Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ezra Klein just said in his latest podcast…

The worst thing Israeli advocates can do is tie anti-Zionism to anti-semitism because it will drive many to say “fine, I’m the latter then”

Ezra is Jewish and a Zionist himself

I agree. I as a nonjew living amongst thousands of jews, am having a difficult time deciphering why the jews I personally know consider these terms synonymous. The definition of antisemitism is hatred of jews, but then I question that not all jews are Semitic so therefore not all anti Judaism is antisemitism with the latter being more damaging and racist. Antizionism means that you don’t believe jews should have a homeland, but again if a jew is an Ivanka Trump, I may not agree with zionism.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ezra Klein just said in his latest podcast…

The worst thing Israeli advocates can do is tie anti-Zionism to anti-semitism because it will drive many to say “fine, I’m the latter then”

Ezra is Jewish and a Zionist himself

I agree. I as a nonjew living amongst thousands of jews, am having a difficult time deciphering why the jews I personally know consider these terms synonymous. The definition of antisemitism is hatred of jews, but then I question that not all jews are Semitic so therefore not all anti Judaism is antisemitism with the latter being more damaging and racist. Antizionism means that you don’t believe jews should have a homeland, but again if a jew is an Ivanka Trump, I may not agree with zionism.

DP

I don’t agree that anti-Zionism must mean one doesn’t believe that Jews should have a homeland.

Can someone not be critical of Israel - perhaps even extremely critical - without wanting the nation state to disappear?

Why is the concept of “reform” as an alternative to “political dissolution” so difficult for some to consider?

This seems to be very subjective, therefore how can antizionism equal antisemitism if the definition varies even amongst the OG Jews?

Anonymous wrote:Well, new lawsuit just filed against the Nysmith school in VA alleging a pervasive culture of antisemitism.

Of particular relevance to the one lady relentlessly b**ching on this and other threads about her son being called an antisemite at school. Please understand that this is what Jewish students are dealing with at school: severe bullying and harassment, being called baby killers, being told they deserve to die, having their TEACHERS glorify Hitler…and when they dare complain, being expelled from school along with all their siblings: https://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/Vazquez-and-Roy-v.-Nysmith-School.-Virginia-Attorney-General-Office-of-Civil-Rights_Redacted-1.pdf

Note that among the many facts alleged, the school cancelled a speaker for Holocaust Memorial Day because they were afraid it would “inflame tensions” given the situation in Gaza. Then THE NEXT DAY, they hung a Palestinian flag in the gym.

Note also, for all you people insisting that all Jews are white - the father of the child is a Jew with a Hispanic surname and the mother is Indian. Similarly, for all those insisting Jews don’t experience antisemitism because they’re wealthy (setting aside the problematic stereotype) - this was a private school. The student’s wealth did not protect her at all.

This is in Herndon, VA in 2025.

Anonymous wrote:Well, new lawsuit just filed against the Nysmith school in VA alleging a pervasive culture of antisemitism.

Of particular relevance to the one lady relentlessly b**ching on this and other threads about her son being called an antisemite at school. Please understand that this is what Jewish students are dealing with at school: severe bullying and harassment, being called baby killers, being told they deserve to die, having their TEACHERS glorify Hitler…and when they dare complain, being expelled from school along with all their siblings: https://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/Vazquez-and-Roy-v.-Nysmith-School.-Virginia-Attorney-General-Office-of-Civil-Rights_Redacted-1.pdf

Note that among the many facts alleged, the school cancelled a speaker for Holocaust Memorial Day because they were afraid it would “inflame tensions” given the situation in Gaza. Then THE NEXT DAY, they hung a Palestinian flag in the gym.

Note also, for all you people insisting that all Jews are white - the father of the child is a Jew with a Hispanic surname and the mother is Indian. Similarly, for all those insisting Jews don’t experience antisemitism because they’re wealthy (setting aside the problematic stereotype) - this was a private school. The student’s wealth did not protect her at all.

This is in Herndon, VA in 2025.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, new lawsuit just filed against the Nysmith school in VA alleging a pervasive culture of antisemitism.

