Anonymous wrote:Maybe start a new petition to recall on different grounds. That’s the thing with these School Board members. It’s not like they just mess up once.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My reference to her "puppet masters" at MHS is as follows - she promised mcspaces and her predecessor a boundary change. She started down that road with mhs parents and mcspaces supporting her efforts. It was great - she was pushing it through and everyone was happy. Then the pandemic delayed things. But mhs parents and the most vocal in mcspaces pushed her to reenergize the boundary effort despite the many factors I listed in an earlier post above, to include the lie that a boundary had to happen before a reno. It was a lie. She did that. They unquestioningly accepted her ludicrous logic. She was doing what they wanted. Everyone was once again happy.

All of a sudden, mhs parents and mcspaces realized that mhs was going to lose too many kids due to pandemic-related lower enrollment, the TJ debacle, and the boundary. All of a sudden they wanted her to stop, rethink this, pull back. Otherwise if mhs loses too many kids, mhs loses classes and teachers. So mhs and mcspaces all of a sudden tried to slow her down. but no, she kept going. At that point, her gullible cheerleaders aka mhs parents and mcspaces should have realized that she was actually helping her (not-so-)Great Falls fanatics with a meaningless boundary change of single family homes, saving (not-so-)great falls from having to take in multi-family dwellings <gasp>.

And your comment about having hindsight now - well, it was obvious to anyone who questioned her logic during the process that she was full of double-talk. She changed her message depending on the audience. I along with others, highlighted her hypocrisy at the time - no one at mhs wanted to listen.

So yes, her puppet masters at mhs got duped. she made fools of them, and us all. As you pointed out, she has alienated everyone at this point, except those mhs parents and mcspaces who dont want to admit they got fooled. Even if she gets a bond for mhs, the damage is done. She is done.

Neither McSpaces nor other McLean parents were asking for anything unreasonable: (1) relief from the overcrowding that had led to 20 trailers, overcrowded hallways, and articles in newspapers (The Guardian) citing McLean's facilities as a poster child for the neglect of public school buildings in Virginia; and (2) a permanent addition at MHS similar to what FCPS had built or committed to build at several other high schools (South Lakes, Justice, Madison, West Potomac) outside the normal renovation cycle.

I guess you think that, rather than trying to advocate constructively, they should have stomped their feet, yelled louder, and insisted on an addition right away? Unfortunately, that's what FCPS had promised the school in 2015, only for Facilities to yank it away and expand Langley during its renovation to 2370 seats even though LHS only had an enrollment of around 1900. Once that decision was made, both Strauss and then Tholen said a boundary change would have to happen before any addition was considered at McLean. Tholen did promise before Covid that she'd do both - work on a boundary change and get McLean promptly slated in the next CIP for a future addition. Then, once in office: she (1) pushed through a boundary change during a pandemic, even when FCPS had lost any ability to project future enrollments and people were begging her to pause; (2) turned the need for "equity" and "transparency" that her colleagues had used for years to delay a boundary change on its head by waiting until the last minute to push through the change she wanted that the public had never heard was her preferred approach and was anything but "equity-based"; and (3) did nothing to get McLean in the pipeline for a permanent addition.

So if they were all dupes, it was because FCPS already had them flat on their backs. It's not like there were great alternatives in the 2019 campaign, as the other two Dranesville candidates were also from the Langley HS district and motivated to run primarily by their desire to protect Langley's boundaries from any changes that might ever put Great Falls at risk of getting moved to Herndon. Had Karloutsis been elected, she would have faced opposition from the Democratic majority on the board. Had Mobasheri been elected, he would have tilted at windmills trying to get a brand-new secondary school costing far more built in Tysons. Tholen likely seemed like the best of the three options; arguably, she turned out to be the worst. It's telling that the McSpaces group that had pushed for relief (yes, a boundary change PLUS getting in the queue for an addition) never once acknowledged or thanked Tholen for the change she rammed through. They appear to have disbanded in disgust, perhaps now lying in wait to see if she's planning to bow out or run again.

I agree with everything you said. I supported a boundary change, but just wanted it done right and in a meaningful way. Instead she fanned the flames of division among the mhs "community," manipulated the process, maneuvered around everyone, delivered a meaningless boundary change, and moved on leaving many kids behind and an overcrowded school.

The only thing I disagree with you on is your comment that she was arguably the worst of all options.

