Those doggone "criminals" and all those "mental health" problems out there...

Just so long as we all recognize that mass shootings have NOTHING to do with easy access to the purchase of assault weapons, it'll all work itself out.

Bottom line: there is no problem, folks. So keep voting Republican!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have had some create a distraction so others could get past and get in there.

uh-huh

NP, I know there is often grandstanding on this board and it’s hard to say with certainty what someone would do when faced with mortal danger but I do think a large percentage of parents would do anything they could to save their child in this situation. In fact most parents would die without hesitation to save their child.

+1
It’s possible the police would have had to shoot me in the back to stop me from running in there. I can’t imagine the helpless horror those poor kids and parents felt. Extra cruel.

The cops did not stop the BP officer who showed just kind of feed the narrative that the cops were scared.

Some of the cops stepped forward and provided him cover while he rescued kids.

1 or 2 did after 19 waited around for 40 minutes because they were scared.

More than two. Let’s at least give them their due, given they were being told to stand down by their chief.

Is there new info or more details? Last I heard it was a group of 3-4 that went in with 1-2 being sheriff's deputies. I'll praise whomever deserves praise.

So they helped a buddy get his kids but handcuffed others?

Im sure orhers did but in this case we're talking about the assault team led by the off-duty CBP guy. At least one sheriff's deputy and one other CBP joined. I'm not sure how big a group it was but it was small. What's worse is the CBP borrowed the ballistic shield from the Uvalde guys who were too scared.

The article I read said it was him, 2 officers providing cover, and 2 more helping escort children to safety. He evacuated the wing his child was in, but it doesn't sound like he started with his child's class (whether that's intentional I couldn't say). I remember a line that was something like when he found his child, he gave them a hug and sent them out with the other officers and continued evacuating the other children in that wing.


I've heard the stories about some cops going in and getting their children out, but the DPS director said that wasn't true, and I haven't found any articles backing it up. This is the closest I can find to that rumor. Cops going in and getting out individual kids is inexcusable, but what this CBP agent did, leading a team and evacuating a whole wing (even if he picked that wing because his child was there), especially if they'd been told to stand down, I can at least understand it and support it to an extent. Their training was to take out the shooter first, but as much of a clusterf*** as this has been, at least he did something valuable.

One parent did go in and come out only with her own kids. Could she have taken others? I mean, since we are critiquing, right?

You mean the unarmed, no tactical gear having mom that was handcuffed by the police? The one that as soon as the handcuffs were removed, ran as fast as she could AWAY from the police to the school, jumped the fence, ran into the school with an active shooter, found her kids and ran out?

That mom?

You think that’s the same as police officers, trained and armed police officers, that were not just shouted at and handcuffed by police officers?

I didn’t say it was the same? I know for a fact, though, I would have brought other kids. You are morally bound to do so. Police were wrong but once she knew she could get her own kids out, you take others. YMMV

NP but I think it’s unfair to say you would have taken other kids out as well. I would like to think I would have but who knows what was going on in that room to make her not do that. None of us can understand the stress, fear and pure adrenaline running through this mother’s mind and body.

The teacher may have been following protocol and would not let the other kids leave and kept them safe in the room. I don't think any parent was under any obligation to take out any other children than their own. I would like to think I would try but I honestly don't know what them done. One pumping knowing the cops weren't doing anything. I don't know how I would have reacted.
I consistently don't understand like more people don't go out windows of first story rooms.

Those inside did not know where the gunman was. Since the woman made it safely to the classroom, it's reasonable to assume at that point he was not there. He also knew if he moved around the school, he would have gotten shot at. He wasn't taking that risk. We know this because he hasn't moved positions in quite a while.

Protocol no longer matters. Sorry teacher. The police were outside. The gunman was inside. Did the parent get her kids out through an outside door to the classroom? If so, it was much safer to get the kids out of the classroom where the police can provide cover. She clearly felt safe enough to get her own kids out. She took that risk. I'm not saying she was wrong or right, but leaving 20+ kids behind while you take your own ... I personally can't imagine it.

I don’t understand why law enforcement didn’t seem to know where the shooter was. Can’t they communicate with each other? Children repeatedly gave their location as classroom numbers 111 and 112 to 911 dispatchers. Dispatch didn’t communicate that to people on the scene? There’s no point person for communications?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/27/us/uvalde-shooting-police-response-timeline/index.html


According to the timeline, the cops didn’t stand around while the shooter was “killing babies”. The high likelihood is he did all his murders in the first 15 minutes of entry.

