Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But having violent riots in Keith Scott's case was wrong - and premature. It was based on the assumption that when a cop kills a black guy, the cop is always guilty. And isn't they what prejudice really is? Making assumptions and painting everyone in a particular group with a broad brush, and condemning them without any facts?

The other cases you brought up were travesties. But the one with Scott weakens the point.

+1.

And this is not the first time it happens. Or the second time. Or the third time.

BLM is built on lies and paranoia.

Yes, we need a serious work to prevent and deal with police brutality. But BLM is only Making Things Worse.

BLM should be renamed MTW.

This. Exactly. X1000.

People need to understand this. Especially our young people.

Unity is our future; while BLM only seeks to spread hate and divide us so that some may gain politically.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With few exceptions, every dead guy had something in common: He defied the police. Refusing to comply with police commands is against the law, and you can get arrested for that alone. Where did people get the idea that following police instructions is voluntary? Just f'in do what they say!

That you don't see a problem with this is alarming.

That you think people can decide for themselves whether to follow lawful police instructions is concerning.

Anonymous wrote:With few exceptions, every dead guy had something in common: He defied the police. Refusing to comply with police commands is against the law, and you can get arrested for that alone. Where did people get the idea that following police instructions is voluntary? Just f'in do what they say!

That you don't see a problem with this is alarming.

Anonymous wrote:So how do we change that perception? Does the Black community have any part in changing that perception or it's all on the police? You've said that even though the evidence doesn't back up that perception, it's "pointless."

That's the question right there. How do we stop police from looking at blacks like threats and how do we stop predominantly black communities from looking at the police as occupying forces?

Well...I'm bout as optimistic as they come but when it comes to this I'm skeptical as a mug cause I know what needs to happen but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Why? Because its up to us, all of us.
It's not up to this group or that group - its up to each and every one of us to rely less on stereotypes and its up to each and every one of us to refrain from perpetuating those stereotypes (especially in this age of social media) and its up to each and every one of us to teach our children not to feed into those stereotypes. It's up to each and every one of us to change our collective consciousness with regards to...you ready?...
Poor people.

Yes, believe it or not I don't think its race that's underlying factor in all this. I certainly believe it is a factor but at the end of the day I think its class that is the root of all these negative perceptions and we LOVE dehumanizing poor people in this country. We view poor people like they are straight garbage and let's face it - its a lot of poor black folks living in concentrated areas of poverty and those are the areas with the most tension between cops and civilians...predominately poor communities...which is why you have black cops shooting black guys cause its not so much the skin but the class that fuels their apathy and antipathy.

This is the perception that needs to change more than anything - the perception we have of poor people - because THEY are the ones who end up confronted most often by the police because THEY are the ones that we as a society automatically equate with immorality and criminality. Even though rich folks steal and rape and do all types of decrepit crap and even though middle class folks do drugs and commit murder and do all types of decrepit crap, cops don't scrutinize somebody who looks like they're well off or at least halfway decent. If you got on a 3-piece suit and some freshly shined shoes I don't care what race you are, you can linger outside a liquor store from sun-up til sundown and won't nobody have a problem with your presence, but let your ass be in a raggedy overcoat wearing some beat up sneakers...
If you look like that I don't care what race you are the cops will be around QUICK to tell you to move your ass and you damn sure better move because you're too broke to have any rights and you're too broke to be treated with any civility - you either comply or you get dealt with.
Real talk.

I'm rambling but basically the way I see it we're ever going to change these perceptions and get to a point where innocent people aren't unnecessarily killed and good community servants aren't undeservedly demonized if we - all of us - somehow find a way to stop dehumanizing one another, especially the poor.

So how do we change that perception? Does the Black community have any part in changing that perception or it's all on the police? You've said that even though the evidence doesn't back up that perception, it's "pointless."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, sometimes the police were trigger-happy, and other times their instincts were correct in dealing with a threatening ex-felon. The problem comes about when black people see every single shooting as wrong (and then riot in the streets).

The other problem is that this puts an unacceptable amount of power in the hands of black people defying police and threatening them with a gun. A cop is now going to be more reluctant to defend himself against some gun-yielding criminal because he knows....no matter how much a cop's life is in danger, if the criminal is black, all hell will break loose if he defends himself.