She was and continues to be, in fact, the absolute worst.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My reference to her "puppet masters" at MHS is as follows - she promised mcspaces and her predecessor a boundary change. She started down that road with mhs parents and mcspaces supporting her efforts. It was great - she was pushing it through and everyone was happy. Then the pandemic delayed things. But mhs parents and the most vocal in mcspaces pushed her to reenergize the boundary effort despite the many factors I listed in an earlier post above, to include the lie that a boundary had to happen before a reno. It was a lie. She did that. They unquestioningly accepted her ludicrous logic. She was doing what they wanted. Everyone was once again happy.

All of a sudden, mhs parents and mcspaces realized that mhs was going to lose too many kids due to pandemic-related lower enrollment, the TJ debacle, and the boundary. All of a sudden they wanted her to stop, rethink this, pull back. Otherwise if mhs loses too many kids, mhs loses classes and teachers. So mhs and mcspaces all of a sudden tried to slow her down. but no, she kept going. At that point, her gullible cheerleaders aka mhs parents and mcspaces should have realized that she was actually helping her (not-so-)Great Falls fanatics with a meaningless boundary change of single family homes, saving (not-so-)great falls from having to take in multi-family dwellings <gasp>.

And your comment about having hindsight now - well, it was obvious to anyone who questioned her logic during the process that she was full of double-talk. She changed her message depending on the audience. I along with others, highlighted her hypocrisy at the time - no one at mhs wanted to listen.

So yes, her puppet masters at mhs got duped. she made fools of them, and us all. As you pointed out, she has alienated everyone at this point, except those mhs parents and mcspaces who dont want to admit they got fooled. Even if she gets a bond for mhs, the damage is done. She is done.

Neither McSpaces nor other McLean parents were asking for anything unreasonable: (1) relief from the overcrowding that had led to 20 trailers, overcrowded hallways, and articles in newspapers (The Guardian) citing McLean's facilities as a poster child for the neglect of public school buildings in Virginia; and (2) a permanent addition at MHS similar to what FCPS had built or committed to build at several other high schools (South Lakes, Justice, Madison, West Potomac) outside the normal renovation cycle.

I guess you think that, rather than trying to advocate constructively, they should have stomped their feet, yelled louder, and insisted on an addition right away? Unfortunately, that's what FCPS had promised the school in 2015, only for Facilities to yank it away and expand Langley during its renovation to 2370 seats even though LHS only had an enrollment of around 1900. Once that decision was made, both Strauss and then Tholen said a boundary change would have to happen before any addition was considered at McLean. Tholen did promise before Covid that she'd do both - work on a boundary change and get McLean promptly slated in the next CIP for a future addition. Then, once in office: she (1) pushed through a boundary change during a pandemic, even when FCPS had lost any ability to project future enrollments and people were begging her to pause; (2) turned the need for "equity" and "transparency" that her colleagues had used for years to delay a boundary change on its head by waiting until the last minute to push through the change she wanted that the public had never heard was her preferred approach and was anything but "equity-based"; and (3) did nothing to get McLean in the pipeline for a permanent addition.

So if they were all dupes, it was because FCPS already had them flat on their backs. It's not like there were great alternatives in the 2019 campaign, as the other two Dranesville candidates were also from the Langley HS district and motivated to run primarily by their desire to protect Langley's boundaries from any changes that might ever put Great Falls at risk of getting moved to Herndon. Had Karloutsis been elected, she would have faced opposition from the Democratic majority on the board. Had Mobasheri been elected, he would have tilted at windmills trying to get a brand-new secondary school costing far more built in Tysons. Tholen likely seemed like the best of the three options; arguably, she turned out to be the worst. It's telling that the McSpaces group that had pushed for relief (yes, a boundary change PLUS getting in the queue for an addition) never once acknowledged or thanked Tholen for the change she rammed through. They appear to have disbanded in disgust, perhaps now lying in wait to see if she's planning to bow out or run again.

Anonymous wrote:

My reference to her "puppet masters" at MHS is as follows - she promised mcspaces and her predecessor a boundary change. She started down that road with mhs parents and mcspaces supporting her efforts. It was great - she was pushing it through and everyone was happy. Then the pandemic delayed things. But mhs parents and the most vocal in mcspaces pushed her to reenergize the boundary effort despite the many factors I listed in an earlier post above, to include the lie that a boundary had to happen before a reno. It was a lie. She did that. They unquestioningly accepted her ludicrous logic. She was doing what they wanted. Everyone was once again happy.