They were at the door within minutes. Imagine the possibility that some of those children bled out while they waited, and possibly could have been saved had they breached the door earlier.
No, they didn't pull the trigger, and the shooter is ultimately responsible. But what they did was indefensible.
Do you have kids? Can you imagine the abject terror of the children locked in that room with a gunman for over an hour, begging for help from police? It sickens me to look at my Teo young children and imagine them going through that...or anyone else's kids.

That is an absolutely lie. There are 9/11 calls within the timeline of the cops standing outside the door from kids inside the classroom pleading for 'police' only to be dead once they breeched it 90 minutes in.

He entered classrooms 111/112 at 11:33AM. A female student IN THOSE CLASSROOMS called police at 12:03PM and again at 12:13PM. And a third time at 12:16PM. She reported that at least 9 of her classmates were still alive.

A child was on the phone from 12:36PM - 12:47PM. The mass shooter died at 12:58PM.

https://apnews.com/article/texas-school-shooting-timeline-6069b0cf01e5f732ef55f9fd0b7109d7

Yeah, that's what I said. I'm the PP you quoted. Exactly where did I lie? The officers standing outside the door likely could have saved some of those poor kids.

I'm talking to the OP who posted before you - The high likelihood is he did all his murders in the first 15 minutes of entry.

But they didn’t all die in the first 15 minutes. Some could have been saved. Some were still alive an hour later and died at the hospital.

The training for the cops is 1. Stop the killing by taking out the shooter and then 2. Stop the dying by getting immediate help for the injured who are still alive. There is no training to wait an hour.

It’s possible, but unlikely that any children shot with an AR15 would survive. I mean, we can hope, and we certainly want to respond quickly in case anyone is alive and try to save them. But realistically, that’s just not how those guns work, not the physics or biology of the situation. Some of these kids had to be identified from DNA. When an adult is shot, doctors have described the organ damage as being like when a melon is smashed with a sledgehammer. So basically unless they were just grazed, hits are going to be lethal. That’s why people want these guns banned. It’s hard to survive.

It’s true that they didn’t all die before the cops got there though. The cops told the kids to call out if they needed help, and when a girl called out for help, the gunman found her and shot her. https://www.kens5.com/amp/article/news/special-reports/uvalde-school-shooting/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-fourth-grader-student-account-elementary/273-51cc4e26-7a0a-49c0-ba7a-48cdd47fa235

Seventeen people were injured at the school, but survived. I don’t think they’ve publicly identified these 17 people or told us what their injuries were. Were they minor injuries, like abrasions from broken glass or a sprained ankle while fleeing? Were these 17 mostly law enforcement? Are they including parents who were injured by officers trying to hold them at bay? I don’t think we know for sure yet if there are any children who survived being shot, but we do know that the best chance the victims had for survival was to receive medical care ASAP.

Anonymous wrote:According to experts and the Cowboy Hat Cop, law enforcement botched the response for too long a period, based on what is known now. Why these weapons can legally be purchased by anyone is beyond me. I don’t know what these potbellied men are so scared of.

We all know what they are scared of, heck, I would be scared too.

The thing I don't understand is why most police still support the GOP, which is putting them in these situations with crazy people armed with weapons of mass destruction.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have had some create a distraction so others could get past and get in there.

uh-huh

NP, I know there is often grandstanding on this board and it’s hard to say with certainty what someone would do when faced with mortal danger but I do think a large percentage of parents would do anything they could to save their child in this situation. In fact most parents would die without hesitation to save their child.

+1
It’s possible the police would have had to shoot me in the back to stop me from running in there. I can’t imagine the helpless horror those poor kids and parents felt. Extra cruel.

The cops did not stop the BP officer who showed just kind of feed the narrative that the cops were scared.

Some of the cops stepped forward and provided him cover while he rescued kids.

1 or 2 did after 19 waited around for 40 minutes because they were scared.

More than two. Let’s at least give them their due, given they were being told to stand down by their chief.

Is there new info or more details? Last I heard it was a group of 3-4 that went in with 1-2 being sheriff's deputies. I'll praise whomever deserves praise.

