the coaching and atmosphere. For every talented kid who has a “better option” there is one who was bumped out of the “better option” club for another talented flavor of the day. Over and over. That doesn’t spawn development, what it spawns is nastiness and rancor. I’d prefer a healthy environment with uneven talent to that any time. To each his own

The upper limits of the DA rules allow for bloated rosters. If you have more players on your team roster than you can have on a gameday roster, the team has a bloated roster.

Not a rule, but DA guidelines for some agegroups say that every single FT player on the roster should play at least 50% of the available game minutes each month. Does WS abide by that?

Agreee that WS roster sizes are too large. The 04 team has 28 on it! 28 is a ridiculous number!! The 05 team has 21- 20 of whom are consistent 05 players. That, too is ridiculous- especially when you can argue that no less than 8 of those players have no business being on a DA roster. WS should drop rosters to no more than 18 and let all players be rostered in all games.

Where is this 28 roster number coming from. That is not the number listed on US Soccer's roster.

The "EDP" group trains alongside the DA group + have at least one 05 playing up whose rostered with the 05s but is in reality on the 04 team. So for practices at least, every single practice features 28 players. Some of those EDP players have played in EDP games.

28 kids at practice! Oh the scandal! So FCV does not have DP players attend DA practices pushing those numbers higher than the stated roster?

SMH

Large rosters aren't anti-development. They're a realistic approximation of college and pro rosters. Spirit's pro team has 23 players. UNC has 29 players. What you mean to say is that you're pissed not all kids on a roster are able to earn playing minutes, and that as a result of not playing games they aren't developing. That's crap. That challenge will come with any good team. You've got to earn a spot on the team and then earn a spot on the field. Most development doesn't happen during games anyway, it comes from practicing against other good kids on your own team, with the benefit of good coaching.

^have played in DA games.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A few things..... DA rules don’t allow for bloated rosters, there are upper limits. Second, an attack on DA for being anti-development has no place in this thread. Feel free to start that topic (again, as nauseum, ad infinitum), but the discussion doesnt belong here. Finally, demeaning the talent at a club isn’t very classy. There are plenty of talented kids at Spirit who chose that environment for the coaching and atmosphere. For every talented kid who has a “better option” there is one who was bumped out of the “better option” club for another talented flavor of the day. Over and over. That doesn’t spawn development, what it spawns is nastiness and rancor. I’d prefer a healthy environment with uneven talent to that any time. To each his own

The upper limits of the DA rules allow for bloated rosters. If you have more players on your team roster than you can have on a gameday roster, the team has a bloated roster.

Not a rule, but DA guidelines for some agegroups say that every single FT player on the roster should play at least 50% of the available game minutes each month. Does WS abide by that?

Agreee that WS roster sizes are too large. The 04 team has 28 on it! 28 is a ridiculous number!! The 05 team has 21- 20 of whom are consistent 05 players. That, too is ridiculous- especially when you can argue that no less than 8 of those players have no business being on a DA roster. WS should drop rosters to no more than 18 and let all players be rostered in all games.

Where is this 28 roster number coming from. That is not the number listed on US Soccer's roster.

The "EDP" group trains alongside the DA group + have at least one 05 playing up whose rostered with the 05s but is in reality on the 04 team. So for practices at least, every single practice features 28 players. Some of those EDP players have played in EDP games.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A few things..... DA rules don’t allow for bloated rosters, there are upper limits. Second, an attack on DA for being anti-development has no place in this thread. Feel free to start that topic (again, as nauseum, ad infinitum), but the discussion doesnt belong here. Finally, demeaning the talent at a club isn’t very classy. There are plenty of talented kids at Spirit who chose that environment for the coaching and atmosphere. For every talented kid who has a “better option” there is one who was bumped out of the “better option” club for another talented flavor of the day. Over and over. That doesn’t spawn development, what it spawns is nastiness and rancor. I’d prefer a healthy environment with uneven talent to that any time. To each his own

The upper limits of the DA rules allow for bloated rosters. If you have more players on your team roster than you can have on a gameday roster, the team has a bloated roster.

Not a rule, but DA guidelines for some agegroups say that every single FT player on the roster should play at least 50% of the available game minutes each month. Does WS abide by that?

Agreee that WS roster sizes are too large. The 04 team has 28 on it! 28 is a ridiculous number!! The 05 team has 21- 20 of whom are consistent 05 players. That, too is ridiculous- especially when you can argue that no less than 8 of those players have no business being on a DA roster. WS should drop rosters to no more than 18 and let all players be rostered in all games.