All of a sudden, mhs parents and mcspaces realized that mhs was going to lose too many kids due to pandemic-related lower enrollment, the TJ debacle, and the boundary. All of a sudden they wanted her to stop, rethink this, pull back. Otherwise if mhs loses too many kids, mhs loses classes and teachers. So mhs and mcspaces all of a sudden tried to slow her down. but no, she kept going. At that point, her gullible cheerleaders aka mhs parents and mcspaces should have realized that she was actually helping her (not-so-)Great Falls fanatics with a meaningless boundary change of single family homes, saving (not-so-)great falls from having to take in multi-family dwellings <gasp>.

And your comment about having hindsight now - well, it was obvious to anyone who questioned her logic during the process that she was full of double-talk. She changed her message depending on the audience. I along with others, highlighted her hypocrisy at the time - no one at mhs wanted to listen.

So yes, her puppet masters at mhs got duped. she made fools of them, and us all. As you pointed out, she has alienated everyone at this point, except those mhs parents and mcspaces who dont want to admit they got fooled. Even if she gets a bond for mhs, the damage is done. She is done.

Anonymous wrote:19:19 - there’s a lot packed in your post, but I assume you also have the benefit of hindsight like many others.

And Tholen’s “puppet masters” weren’t really at MHS; they were her Great Falls neighbors who wanted a “one-and-done,” limited impact MHS/LHS boundary change that would minimize the risk of their ever getting moved to Herndon, the fear that drove them to create the One Great Falls/Voices of Fairfax group in 2019. And that’s exactly what she delivered.

Either way she doesn’t seem to have a lot of strong supporters left. The Great Falls folks she looked after with the boundary were among the most active in seeking her recall for the Covid-related school closings. She might regain some support if she gets a permanent addition for MHS included in the next CIP, but her time is running out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bloodlust of this subset of Dranesville folks who didn’t get their way is scary. I think she’s doing a fine job during really bad times. Not just the pandemic but the radicalization of some in the community.

She seems kind and like she totally does the work. I disagreed with her TJ vote and I think more should have been done to help the McLean overcrowding but I don’t always get what I want. And I watched how some in the McLean community came after her about the boundary and it was scary.

So easy for you to say, since it sounds like it did not negatively impact your child. If everyone in Dranesville watched her lying, flip-flopping, double talk, and manipulation on the boundary, she would get zero votes in 2023.

What's worse, MHS is at 100% capacity with the new, temporary building, so it did not need a boundary change. AND the boundary change only moves about 140 kids/year over three years. According to FCPS numbers, this does NOT change MHS capacity at all - ZERO change. So the boundary change did nothing to address capacity at MHS AND she did not get MHS a bond on the most recent CIP, so no reno coming. Failure after failure after failure. And this is only on one issue.

Actually, she has fixed the capacity issue - at least temporarily. Mclean was projected to be at 123% of capacity over the next 5 years prior to the boundary change and modular. And she eliminated a split feeder at Colvin run, which is something Janie Strauss had been promising for years. The school board did not follow gatehouse recommendations, but they did follow the community committee recommendations on the boundary change. Which one do you think did more actual research? Yep - the unpaid community committee.

She has failed in multiple other ways, along with the rest of the board. Schools online for a year, focusing on admissions of one school and renaming schools while school buildings were shuttered. Crazy surveys and expensive studies.

Please - get your facts straight. Your post is a great example of how people conflate issues. After the modular building, MHS was at roughly 100% capacity (+/- less than 1%). This was BEFORE the boundary change. This is according to FCPS numbers.

There was no school in all of FCPS that was at 100% that was also subject to a boundary change. 100% capacity does not necessitate a boundary change. BUT tholen had to do the bidding of her puppet masters at mclean and flip-flopped at the last second, literally the morning of the vote, to overrule the staff's recommendation, and go with a boundary change that has ZERO impact on capacity. She created a new split feeder for one year at Longfellow, as 7th graders at the time will now go through a second split feeder, separating from 99% of the Longfellow class in high school. Some might say that these kids were sacrificed so that we could reduce capacity at MHS, except this change makes ZERO difference in terms of capacity. It was a hollow and meaningless change intended only to make good on campaign promises tholen made to mclean parents, while disrupting the experience of other kids for no reason.