So they helped a buddy get his kids but handcuffed others?

Im sure orhers did but in this case we're talking about the assault team led by the off-duty CBP guy. At least one sheriff's deputy and one other CBP joined. I'm not sure how big a group it was but it was small. What's worse is the CBP borrowed the ballistic shield from the Uvalde guys who were too scared.

The article I read said it was him, 2 officers providing cover, and 2 more helping escort children to safety. He evacuated the wing his child was in, but it doesn't sound like he started with his child's class (whether that's intentional I couldn't say). I remember a line that was something like when he found his child, he gave them a hug and sent them out with the other officers and continued evacuating the other children in that wing.


I've heard the stories about some cops going in and getting their children out, but the DPS director said that wasn't true, and I haven't found any articles backing it up. This is the closest I can find to that rumor. Cops going in and getting out individual kids is inexcusable, but what this CBP agent did, leading a team and evacuating a whole wing (even if he picked that wing because his child was there), especially if they'd been told to stand down, I can at least understand it and support it to an extent. Their training was to take out the shooter first, but as much of a clusterf*** as this has been, at least he did something valuable.

One parent did go in and come out only with her own kids. Could she have taken others? I mean, since we are critiquing, right?

You mean the unarmed, no tactical gear having mom that was handcuffed by the police? The one that as soon as the handcuffs were removed, ran as fast as she could AWAY from the police to the school, jumped the fence, ran into the school with an active shooter, found her kids and ran out?

That mom?

You think that’s the same as police officers, trained and armed police officers, that were not just shouted at and handcuffed by police officers?

I didn’t say it was the same? I know for a fact, though, I would have brought other kids. You are morally bound to do so. Police were wrong but once she knew she could get her own kids out, you take others. YMMV

NP but I think it’s unfair to say you would have taken other kids out as well. I would like to think I would have but who knows what was going on in that room to make her not do that. None of us can understand the stress, fear and pure adrenaline running through this mother’s mind and body.

The teacher may have been following protocol and would not let the other kids leave and kept them safe in the room. I don't think any parent was under any obligation to take out any other children than their own. I would like to think I would try but I honestly don't know what them done. One pumping knowing the cops weren't doing anything. I don't know how I would have reacted.
I consistently don't understand like more people don't go out windows of first story rooms.

Those inside did not know where the gunman was. Since the woman made it safely to the classroom, it's reasonable to assume at that point he was not there. He also knew if he moved around the school, he would have gotten shot at. He wasn't taking that risk. We know this because he hasn't moved positions in quite a while.

Protocol no longer matters. Sorry teacher. The police were outside. The gunman was inside. Did the parent get her kids out through an outside door to the classroom? If so, it was much safer to get the kids out of the classroom where the police can provide cover. She clearly felt safe enough to get her own kids out. She took that risk. I'm not saying she was wrong or right, but leaving 20+ kids behind while you take your own ... I personally can't imagine it.

You can’t imagine a regular mom, not trained ‘to serve and protect’, would move on pure instinct to save her kids?

Maybe if she had some time to think between running from the cops and bursting into a school with a crazy active shooter, but this does not seem like any sort of act of malice. She did not intentionally plan to go in there and only get her kids. I wholeheartedly believe that.

Not like the police officers did. How they assessed the situation, a situation they are trained in and rationalized (wrongly) that it wasn’t safe for other kids, just theirs.

Of course it would have been better to evacuate more kids. Hands down. But not everyone is thinking during moments of crisis. They are in survival mode. I cannot imagine the kind of courage it took for this mom. I’m sorry you prefer to judge an unarmed, untrained parent over being able to dig deep and feel what type of pure adrenaline and instinct that had to take.

I watch the videos of those parents and wonder, would I be like the mom crying on her knees, the one yelling at the police, or the one jumping over the fence. I like to think the last one, but our bodies take over in a crisis. If you’ve never experienced one, then you would not understand, but you should be grateful you haven’t had to find out.

According to experts and the Cowboy Hat Cop, law enforcement botched the response for too long a period, based on what is known now. Why these weapons can legally be purchased by anyone is beyond me. I don’t know what these potbellied men are so scared of.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The school security officer was not on campus. That’s a bigger deal than the door.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/28/uvalde-classroom-police-911-failure/

On Friday, McCraw added that the school police officer was not on campus but rushed there after the 911 call about a man with a gun at the crash.