All hell doesn't have to break loose if police simply utilize the same tactics and temperament that they use when dealing with white criminals as they do when dealing with black criminals.
I know its tempting to think its just sheer luck or that its some kind of Walt Disney magic pixie dust that a certain segment of criminals are sprinkled with that enables police to somehow manage to find a way to apprehend gun-yielding white criminals without killing them but I don't buy that bullcrap.
I think if police used the same tactics that they do on white armed suspects or if police actually made an effort to deescalate situations the same way they do with white armed suspects instead of jumping at the opportunity to open fire when engaging black guys there'd be no hell breaking loose cause nobody would be dead!

There's that racist attitude again. The cops didn't "jump at the opportunity to open fire on a black guy." They warned him 12 times to drop his weapon. All the violent, ex-felon with the stolen gun had to do is obey the law. The cops acted correctly.

I wasn't talking about this one incident I was talking in broader terms about the overall propensity for cops across the country to blow away black guys with guns but somehow the same cops across the country always manage to magically apprehend white guys with guns.

That's not true. Between Jan 2015 and July 2016, 732 white people were shot and killed by police. (WaPo)

I appreciate the stat-hunting but let's not go there. In this day and age its so easy to jump on Google and find numbers to support practically any argument - I too could quite easily grab some stats that reinforce my assertion that cops by and large are more likely to blow away a black guy than a white guy - but again, let's not go there. Let's rely on simple common knowledge and though its risky, some simple everyday perception. Because that's what prompted the uprisings to begin with isn't it? Perception? People weren't up in arms because of some numbers they saw flashing across their screen or because they heard about some statistics - they were up in arms because of their common knowledge based on their everyday observations and perceptions that white guys don't get blown away arbitrarily by cops. They get shot in the shoulder or the leg after lengthy standoffs maybe, but ultimately white guys get arrested more times than not when they pose a threat. Same don't apply for black guys and that pisses people off. So whatever it is - whatever tricks of the trade cops are using to disarm white guys and whatever secret decoder ring means of communication cops are using to talk to white criminals and deescalate situations...they need to try utilizing those same techniques and tactics on black folks a little more frequently so its not common knowledge that if a black guy is perceived as a threat he's as good as dead.

Exactly! What the hell's wrong with you, PP, trying to support your point with facts?! Everyone knows all cops are racist!

Lol - yeah touche but I'm serious though. I said I got no qualms with facts and I also said I can grab some too but I'm not interested in going there cause it's pointless.
Y'all wanna argue back and forth about facts and numbers like you proving something, but guess what, if you ain't a cop and if you ain't a black man (you know the two members at the heart of this mess) then you don't give a flying fart about some damn numbers. Numbers don't mean jack shizzle - its the perception that matters because that's the root cause of all this animosity and uprest - the perceptions.
Cops know good and got damn well every black male between 18-40 years of age isn't a gang-banging gun-toting thug...the facs/numbers say the majority are decent hard-working respectable citizens but cops don't take any chances do they? They rely on perceptions don't they? Cause they want to make it to another day alive don't they?
Well similarly black men know good and got damn well every police officer isn't a racist trigger-happy bully-with-a-badge...the facts/numbers say the majority are decent hard-working respectable community servants but blacks don't take any chances do they? They rely on perceptions don't they? Cause they want to make it to another day alive don't they?
Perception at the root of all this mess but my bad for pointing that out.

With few exceptions, every dead guy had something in common: He defied the police. Refusing to comply with police commands is against the law, and you can get arrested for that alone. Where did people get the idea that following police instructions is voluntary? Just f'in do what they say!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, sometimes the police were trigger-happy, and other times their instincts were correct in dealing with a threatening ex-felon. The problem comes about when black people see every single shooting as wrong (and then riot in the streets).

The other problem is that this puts an unacceptable amount of power in the hands of black people defying police and threatening them with a gun. A cop is now going to be more reluctant to defend himself against some gun-yielding criminal because he knows....no matter how much a cop's life is in danger, if the criminal is black, all hell will break loose if he defends himself.

