Anonymous
05/21/2023 20:36
Subject: Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It takes two to tango. Democrats are going to have to accept significant compromises. Not sure why they act as if it is their way or the door. They don't hold Congress. Republicans do. Isn't that the whole point of a divided government?
Why do they need to accept anything? They aren't the ones manufacturing this crisis.
May I ask why you think the Republicans are manufacturing the crisis when it's just as much the Democrats manufacturing the crisis by refusing the cut spending? Remember, it takes two to tango. Politics does not mean Democrats do whatever they want and the Republicans shut up and keep quiet. At least, in theory.
The Republicans are manufacturing a crisis by linking the debt ceiling (ie paying bills already incurred) with future spending. These are separate issues and paying our debt shouldn’t be up for debate.
Republicans aren’t manufacturing a crisis; they’re seizing a political opportunity.
And they’re going to get what they want because — at the end of the day — no matter how much yelling, blaming, and finger-pointing the Dems do, Biden will get blamed if the country defaults. It’s what happens to the party in power.
You’re assuming the government is just going to stop paying all the bills. I don’t think that’s how it’s going to go. Yellen is already saying there are going to be some tough choices about which bills to pay. The administration is going to get to pick and choose who to pay. I expect they will make it as painful as possible for some key republican constituencies. When Boeing and Northrop Grumman stop getting their bills paid, they’re going to have McCarthy on speed dial.
A full stop or partial stop in paying bills both lead to a stock market crash, trillions lost in equity, and significant job losses.
And most of Boeing’s operations are in a blue part of a blue state…
These companies could float it for a period of time. They wouldn’t start laying folks off immediately. And they have operations all over the country precisely so they have employment impact in every district and state. There probably would be some big stock dives though. All the better for putting pressure on republicans who think this is just fun and games.
Anonymous
05/21/2023 20:32
Subject: Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It takes two to tango. Democrats are going to have to accept significant compromises. Not sure why they act as if it is their way or the door. They don't hold Congress. Republicans do. Isn't that the whole point of a divided government?
Why do they need to accept anything? They aren't the ones manufacturing this crisis.
May I ask why you think the Republicans are manufacturing the crisis when it's just as much the Democrats manufacturing the crisis by refusing the cut spending? Remember, it takes two to tango. Politics does not mean Democrats do whatever they want and the Republicans shut up and keep quiet. At least, in theory.
The Republicans are manufacturing a crisis by linking the debt ceiling (ie paying bills already incurred) with future spending. These are separate issues and paying our debt shouldn’t be up for debate.
Republicans aren’t manufacturing a crisis; they’re seizing a political opportunity.
And they’re going to get what they want because — at the end of the day — no matter how much yelling, blaming, and finger-pointing the Dems do, Biden will get blamed if the country defaults. It’s what happens to the party in power.
But what do they want? If you can’t even say what is, other than a political joke, well I’d say it’s going to fall pretty flat when the country enters a recession.
They’re going to get some sort of cap on discretionary spending and stricter work requirements for social safety programs. Dems will huff and puff but they’re not going to allow the country to default.
Any cap on discretionary spending will be applicable to 2024 only and could pass if both defense and non-defense receive the same reduction. That’s the only way it worked before. Any future caps will be lifted so they’re completely meaningless.
In exchange for caps and the ability to save face, the republicans need to drop work requirements.
Biden apparently offered them caps for both 24 and 25, but McCarthy rejected it because the reductions would have hit defense too. Mr. “we need to cut spending” actually wants to increase defense spending, which is by far the biggest discretionary item.
Anonymous
05/21/2023 19:29
Subject: Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It takes two to tango. Democrats are going to have to accept significant compromises. Not sure why they act as if it is their way or the door. They don't hold Congress. Republicans do. Isn't that the whole point of a divided government?
Why do they need to accept anything? They aren't the ones manufacturing this crisis.
May I ask why you think the Republicans are manufacturing the crisis when it's just as much the Democrats manufacturing the crisis by refusing the cut spending? Remember, it takes two to tango. Politics does not mean Democrats do whatever they want and the Republicans shut up and keep quiet. At least, in theory.
The Republicans are manufacturing a crisis by linking the debt ceiling (ie paying bills already incurred) with future spending. These are separate issues and paying our debt shouldn’t be up for debate.
Republicans aren’t manufacturing a crisis; they’re seizing a political opportunity.
And they’re going to get what they want because — at the end of the day — no matter how much yelling, blaming, and finger-pointing the Dems do, Biden will get blamed if the country defaults. It’s what happens to the party in power.
But what do they want? If you can’t even say what is, other than a political joke, well I’d say it’s going to fall pretty flat when the country enters a recession.