“He drove right by the suspect,” who was crouched behind a vehicle in the parking lot, and mistook a teacher for an intruder, McCraw said.

He was there within a minute of the truck crash/shooting. And he was in the parking lot at the same time as the killer.

More deflection.

And yet the killer got in the school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone else afraid for Biden and his trip to Texas. Every elected republican official in the state has gone right up to the line in threatening Biden and out and out said he is not the legitimate president. Biden stole the election. The police force who will be providing the perimeter security is incompetent and openly hostile to Biden. It is very worrying.

Presumably he knows what security he can and can't trust. Mike pence knew not to get in that car on Jan 6th.

Of the rhetoric pushed out by Fox News and the elected republicans is very scary. This is the type of environment where you do not know what will happen.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t have a propped door; you don’t have an ingress point. It is not delusional to focus on the door.

If you don’t have guns overflowing every orifice of your state, you don’t have 19 little kids blown to bits. Just SHUT up.

You're off point. This isn't a general argument about hardening schools. There was a propped door, reportedly. It is normal to wish it hadn't been.

NP but maybe the propped door isn’t discussed because they know he could just kick down a door or shoot the door open. Or shoot through a window. Or find an open window. Schools aren’t prisons and they shouldn’t be.

Look, every thing that can help. Some classrooms were apparently locked. No way these weapons should be legal. But everything that can be done must be done for safety.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You see, it was the school’s fault! If pinky they’d kept their doors shut, they wouldn’t have been asking for it.

My god. The depravity if you guns nuts knows no limits.

No one said this at all, so you're picking a political fight just for the sake of doing so. Several things can be true at one time.

Are you kidding? This is the GOP talking point now.

So wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean is this any different than what Black people have been saying for literally years? That the cops are murderers?

Um... The assault weapons-armed shooters are the murderers. The cops just stood around and did nothing while it was going on. They were afraid of getting shot... by an assault weapon. (They turn people into mush.)

and Republicans think there's no problem.

They're not stupid. They get it's not ideal that the US leads the world in school shootings.

They just don't care because their voters don't care.

Ultimately, that is why these kids died. Republican voters don’t care.

But they do send Thoughts-n-Prayers!

As do the Democrats who also rage on forums and FB and nothing changes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t have a propped door; you don’t have an ingress point. It is not delusional to focus on the door.

If you don’t have guns overflowing every orifice of your state, you don’t have 19 little kids blown to bits. Just SHUT up.

You're off point. This isn't a general argument about hardening schools. There was a propped door, reportedly. It is normal to wish it hadn't been.

Sure. It’s also normal to wish that TX wasn’t a lawless sh*those of a state full of gun nuts.

Meaningful gun control, proper school security, and effective law enforcement--the country deserves all of it,

Just so long as assault weapons remain widely available for sale, Republicans are all in!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean is this any different than what Black people have been saying for literally years? That the cops are murderers?

Um... The assault weapons-armed shooters are the murderers. The cops just stood around and did nothing while it was going on. They were afraid of getting shot... by an assault weapon. (They turn people into mush.)

and Republicans think there's no problem.

They're not stupid. They get it's not ideal that the US leads the world in school shootings.

They just don't care because their voters don't care.

Ultimately, that is why these kids died. Republican voters don’t care.

But they do send Thoughts-n-Prayers!

Anonymous wrote:The school security officer was not on campus. That’s a bigger deal than the door.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/28/uvalde-classroom-police-911-failure/

On Friday, McCraw added that the school police officer was not on campus but rushed there after the 911 call about a man with a gun at the crash.

“He drove right by the suspect,” who was crouched behind a vehicle in the parking lot, and mistook a teacher for an intruder, McCraw said.

He was there within a minute of the truck crash/shooting. And he was in the parking lot at the same time as the killer.

More deflection.

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone else afraid for Biden and his trip to Texas. Every elected republican official in the state has gone right up to the line in threatening Biden and out and out said he is not the legitimate president. Biden stole the election. The police force who will be providing the perimeter security is incompetent and openly hostile to Biden. It is very worrying.

Democratic POTUSs do have a bad track record in Texas.

So many armed nut jobs running around.