Of particular relevance to the one lady relentlessly b**ching on this and other threads about her son being called an antisemite at school. Please understand that this is what Jewish students are dealing with at school: severe bullying and harassment, being called baby killers, being told they deserve to die, having their TEACHERS glorify Hitler…and when they dare complain, being expelled from school along with all their siblings: https://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/Vazquez-and-Roy-v.-Nysmith-School.-Virginia-Attorney-General-Office-of-Civil-Rights_Redacted-1.pdf

Note that among the many facts alleged, the school cancelled a speaker for Holocaust Memorial Day because they were afraid it would “inflame tensions” given the situation in Gaza. Then THE NEXT DAY, they hung a Palestinian flag in the gym.

Note also, for all you people insisting that all Jews are white - the father of the child is a Jew with a Hispanic surname and the mother is Indian. Similarly, for all those insisting Jews don’t experience antisemitism because they’re wealthy (setting aside the problematic stereotype) - this was a private school. The student’s wealth did not protect her at all.

This is in Herndon, VA in 2025.

All this could’ve been avoided if the idf wasn’t streaming carpet bombs or dancing in dead women’s underwear on TikTok

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel is the homeland of the Jews. One of Ivanka Trump’s children could become leader of this Jewish nation one day.

One of Woody Allen’s children could become the leader of Israel some day. Not sure what your point is.

So the ancestral ties thing is really a bunch of crap. If an Ivanka Trump had more kids with a nonjew, not one person in this equation has ties to Israel or its land.

How does the fact that a minuscule number of converts immigrate to Israel somehow undermine the claim that Jews have ancestral ties to Israel? Judaism started in Israel. The vast majority of Jews are not converts. What is difficult to understand here, I’m not getting it.

Are you saying being Jewish isn’t an immutable characteristic so it’s all bullshit? People can convert to Judaism, yes, but the more relevant point is that ethnic Jews can’t really convert OUT of Judaism in a way that will shield them from discrimination. Even those who publicly disavow their faith or try to pass as Christians are persecuted (there are countless, countless examples of this during the Holocaust and throughout history). So Jewish ethnicity/ancestry is a salient category.

I have no idea how many people have converted throughout history, 2000+ years and neither do you. How many Ivanka Trumps have there been?

Just so I’m understanding correctly: your argument is that people may have converted to Judaism over the years, so Jews can’t claim ancestral ties to the land, so they have no legitimate claim to Israel, is that right? I think you’re misunderstanding what Israel is then.

First off - again, historically very few people have converted INTO Judaism. That’s just a fact. Even if we don’t know exact numbers, we know that most Jews are not converts and do not descend from converts.

Secondly, no one, except people on the fringe religious right, claims that Israel belongs to the Jews SOLELY because they used to live there 2000 years ago. That’s an element of it, sure, but there are lots of other reasons that particular piece of land was chosen. Chief among them - it was the only place on offer. Early Zionists considered Uganda, Madagascar, Japan, the USSR, and other places, but the British were uniquely amenable to the Zionist project. And a bunch of literal pogrom and/or concentration camp survivors weren’t in a position to turn that down, really. Additionally, Israel is a place that has religious significance for Jews. And a place where Jews have had a continuous presence for millennia.

I agree with what you've written here. BUT I think displacing Palestinians who also had a "continuous presence for millennia" to the land, tearing down their homes / communities, portraying that Israel was a "land without people for a people without land", seeking kudos for "making the desert bloom" when already orchards had been well established by Palestinians-- basically all acts that wiped away Palestinian history--- has led to the problems we see in the region.

To heal the wounds in the middle east, Israel needs to see that they have not always been the victim but have also the perpetrator.

Anonymous wrote:Well, new lawsuit just filed against the Nysmith school in VA alleging a pervasive culture of antisemitism.

Of particular relevance to the one lady relentlessly b**ching on this and other threads about her son being called an antisemite at school. Please understand that this is what Jewish students are dealing with at school: severe bullying and harassment, being called baby killers, being told they deserve to die, having their TEACHERS glorify Hitler…and when they dare complain, being expelled from school along with all their siblings: https://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/Vazquez-and-Roy-v.-Nysmith-School.-Virginia-Attorney-General-Office-of-Civil-Rights_Redacted-1.pdf

Note that among the many facts alleged, the school cancelled a speaker for Holocaust Memorial Day because they were afraid it would “inflame tensions” given the situation in Gaza. Then THE NEXT DAY, they hung a Palestinian flag in the gym.