They’re going to get some sort of cap on discretionary spending and stricter work requirements for social safety programs. Dems will huff and puff but they’re not going to allow the country to default.
Any cap on discretionary spending will be applicable to 2024 only and could pass if both defense and non-defense receive the same reduction. That’s the only way it worked before. Any future caps will be lifted so they’re completely meaningless.
In exchange for caps and the ability to save face, the republicans need to drop work requirements.
Anonymous
05/21/2023 19:25
Subject: Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It takes two to tango. Democrats are going to have to accept significant compromises. Not sure why they act as if it is their way or the door. They don't hold Congress. Republicans do. Isn't that the whole point of a divided government?
Why do they need to accept anything? They aren't the ones manufacturing this crisis.
May I ask why you think the Republicans are manufacturing the crisis when it's just as much the Democrats manufacturing the crisis by refusing the cut spending? Remember, it takes two to tango. Politics does not mean Democrats do whatever they want and the Republicans shut up and keep quiet. At least, in theory.
The Republicans are manufacturing a crisis by linking the debt ceiling (ie paying bills already incurred) with future spending. These are separate issues and paying our debt shouldn’t be up for debate.
Republicans aren’t manufacturing a crisis; they’re seizing a political opportunity.
And they’re going to get what they want because — at the end of the day — no matter how much yelling, blaming, and finger-pointing the Dems do, Biden will get blamed if the country defaults. It’s what happens to the party in power.
You’re assuming the government is just going to stop paying all the bills. I don’t think that’s how it’s going to go. Yellen is already saying there are going to be some tough choices about which bills to pay. The administration is going to get to pick and choose who to pay. I expect they will make it as painful as possible for some key republican constituencies. When Boeing and Northrop Grumman stop getting their bills paid, they’re going to have McCarthy on speed dial.
A full stop or partial stop in paying bills both lead to a stock market crash, trillions lost in equity, and significant job losses.
And most of Boeing’s operations are in a blue part of a blue state…
Anonymous
05/21/2023 19:15
Subject: Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It takes two to tango. Democrats are going to have to accept significant compromises. Not sure why they act as if it is their way or the door. They don't hold Congress. Republicans do. Isn't that the whole point of a divided government?
Why do they need to accept anything? They aren't the ones manufacturing this crisis.
May I ask why you think the Republicans are manufacturing the crisis when it's just as much the Democrats manufacturing the crisis by refusing the cut spending? Remember, it takes two to tango. Politics does not mean Democrats do whatever they want and the Republicans shut up and keep quiet. At least, in theory.
The Republicans are manufacturing a crisis by linking the debt ceiling (ie paying bills already incurred) with future spending. These are separate issues and paying our debt shouldn’t be up for debate.
Republicans aren’t manufacturing a crisis; they’re seizing a political opportunity.
And they’re going to get what they want because — at the end of the day — no matter how much yelling, blaming, and finger-pointing the Dems do, Biden will get blamed if the country defaults. It’s what happens to the party in power.
You’re assuming the government is just going to stop paying all the bills. I don’t think that’s how it’s going to go. Yellen is already saying there are going to be some tough choices about which bills to pay. The administration is going to get to pick and choose who to pay. I expect they will make it as painful as possible for some key republican constituencies. When Boeing and Northrop Grumman stop getting their bills paid, they’re going to have McCarthy on speed dial.
Exactly. Defaulting on debt is not on the table, unless Biden really wants to do that. Trump might want to do it, as he declared bankruptcy multiple times, but I don't think anyone else would. If Republicans never pass a debt ceiling increase, there still would be no default on debt.
Anonymous
05/21/2023 19:13
Subject: Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:
The Republicans are manufacturing a crisis by linking the debt ceiling (ie paying bills already incurred) with future spending. These are separate issues and paying our debt shouldn’t be up for debate.
Paying debt is not up for debate, nor would it happen if republicans did what Biden wanted on the debt ceiling.
Interest on the debt is all that gets paid, since the late 90s, and probably more than 50 years.
This is all about future spending, not paying debt or interest. The debt ceiling is about not borrowing more money.
Anonymous
05/21/2023 18:42
Subject: Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It takes two to tango. Democrats are going to have to accept significant compromises. Not sure why they act as if it is their way or the door. They don't hold Congress. Republicans do. Isn't that the whole point of a divided government?
Why do they need to accept anything? They aren't the ones manufacturing this crisis.
May I ask why you think the Republicans are manufacturing the crisis when it's just as much the Democrats manufacturing the crisis by refusing the cut spending? Remember, it takes two to tango. Politics does not mean Democrats do whatever they want and the Republicans shut up and keep quiet. At least, in theory.