All hell doesn't have to break loose if police simply utilize the same tactics and temperament that they use when dealing with white criminals as they do when dealing with black criminals.
I know its tempting to think its just sheer luck or that its some kind of Walt Disney magic pixie dust that a certain segment of criminals are sprinkled with that enables police to somehow manage to find a way to apprehend gun-yielding white criminals without killing them but I don't buy that bullcrap.
I think if police used the same tactics that they do on white armed suspects or if police actually made an effort to deescalate situations the same way they do with white armed suspects instead of jumping at the opportunity to open fire when engaging black guys there'd be no hell breaking loose cause nobody would be dead!

There's that racist attitude again. The cops didn't "jump at the opportunity to open fire on a black guy." They warned him 12 times to drop his weapon. All the violent, ex-felon with the stolen gun had to do is obey the law. The cops acted correctly.

I wasn't talking about this one incident I was talking in broader terms about the overall propensity for cops across the country to blow away black guys with guns but somehow the same cops across the country always manage to magically apprehend white guys with guns.

That's not true. Between Jan 2015 and July 2016, 732 white people were shot and killed by police. (WaPo)

I appreciate the stat-hunting but let's not go there. In this day and age its so easy to jump on Google and find numbers to support practically any argument - I too could quite easily grab some stats that reinforce my assertion that cops by and large are more likely to blow away a black guy than a white guy - but again, let's not go there. Let's rely on simple common knowledge and though its risky, some simple everyday perception. Because that's what prompted the uprisings to begin with isn't it? Perception? People weren't up in arms because of some numbers they saw flashing across their screen or because they heard about some statistics - they were up in arms because of their common knowledge based on their everyday observations and perceptions that white guys don't get blown away arbitrarily by cops. They get shot in the shoulder or the leg after lengthy standoffs maybe, but ultimately white guys get arrested more times than not when they pose a threat. Same don't apply for black guys and that pisses people off. So whatever it is - whatever tricks of the trade cops are using to disarm white guys and whatever secret decoder ring means of communication cops are using to talk to white criminals and deescalate situations...they need to try utilizing those same techniques and tactics on black folks a little more frequently so its not common knowledge that if a black guy is perceived as a threat he's as good as dead.

Exactly! What the hell's wrong with you, PP, trying to support your point with facts?! Everyone knows all cops are racist!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, sometimes the police were trigger-happy, and other times their instincts were correct in dealing with a threatening ex-felon. The problem comes about when black people see every single shooting as wrong (and then riot in the streets).

The other problem is that this puts an unacceptable amount of power in the hands of black people defying police and threatening them with a gun. A cop is now going to be more reluctant to defend himself against some gun-yielding criminal because he knows....no matter how much a cop's life is in danger, if the criminal is black, all hell will break loose if he defends himself.

All hell doesn't have to break loose if police simply utilize the same tactics and temperament that they use when dealing with white criminals as they do when dealing with black criminals.
I know its tempting to think its just sheer luck or that its some kind of Walt Disney magic pixie dust that a certain segment of criminals are sprinkled with that enables police to somehow manage to find a way to apprehend gun-yielding white criminals without killing them but I don't buy that bullcrap.
I think if police used the same tactics that they do on white armed suspects or if police actually made an effort to deescalate situations the same way they do with white armed suspects instead of jumping at the opportunity to open fire when engaging black guys there'd be no hell breaking loose cause nobody would be dead!

There's that racist attitude again. The cops didn't "jump at the opportunity to open fire on a black guy." They warned him 12 times to drop his weapon. All the violent, ex-felon with the stolen gun had to do is obey the law. The cops acted correctly.

I wasn't talking about this one incident I was talking in broader terms about the overall propensity for cops across the country to blow away black guys with guns but somehow the same cops across the country always manage to magically apprehend white guys with guns.

That's not true. Between Jan 2015 and July 2016, 732 white people were shot and killed by police. (WaPo)