Where is this 28 roster number coming from. That is not the number listed on US Soccer's roster.

Different posters so different comments. Some say they lack talent; others say their talent is being lost in the shuffle of bloated rosters that include players who shouldn't be in the DA or who shouldn't be playing up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More selective rosters will probably happen next year as Spirit adds more coaches and beefs up the DA as they stated they were going to do. Let’s see how the ID sessions go and who turns up before everyone just writes them off. U13 (2006) is really the only group that needs a talent influx-05 and up are doing pretty well and will be contributing to improve.

Just wow. The 05, 04 and 03 teams ALL needs major talent influx. To say otherwise is completely delusional.

This influx argument is counter to 2 pages subsequent to cut roster at the bottom 1/3 - 1/4. So which is it? Revenue argument aside.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ Everyone knows ARL cares more about winning games then development.

LMAO at the Arlington comment. Same with FCV. The roster sizes are almost identical across options, and consistent with other DAs across the division and country.

This is why you were called a troll. You're simply looking to pick on Spirit, and this isn't the first example of a poster doing that here. Maybe you're all the same troll.

Arlington 04s roster 16 kids almost ever game. Those 16 play the majority of the minutes. They have identified those 16 as the ones they want to develop for now. What's wrong with that? I'm not saying they are the best. I'm saying they have identified their drop off and drew a line. Nothing wrong with trying to be competetive...and wanting to win doesnt mean being anti-development. Soccer people drive me nuts with this.

But again, you're anti-Arlington so I'm a troll.

Great post, and yes, large rosters are anti-development.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A few things..... DA rules don’t allow for bloated rosters, there are upper limits. Second, an attack on DA for being anti-development has no place in this thread. Feel free to start that topic (again, as nauseum, ad infinitum), but the discussion doesnt belong here. Finally, demeaning the talent at a club isn’t very classy. There are plenty of talented kids at Spirit who chose that environment for the coaching and atmosphere. For every talented kid who has a “better option” there is one who was bumped out of the “better option” club for another talented flavor of the day. Over and over. That doesn’t spawn development, what it spawns is nastiness and rancor. I’d prefer a healthy environment with uneven talent to that any time. To each his own

The upper limits of the DA rules allow for bloated rosters. If you have more players on your team roster than you can have on a gameday roster, the team has a bloated roster.

Not a rule, but DA guidelines for some agegroups say that every single FT player on the roster should play at least 50% of the available game minutes each month. Does WS abide by that?

Agreee that WS roster sizes are too large. The 04 team has 28 on it! 28 is a ridiculous number!! The 05 team has 21- 20 of whom are consistent 05 players. That, too is ridiculous- especially when you can argue that no less than 8 of those players have no business being on a DA roster. WS should drop rosters to no more than 18 and let all players be rostered in all games.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A few things..... DA rules don’t allow for bloated rosters, there are upper limits. Second, an attack on DA for being anti-development has no place in this thread. Feel free to start that topic (again, as nauseum, ad infinitum), but the discussion doesnt belong here. Finally, demeaning the talent at a club isn’t very classy. There are plenty of talented kids at Spirit who chose that environment for the coaching and atmosphere. For every talented kid who has a “better option” there is one who was bumped out of the “better option” club for another talented flavor of the day. Over and over. That doesn’t spawn development, what it spawns is nastiness and rancor. I’d prefer a healthy environment with uneven talent to that any time. To each his own

The upper limits of the DA rules allow for bloated rosters. If you have more players on your team roster than you can have on a gameday roster, the team has a bloated roster.

Not a rule, but DA guidelines for some agegroups say that every single FT player on the roster should play at least 50% of the available game minutes each month. Does WS abide by that?

Playing time stats are available on the US Soccer website. If you have evidence that WS is breaking the playing rules, please by all means contact Torres and US Soccer.

Ignorant response.

The 50% PT is a guideline, not a rule. So even if they "violated" it, there would be nothing to report.

I said nothing about whether I thought they were or were not following the guideline. I simply asked a question.

PT stats are not available for U14, and U13 game reports are not even listed online. Even for U15 and above, it can be hard to track because they do move players up and down quite a bit, so just because a player is listed as "not rostered" doesn't mean she didn't play that weekend. She might have played up a year. From the outside, I would also have no way of knowing whether a player was left out due to injury or illness as opposed to just being left out.

I figured WS parents would have a pretty good idea though.

If the answer to that question is yes, they do make sure everyone plays at least 50% of the minutes each month, that would take some of the air out of the criticisms about the bloated rosters, wouldn't it?