The Republicans are manufacturing a crisis by linking the debt ceiling (ie paying bills already incurred) with future spending. These are separate issues and paying our debt shouldn’t be up for debate.
Republicans aren’t manufacturing a crisis; they’re seizing a political opportunity.
And they’re going to get what they want because — at the end of the day — no matter how much yelling, blaming, and finger-pointing the Dems do, Biden will get blamed if the country defaults. It’s what happens to the party in power.
You’re assuming the government is just going to stop paying all the bills. I don’t think that’s how it’s going to go. Yellen is already saying there are going to be some tough choices about which bills to pay. The administration is going to get to pick and choose who to pay. I expect they will make it as painful as possible for some key republican constituencies. When Boeing and Northrop Grumman stop getting their bills paid, they’re going to have McCarthy on speed dial.
Anonymous
05/21/2023 18:37
Subject: Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It takes two to tango. Democrats are going to have to accept significant compromises. Not sure why they act as if it is their way or the door. They don't hold Congress. Republicans do. Isn't that the whole point of a divided government?
Why do they need to accept anything? They aren't the ones manufacturing this crisis.
May I ask why you think the Republicans are manufacturing the crisis when it's just as much the Democrats manufacturing the crisis by refusing the cut spending? Remember, it takes two to tango. Politics does not mean Democrats do whatever they want and the Republicans shut up and keep quiet. At least, in theory.
The Republicans are manufacturing a crisis by linking the debt ceiling (ie paying bills already incurred) with future spending. These are separate issues and paying our debt shouldn’t be up for debate.
Republicans aren’t manufacturing a crisis; they’re seizing a political opportunity.
And they’re going to get what they want because — at the end of the day — no matter how much yelling, blaming, and finger-pointing the Dems do, Biden will get blamed if the country defaults. It’s what happens to the party in power.
But what do they want? If you can’t even say what is, other than a political joke, well I’d say it’s going to fall pretty flat when the country enters a recession.
They’re going to get some sort of cap on discretionary spending and stricter work requirements for social safety programs. Dems will huff and puff but they’re not going to allow the country to default.
With the exception of children, the elderly and the disabled, there are already work requirements for public aid. I guess they want grandma with Dementia digging ditches?
Anonymous
05/21/2023 18:22
Subject: Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It takes two to tango. Democrats are going to have to accept significant compromises. Not sure why they act as if it is their way or the door. They don't hold Congress. Republicans do. Isn't that the whole point of a divided government?
Why do they need to accept anything? They aren't the ones manufacturing this crisis.
May I ask why you think the Republicans are manufacturing the crisis when it's just as much the Democrats manufacturing the crisis by refusing the cut spending? Remember, it takes two to tango. Politics does not mean Democrats do whatever they want and the Republicans shut up and keep quiet. At least, in theory.
Biden gave McCarthy a proposal to cut spending across the board , but he rejected it because he actually wants to increase spending on a bunch of things like defense.
+1. And what exactly are republicans offering to give up? They say that every democratic proposal for closing tax loopholes etc. is off the table. Seems like the republicans just want the democrats to shut up and give them everything they want without offering anything in return.
Anonymous
05/21/2023 18:15
Subject: Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It takes two to tango. Democrats are going to have to accept significant compromises. Not sure why they act as if it is their way or the door. They don't hold Congress. Republicans do. Isn't that the whole point of a divided government?
Why do they need to accept anything? They aren't the ones manufacturing this crisis.
May I ask why you think the Republicans are manufacturing the crisis when it's just as much the Democrats manufacturing the crisis by refusing the cut spending? Remember, it takes two to tango. Politics does not mean Democrats do whatever they want and the Republicans shut up and keep quiet. At least, in theory.
Biden gave McCarthy a proposal to cut spending across the board , but he rejected it because he actually wants to increase spending on a bunch of things like defense.
Anonymous
05/21/2023 17:59
Subject: Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It takes two to tango. Democrats are going to have to accept significant compromises. Not sure why they act as if it is their way or the door. They don't hold Congress. Republicans do. Isn't that the whole point of a divided government?
Why do they need to accept anything? They aren't the ones manufacturing this crisis.
May I ask why you think the Republicans are manufacturing the crisis when it's just as much the Democrats manufacturing the crisis by refusing the cut spending? Remember, it takes two to tango. Politics does not mean Democrats do whatever they want and the Republicans shut up and keep quiet. At least, in theory.
The Republicans are manufacturing a crisis by linking the debt ceiling (ie paying bills already incurred) with future spending. These are separate issues and paying our debt shouldn’t be up for debate.
Republicans aren’t manufacturing a crisis; they’re seizing a political opportunity.