I appreciate the stat-hunting but let's not go there. In this day and age its so easy to jump on Google and find numbers to support practically any argument - I too could quite easily grab some stats that reinforce my assertion that cops by and large are more likely to blow away a black guy than a white guy - but again, let's not go there. Let's rely on simple common knowledge and though its risky, some simple everyday perception. Because that's what prompted the uprisings to begin with isn't it? Perception? People weren't up in arms because of some numbers they saw flashing across their screen or because they heard about some statistics - they were up in arms because of their common knowledge based on their everyday observations and perceptions that white guys don't get blown away arbitrarily by cops. They get shot in the shoulder or the leg after lengthy standoffs maybe, but ultimately white guys get arrested more times than not when they pose a threat. Same don't apply for black guys and that pisses people off. So whatever it is - whatever tricks of the trade cops are using to disarm white guys and whatever secret decoder ring means of communication cops are using to talk to white criminals and deescalate situations...they need to try utilizing those same techniques and tactics on black folks a little more frequently so its not common knowledge that if a black guy is perceived as a threat he's as good as dead.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, sometimes the police were trigger-happy, and other times their instincts were correct in dealing with a threatening ex-felon. The problem comes about when black people see every single shooting as wrong (and then riot in the streets).

The other problem is that this puts an unacceptable amount of power in the hands of black people defying police and threatening them with a gun. A cop is now going to be more reluctant to defend himself against some gun-yielding criminal because he knows....no matter how much a cop's life is in danger, if the criminal is black, all hell will break loose if he defends himself.

All hell doesn't have to break loose if police simply utilize the same tactics and temperament that they use when dealing with white criminals as they do when dealing with black criminals.
I know its tempting to think its just sheer luck or that its some kind of Walt Disney magic pixie dust that a certain segment of criminals are sprinkled with that enables police to somehow manage to find a way to apprehend gun-yielding white criminals without killing them but I don't buy that bullcrap.
I think if police used the same tactics that they do on white armed suspects or if police actually made an effort to deescalate situations the same way they do with white armed suspects instead of jumping at the opportunity to open fire when engaging black guys there'd be no hell breaking loose cause nobody would be dead!

There's that racist attitude again. The cops didn't "jump at the opportunity to open fire on a black guy." They warned him 12 times to drop his weapon. All the violent, ex-felon with the stolen gun had to do is obey the law. The cops acted correctly.

I wasn't talking about this one incident I was talking in broader terms about the overall propensity for cops across the country to blow away black guys with guns but somehow the same cops across the country always manage to magically apprehend white guys with guns.

That's not true. Between Jan 2015 and July 2016, 732 white people were shot and killed by police. (WaPo)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, sometimes the police were trigger-happy, and other times their instincts were correct in dealing with a threatening ex-felon. The problem comes about when black people see every single shooting as wrong (and then riot in the streets).

The other problem is that this puts an unacceptable amount of power in the hands of black people defying police and threatening them with a gun. A cop is now going to be more reluctant to defend himself against some gun-yielding criminal because he knows....no matter how much a cop's life is in danger, if the criminal is black, all hell will break loose if he defends himself.

All hell doesn't have to break loose if police simply utilize the same tactics and temperament that they use when dealing with white criminals as they do when dealing with black criminals.
I know its tempting to think its just sheer luck or that its some kind of Walt Disney magic pixie dust that a certain segment of criminals are sprinkled with that enables police to somehow manage to find a way to apprehend gun-yielding white criminals without killing them but I don't buy that bullcrap.
I think if police used the same tactics that they do on white armed suspects or if police actually made an effort to deescalate situations the same way they do with white armed suspects instead of jumping at the opportunity to open fire when engaging black guys there'd be no hell breaking loose cause nobody would be dead!

There's that racist attitude again. The cops didn't "jump at the opportunity to open fire on a black guy." They warned him 12 times to drop his weapon. All the violent, ex-felon with the stolen gun had to do is obey the law. The cops acted correctly.

I wasn't talking about this one incident I was talking in broader terms about the overall propensity for cops across the country to blow away black guys with guns but somehow the same cops across the country always manage to magically apprehend white guys with guns.

I see the broader point, but my point did have to do with that particular incident, e.g., that even in an incident where the police act appropriately, the rioters jump to a conclusion before the facts are in and cause all sorts of damage. Knowing that, a cop may be reluctant to defend himself against - in this instance - a violent ex-felon. I would be more sympathetic to the cause if a) rioters protested peacefully without destroying innocent people's businesses, and b) they would wait until the facts are instead of automatically assuming that when there is a deadly encounter between a black guy and a cop (black or white), it's always the cop's fault. But I do agree with you that there are instances where the police acted inexhusbly, such as that NY case with the guy with the cigarettes (Garner, I think.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, sometimes the police were trigger-happy, and other times their instincts were correct in dealing with a threatening ex-felon. The problem comes about when black people see every single shooting as wrong (and then riot in the streets).