Note also, for all you people insisting that all Jews are white - the father of the child is a Jew with a Hispanic surname and the mother is Indian. Similarly, for all those insisting Jews don’t experience antisemitism because they’re wealthy (setting aside the problematic stereotype) - this was a private school. The student’s wealth did not protect her at all.

This is in Herndon, VA in 2025.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel is the homeland of the Jews. One of Ivanka Trump’s children could become leader of this Jewish nation one day.

One of Woody Allen’s children could become the leader of Israel some day. Not sure what your point is.

So the ancestral ties thing is really a bunch of crap. If an Ivanka Trump had more kids with a nonjew, not one person in this equation has ties to Israel or its land.

How does the fact that a minuscule number of converts immigrate to Israel somehow undermine the claim that Jews have ancestral ties to Israel? Judaism started in Israel. The vast majority of Jews are not converts. What is difficult to understand here, I’m not getting it.

Are you saying being Jewish isn’t an immutable characteristic so it’s all bullshit? People can convert to Judaism, yes, but the more relevant point is that ethnic Jews can’t really convert OUT of Judaism in a way that will shield them from discrimination. Even those who publicly disavow their faith or try to pass as Christians are persecuted (there are countless, countless examples of this during the Holocaust and throughout history). So Jewish ethnicity/ancestry is a salient category.

I have no idea how many people have converted throughout history, 2000+ years and neither do you. How many Ivanka Trumps have there been?

Just so I’m understanding correctly: your argument is that people may have converted to Judaism over the years, so Jews can’t claim ancestral ties to the land, so they have no legitimate claim to Israel, is that right? I think you’re misunderstanding what Israel is then.

First off - again, historically very few people have converted INTO Judaism. That’s just a fact. Even if we don’t know exact numbers, we know that most Jews are not converts and do not descend from converts.

Secondly, no one, except people on the fringe religious right, claims that Israel belongs to the Jews SOLELY because they used to live there 2000 years ago. That’s an element of it, sure, but there are lots of other reasons that particular piece of land was chosen. Chief among them - it was the only place on offer. Early Zionists considered Uganda, Madagascar, Japan, the USSR, and other places, but the British were uniquely amenable to the Zionist project. And a bunch of literal pogrom and/or concentration camp survivors weren’t in a position to turn that down, really. Additionally, Israel is a place that has religious significance for Jews. And a place where Jews have had a continuous presence for millennia.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ezra Klein just said in his latest podcast…

The worst thing Israeli advocates can do is tie anti-Zionism to anti-semitism because it will drive many to say “fine, I’m the latter then”

Ezra is Jewish and a Zionist himself

I agree. I as a nonjew living amongst thousands of jews, am having a difficult time deciphering why the jews I personally know consider these terms synonymous. The definition of antisemitism is hatred of jews, but then I question that not all jews are Semitic so therefore not all anti Judaism is antisemitism with the latter being more damaging and racist. Antizionism means that you don’t believe jews should have a homeland, but again if a jew is an Ivanka Trump, I may not agree with zionism.

DP

I don’t agree that anti-Zionism must mean one doesn’t believe that Jews should have a homeland.

Can someone not be critical of Israel - perhaps even extremely critical - without wanting the nation state to disappear?

Why is the concept of “reform” as an alternative to “political dissolution” so difficult for some to consider?

This seems to be very subjective, therefore how can antizionism equal antisemitism if the definition varies even amongst the OG Jews?