And they’re going to get what they want because — at the end of the day — no matter how much yelling, blaming, and finger-pointing the Dems do, Biden will get blamed if the country defaults. It’s what happens to the party in power.
But what do they want? If you can’t even say what is, other than a political joke, well I’d say it’s going to fall pretty flat when the country enters a recession.
They’re going to get some sort of cap on discretionary spending and stricter work requirements for social safety programs. Dems will huff and puff but they’re not going to allow the country to default.
Anonymous
05/21/2023 17:44
Subject: Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It takes two to tango. Democrats are going to have to accept significant compromises. Not sure why they act as if it is their way or the door. They don't hold Congress. Republicans do. Isn't that the whole point of a divided government?
Why do they need to accept anything? They aren't the ones manufacturing this crisis.
May I ask why you think the Republicans are manufacturing the crisis when it's just as much the Democrats manufacturing the crisis by refusing the cut spending? Remember, it takes two to tango. Politics does not mean Democrats do whatever they want and the Republicans shut up and keep quiet. At least, in theory.
The Republicans are manufacturing a crisis by linking the debt ceiling (ie paying bills already incurred) with future spending. These are separate issues and paying our debt shouldn’t be up for debate.
Republicans aren’t manufacturing a crisis; they’re seizing a political opportunity.
And they’re going to get what they want because — at the end of the day — no matter how much yelling, blaming, and finger-pointing the Dems do, Biden will get blamed if the country defaults. It’s what happens to the party in power.
But what do they want? If you can’t even say what is, other than a political joke, well I’d say it’s going to fall pretty flat when the country enters a recession.
Anonymous
05/21/2023 16:20
Subject: Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It takes two to tango. Democrats are going to have to accept significant compromises. Not sure why they act as if it is their way or the door. They don't hold Congress. Republicans do. Isn't that the whole point of a divided government?
Why do they need to accept anything? They aren't the ones manufacturing this crisis.
May I ask why you think the Republicans are manufacturing the crisis when it's just as much the Democrats manufacturing the crisis by refusing the cut spending? Remember, it takes two to tango. Politics does not mean Democrats do whatever they want and the Republicans shut up and keep quiet. At least, in theory.
The debt ceiling - manufactured crises - has nothing to do with cutting spending. That happens in the next budget round. The current situation is about paying service on debt that the country has already amassed, much of it during the 2017-2020 cycle when the GOP exploded the deficit by 8 trillion dollars without having a mechanism to pay for it. So yes, the GOP has absolutely manufactured this situation.
Anonymous
05/21/2023 16:09
Subject: Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It takes two to tango. Democrats are going to have to accept significant compromises. Not sure why they act as if it is their way or the door. They don't hold Congress. Republicans do. Isn't that the whole point of a divided government?
Why do they need to accept anything? They aren't the ones manufacturing this crisis.
May I ask why you think the Republicans are manufacturing the crisis when it's just as much the Democrats manufacturing the crisis by refusing the cut spending? Remember, it takes two to tango. Politics does not mean Democrats do whatever they want and the Republicans shut up and keep quiet. At least, in theory.
The Republicans are manufacturing a crisis by linking the debt ceiling (ie paying bills already incurred) with future spending. These are separate issues and paying our debt shouldn’t be up for debate.
Republicans aren’t manufacturing a crisis; they’re seizing a political opportunity.
And they’re going to get what they want because — at the end of the day — no matter how much yelling, blaming, and finger-pointing the Dems do, Biden will get blamed if the country defaults. It’s what happens to the party in power.
The Republicans will be blamed, just like they were for each government shutdown. However, the GOP base doesn’t care and wants to create an economic recession. It’s their preferred outcome, so Republicans face no repercussions.
Anonymous
05/21/2023 16:02
Subject: Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It takes two to tango. Democrats are going to have to accept significant compromises. Not sure why they act as if it is their way or the door. They don't hold Congress. Republicans do. Isn't that the whole point of a divided government?
Why do they need to accept anything? They aren't the ones manufacturing this crisis.
May I ask why you think the Republicans are manufacturing the crisis when it's just as much the Democrats manufacturing the crisis by refusing the cut spending? Remember, it takes two to tango. Politics does not mean Democrats do whatever they want and the Republicans shut up and keep quiet. At least, in theory.
The Republicans are manufacturing a crisis by linking the debt ceiling (ie paying bills already incurred) with future spending. These are separate issues and paying our debt shouldn’t be up for debate.
Republicans aren’t manufacturing a crisis; they’re seizing a political opportunity.
And they’re going to get what they want because — at the end of the day — no matter how much yelling, blaming, and finger-pointing the Dems do, Biden will get blamed if the country defaults. It’s what happens to the party in power.