These are facts - the percentage at MHS is from FCPS. Look it up. Do the math on the number of kids who will move from MHS to LHS and divide by total population at MHS using FCPS stats - it does not change the capacity number. Use FCPS numbers and you will see what a total failure tholen is on this issue. Never mind all of her other follies.

Ill add that I did not talk to anyone who was opposed to a boundary change. LHS is a great school. It was just a matter of making the change in a way that did not leave kids behind, and that actually had impact on MHS capacity. tholen failed on both.

It is long past time for tholen to go.

I looked at the math.

Agree McLean was under 100% capacity when the boundary change was made, but that's only if you treat the cheap modular classrooms (which FCPS treated as adding 350 seats) the same as permanent seats. Exclude the second-hand modular, and they were still projecting McLean would be over 10% over-capacity even with the boundary change.

Also, FCPS was projecting that the boundary change would move 8% of McLean's students to Langley once fully phased-in. They did not factor into account the additional kids McLean would pick up from Longfellow due to the TJ admissions change. I'd guess that would add another 3% or so back.

Elaine was more responsive to the desires of those wanting to cap the number of kids moved to Langley than to those you call her "puppet masters at mclean." Some people at McLean supported a boundary change only after they were told there would have to be a boundary change before any permanent addition was built, and even then many suggested putting it on hold once enrollments started to fluctuate last year in response to Covid-19. Instead, Elaine pushed through the boundary change, yet continues to do nothing to get funds budgeted for a future addition.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does this thread keep getting resurrected?

Because we are done with Elaine. This thread may close, another may open, but we will not retire this issue until we retire her at the ballot box.

Also because the case is not closed. The plaintiffs filed a motion to reconsider based on new evidence about the prosecuting attorney who decided not to prosecute.

Any update on this motion?? Next steps??

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bloodlust of this subset of Dranesville folks who didn’t get their way is scary. I think she’s doing a fine job during really bad times. Not just the pandemic but the radicalization of some in the community.

She seems kind and like she totally does the work. I disagreed with her TJ vote and I think more should have been done to help the McLean overcrowding but I don’t always get what I want. And I watched how some in the McLean community came after her about the boundary and it was scary.

So easy for you to say, since it sounds like it did not negatively impact your child. If everyone in Dranesville watched her lying, flip-flopping, double talk, and manipulation on the boundary, she would get zero votes in 2023.

What's worse, MHS is at 100% capacity with the new, temporary building, so it did not need a boundary change. AND the boundary change only moves about 140 kids/year over three years. According to FCPS numbers, this does NOT change MHS capacity at all - ZERO change. So the boundary change did nothing to address capacity at MHS AND she did not get MHS a bond on the most recent CIP, so no reno coming. Failure after failure after failure. And this is only on one issue.

Actually, she has fixed the capacity issue - at least temporarily. Mclean was projected to be at 123% of capacity over the next 5 years prior to the boundary change and modular. And she eliminated a split feeder at Colvin run, which is something Janie Strauss had been promising for years. The school board did not follow gatehouse recommendations, but they did follow the community committee recommendations on the boundary change. Which one do you think did more actual research? Yep - the unpaid community committee.

She has failed in multiple other ways, along with the rest of the board. Schools online for a year, focusing on admissions of one school and renaming schools while school buildings were shuttered. Crazy surveys and expensive studies.

Please - get your facts straight. Your post is a great example of how people conflate issues. After the modular building, MHS was at roughly 100% capacity (+/- less than 1%). This was BEFORE the boundary change. This is according to FCPS numbers.

There was no school in all of FCPS that was at 100% that was also subject to a boundary change. 100% capacity does not necessitate a boundary change. BUT tholen had to do the bidding of her puppet masters at mclean and flip-flopped at the last second, literally the morning of the vote, to overrule the staff's recommendation, and go with a boundary change that has ZERO impact on capacity. She created a new split feeder for one year at Longfellow, as 7th graders at the time will now go through a second split feeder, separating from 99% of the Longfellow class in high school. Some might say that these kids were sacrificed so that we could reduce capacity at MHS, except this change makes ZERO difference in terms of capacity. It was a hollow and meaningless change intended only to make good on campaign promises tholen made to mclean parents, while disrupting the experience of other kids for no reason.

These are facts - the percentage at MHS is from FCPS. Look it up. Do the math on the number of kids who will move from MHS to LHS and divide by total population at MHS using FCPS stats - it does not change the capacity number. Use FCPS numbers and you will see what a total failure tholen is on this issue. Never mind all of her other follies.