The other problem is that this puts an unacceptable amount of power in the hands of black people defying police and threatening them with a gun. A cop is now going to be more reluctant to defend himself against some gun-yielding criminal because he knows....no matter how much a cop's life is in danger, if the criminal is black, all hell will break loose if he defends himself.

All hell doesn't have to break loose if police simply utilize the same tactics and temperament that they use when dealing with white criminals as they do when dealing with black criminals.
I know its tempting to think its just sheer luck or that its some kind of Walt Disney magic pixie dust that a certain segment of criminals are sprinkled with that enables police to somehow manage to find a way to apprehend gun-yielding white criminals without killing them but I don't buy that bullcrap.
I think if police used the same tactics that they do on white armed suspects or if police actually made an effort to deescalate situations the same way they do with white armed suspects instead of jumping at the opportunity to open fire when engaging black guys there'd be no hell breaking loose cause nobody would be dead!

There's that racist attitude again. The cops didn't "jump at the opportunity to open fire on a black guy." They warned him 12 times to drop his weapon. All the violent, ex-felon with the stolen gun had to do is obey the law. The cops acted correctly.

I wasn't talking about this one incident I was talking in broader terms about the overall propensity for cops across the country to blow away black guys with guns but somehow the same cops across the country always manage to magically apprehend white guys with guns.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, sometimes the police were trigger-happy, and other times their instincts were correct in dealing with a threatening ex-felon. The problem comes about when black people see every single shooting as wrong (and then riot in the streets).

The other problem is that this puts an unacceptable amount of power in the hands of black people defying police and threatening them with a gun. A cop is now going to be more reluctant to defend himself against some gun-yielding criminal because he knows....no matter how much a cop's life is in danger, if the criminal is black, all hell will break loose if he defends himself.

All hell doesn't have to break loose if police simply utilize the same tactics and temperament that they use when dealing with white criminals as they do when dealing with black criminals.
I know its tempting to think its just sheer luck or that its some kind of Walt Disney magic pixie dust that a certain segment of criminals are sprinkled with that enables police to somehow manage to find a way to apprehend gun-yielding white criminals without killing them but I don't buy that bullcrap.
I think if police used the same tactics that they do on white armed suspects or if police actually made an effort to deescalate situations the same way they do with white armed suspects instead of jumping at the opportunity to open fire when engaging black guys there'd be no hell breaking loose cause nobody would be dead!

There's that racist attitude again. The cops didn't "jump at the opportunity to open fire on a black guy." They warned him 12 times to drop his weapon. All the violent, ex-felon with the stolen gun had to do is obey the law. The cops acted correctly.

Anonymous wrote:Look, sometimes the police were trigger-happy, and other times their instincts were correct in dealing with a threatening ex-felon. The problem comes about when black people see every single shooting as wrong (and then riot in the streets).

The other problem is that this puts an unacceptable amount of power in the hands of black people defying police and threatening them with a gun. A cop is now going to be more reluctant to defend himself against some gun-yielding criminal because he knows....no matter how much a cop's life is in danger, if the criminal is black, all hell will break loose if he defends himself.

All hell doesn't have to break loose if police simply utilize the same tactics and temperament that they use when dealing with white criminals as they do when dealing with black criminals.
I know its tempting to think its just sheer luck or that its some kind of Walt Disney magic pixie dust that a certain segment of criminals are sprinkled with that enables police to somehow manage to find a way to apprehend gun-yielding white criminals without killing them but I don't buy that bullcrap.
I think if police used the same tactics that they do on white armed suspects or if police actually made an effort to deescalate situations the same way they do with white armed suspects instead of jumping at the opportunity to open fire when engaging black guys there'd be no hell breaking loose cause nobody would be dead!

Look, sometimes the police were trigger-happy, and other times their instincts were correct in dealing with a threatening ex-felon. The problem comes about when black people see every single shooting as wrong (and then riot in the streets).

The other problem is that this puts an unacceptable amount of power in the hands of black people defying police and threatening them with a gun. A cop is now going to be more reluctant to defend himself against some gun-yielding criminal because he knows....no matter how much a cop's life is in danger, if the criminal is black, all hell will break loose if he defends himself.