Anti-Zionism is opposition to Zionism, the movement for the self-determination and statehood of the Jewish people in the Land of Israel. While it can encompass various viewpoints, it fundamentally denies the Jewish people's right to a Jewish state in that region. Anti-Zionism is distinct from criticism of specific policies of the Israeli government or critiques of the pre-state Zionist movement, as it attacks the legitimacy of Jewish statehood itself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ezra Klein just said in his latest podcast…

The worst thing Israeli advocates can do is tie anti-Zionism to anti-semitism because it will drive many to say “fine, I’m the latter then”

Ezra is Jewish and a Zionist himself

I agree. I as a nonjew living amongst thousands of jews, am having a difficult time deciphering why the jews I personally know consider these terms synonymous. The definition of antisemitism is hatred of jews, but then I question that not all jews are Semitic so therefore not all anti Judaism is antisemitism with the latter being more damaging and racist. Antizionism means that you don’t believe jews should have a homeland, but again if a jew is an Ivanka Trump, I may not agree with zionism.

Anonymous wrote:So there’s anti Judaism which could affect anyone who practices Judiasm, coverts would fit into this, these people have no ancestral ties to Israel and aren’t related to Holocaust victims, this is like any other anti religion.
Then you have antisemitism which is hatred of Semitic jews, the OG jews if you will. These jews have ancestral ties to Israel, they are genetically jewish, may suffer from genetically jewish diseases, tay sachs, brca 1-2 mutations, etc. they are directly related to Holocaust victims. Antizionism is belief that ‘jews’ should not have a homeland. Are these accurate? I have an issue with nonsemitic jews , converts if you will, having a homeland in the ME, when their homeland is clearly not Israel.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ezra Klein just said in his latest podcast…

The worst thing Israeli advocates can do is tie anti-Zionism to anti-semitism because it will drive many to say “fine, I’m the latter then”

Ezra is Jewish and a Zionist himself

I agree. I as a nonjew living amongst thousands of jews, am having a difficult time deciphering why the jews I personally know consider these terms synonymous. The definition of antisemitism is hatred of jews, but then I question that not all jews are Semitic so therefore not all anti Judaism is antisemitism with the latter being more damaging and racist. Antizionism means that you don’t believe jews should have a homeland, but again if a jew is an Ivanka Trump, I may not agree with zionism.

DP

I don’t agree that anti-Zionism must mean one doesn’t believe that Jews should have a homeland.

Can someone not be critical of Israel - perhaps even extremely critical - without wanting the nation state to disappear?

Why is the concept of “reform” as an alternative to “political dissolution” so difficult for some to consider?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ezra Klein just said in his latest podcast…

The worst thing Israeli advocates can do is tie anti-Zionism to anti-semitism because it will drive many to say “fine, I’m the latter then”

Ezra is Jewish and a Zionist himself

I agree. I as a nonjew living amongst thousands of jews, am having a difficult time deciphering why the jews I personally know consider these terms synonymous. The definition of antisemitism is hatred of jews, but then I question that not all jews are Semitic so therefore not all anti Judaism is antisemitism with the latter being more damaging and racist. Antizionism means that you don’t believe jews should have a homeland, but again if a jew is an Ivanka Trump, I may not agree with zionism.

DP

I don’t agree that anti-Zionism must mean one doesn’t believe that Jews should have a homeland.

Can someone not be critical of Israel - perhaps even extremely critical - without wanting the nation state to disappear?

Why is the concept of “reform” as an alternative to “political dissolution” so difficult for some to consider?

This seems to be very subjective, therefore how can antizionism equal antisemitism if the definition varies even amongst the OG Jews?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ezra Klein just said in his latest podcast…

The worst thing Israeli advocates can do is tie anti-Zionism to anti-semitism because it will drive many to say “fine, I’m the latter then”

Ezra is Jewish and a Zionist himself

I agree. I as a nonjew living amongst thousands of jews, am having a difficult time deciphering why the jews I personally know consider these terms synonymous. The definition of antisemitism is hatred of jews, but then I question that not all jews are Semitic so therefore not all anti Judaism is antisemitism with the latter being more damaging and racist. Antizionism means that you don’t believe jews should have a homeland, but again if a jew is an Ivanka Trump, I may not agree with zionism.

DP

I don’t agree that anti-Zionism must mean one doesn’t believe that Jews should have a homeland.

Can someone not be critical of Israel - perhaps even extremely critical - without wanting the nation state to disappear?

Why is the concept of “reform” as an alternative to “political dissolution” so difficult for some to consider?