Ill add that I did not talk to anyone who was opposed to a boundary change. LHS is a great school. It was just a matter of making the change in a way that did not leave kids behind, and that actually had impact on MHS capacity. tholen failed on both.

It is long past time for tholen to go.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bloodlust of this subset of Dranesville folks who didn’t get their way is scary. I think she’s doing a fine job during really bad times. Not just the pandemic but the radicalization of some in the community.

She seems kind and like she totally does the work. I disagreed with her TJ vote and I think more should have been done to help the McLean overcrowding but I don’t always get what I want. And I watched how some in the McLean community came after her about the boundary and it was scary.

So easy for you to say, since it sounds like it did not negatively impact your child. If everyone in Dranesville watched her lying, flip-flopping, double talk, and manipulation on the boundary, she would get zero votes in 2023.

What's worse, MHS is at 100% capacity with the new, temporary building, so it did not need a boundary change. AND the boundary change only moves about 140 kids/year over three years. According to FCPS numbers, this does NOT change MHS capacity at all - ZERO change. So the boundary change did nothing to address capacity at MHS AND she did not get MHS a bond on the most recent CIP, so no reno coming. Failure after failure after failure. And this is only on one issue.

Actually, she has fixed the capacity issue - at least temporarily. Mclean was projected to be at 123% of capacity over the next 5 years prior to the boundary change and modular. And she eliminated a split feeder at Colvin run, which is something Janie Strauss had been promising for years. The school board did not follow gatehouse recommendations, but they did follow the community committee recommendations on the boundary change. Which one do you think did more actual research? Yep - the unpaid community committee.

She has failed in multiple other ways, along with the rest of the board. Schools online for a year, focusing on admissions of one school and renaming schools while school buildings were shuttered. Crazy surveys and expensive studies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bloodlust of this subset of Dranesville folks who didn’t get their way is scary. I think she’s doing a fine job during really bad times. Not just the pandemic but the radicalization of some in the community.

She seems kind and like she totally does the work. I disagreed with her TJ vote and I think more should have been done to help the McLean overcrowding but I don’t always get what I want. And I watched how some in the McLean community came after her about the boundary and it was scary.

So easy for you to say, since it sounds like it did not negatively impact your child. If everyone in Dranesville watched her lying, flip-flopping, double talk, and manipulation on the boundary, she would get zero votes in 2023.

What's worse, MHS is at 100% capacity with the new, temporary building, so it did not need a boundary change. AND the boundary change only moves about 140 kids/year over three years. According to FCPS numbers, this does NOT change MHS capacity at all - ZERO change. So the boundary change did nothing to address capacity at MHS AND she did not get MHS a bond on the most recent CIP, so no reno coming. Failure after failure after failure. And this is only on one issue.

Actually, she has fixed the capacity issue - at least temporarily. Mclean was projected to be at 123% of capacity over the next 5 years prior to the boundary change and modular. And she eliminated a split feeder at Colvin run, which is something Janie Strauss had been promising for years. The school board did not follow gatehouse recommendations, but they did follow the community committee recommendations on the boundary change. Which one do you think did more actual research? Yep - the unpaid community committee.

She has failed in multiple other ways, along with the rest of the board. Schools online for a year, focusing on admissions of one school and renaming schools while school buildings were shuttered. Crazy surveys and expensive studies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bloodlust of this subset of Dranesville folks who didn’t get their way is scary. I think she’s doing a fine job during really bad times. Not just the pandemic but the radicalization of some in the community.

She seems kind and like she totally does the work. I disagreed with her TJ vote and I think more should have been done to help the McLean overcrowding but I don’t always get what I want. And I watched how some in the McLean community came after her about the boundary and it was scary.

So easy for you to say, since it sounds like it did not negatively impact your child. If everyone in Dranesville watched her lying, flip-flopping, double talk, and manipulation on the boundary, she would get zero votes in 2023.

What's worse, MHS is at 100% capacity with the new, temporary building, so it did not need a boundary change. AND the boundary change only moves about 140 kids/year over three years. According to FCPS numbers, this does NOT change MHS capacity at all - ZERO change. So the boundary change did nothing to address capacity at MHS AND she did not get MHS a bond on the most recent CIP, so no reno coming. Failure after failure after failure. And this is only on one issue.