Anonymous wrote:OK, it's been 12 hours since the crash.

Not one word, not one peep out of DoD.

Where the hell is Hegseth, or at a minimum, his "crackerjack" experienced spokesman John Ullyot?

Ullyot had no problem getting the word out that they were stripping Milley of clearances just a few hours earlier.

Be he's mum on this???

They are all incompetent criminals

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. It is the helicopter but mistakes happen. The issue is not allowing human error to impact devastatingly. Do you can't let pilots take the responsibility of hopefully seeing everything that may impede their flights. You need to ensure other safety measures like providing them with specific 411 on where the prob may be and/or tech to help do same. Europe does not allow these incidents to happen for example.

There's never been a crash in Europe?

European pilots often turn down landing runways by American ATC at airports when they feel it's risky to land there at night. They know that IS aviation is set up for visual approaches. European flights may crash but not because they crashed into a helicopter flying near it mid flight after ATC asks if they see they are on a collision course for it you idiot!!! Obviously this system is not safe. You do not let planes in big cities flying at night near heavily trafficked airspace to depend solely on line of sight to approach. You just don't. It's too easy to miss something because lights are easily confused. I come from a family working in aviation.

This is tragic

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know whether helicopters crossing are supposed to wait for an affirmative okay to cross from the ATC, or whether they can cross unless told NOT to cross by ATC?

This does seem like a crazy intersection to me.

Military missions have different rules. They also are on different frequencies (although monitoring tower.) This is their normal route. It intersects the circle to land pattern for the short runway. It’s a dumb as crap situation and has been a disaster waiting to happen for years. Has nothing to do with how many flights there are at DCA or politics. The scopes are out and show this was a developing situation that ATC didn’t deconflict. And the helo pilot didn’t maintain visual separation. This was completely avoidable and while claiming trump or musk might feel good this one isn’t their fault.

The helo was flying too high.

Not only flying too high, but the helo appeared to move away from the eastern shore of the river (the normal helicopter flight path) and moved more toward the center of the river. Helo pilot was clearly confused about where he should be positioned.

Anonymous wrote:The was an accident waiting to happen. The airport is so congested because the technology allows the airplanes to fly with very little separation. They were landing at DCA like in a conga line.
Clearly, the helicopter pilot was seeing a different plane.

This person has absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know whether helicopters crossing are supposed to wait for an affirmative okay to cross from the ATC, or whether they can cross unless told NOT to cross by ATC?

This does seem like a crazy intersection to me.

Military missions have different rules. They also are on different frequencies (although monitoring tower.) This is their normal route. It intersects the circle to land pattern for the short runway. It’s a dumb as crap situation and has been a disaster waiting to happen for years. Has nothing to do with how many flights there are at DCA or politics. The scopes are out and show this was a developing situation that ATC didn’t deconflict. And the helo pilot didn’t maintain visual separation. This was completely avoidable and while claiming trump or musk might feel good this one isn’t their fault.

It has everything to do with more flights. The helicopter pilot was confused because there were three planes up there with him. He thought he was visualizing the one ATC asked about. But oops! There was another plane up there he couldn’t see! The industry knew this was just a matter of time, but they wanted to keep adding new flights to the busiest runway in the nation.

https://www.protectregionalairports.com/2024/01/26/dca-is-still-the-busiest-runway-in-the-nation/

Where are you getting info that the pilot was "confused" -- how could he not see the plane he was literally flying toward for most of the end of its flight path?

I agree about the bad flight path and the overcrowding of the airport, but this made up narrative makes not sense in this situation.

Because on the ATC recording, they ask the helicopter if he sees the plane approaching and he says yes. Unfortunately ATC and the helicopter were not referring to the same plane.

I thought he did not respond either time.

Also don’t know how far before impact ATC said anything.

OK, it's been 12 hours since the crash.

Not one word, not one peep out of DoD.

Where the hell is Hegseth, or at a minimum, his "crackerjack" experienced spokesman John Ullyot?

Ullyot had no problem getting the word out that they were stripping Milley of clearances just a few hours earlier.

Be he's mum on this???

Anonymous wrote:They keep sticking to the plan to reopen DCA at 11 but with so much recovery still to do will they really?

I doubt it. Rescheduled my incoming flight for tomorrow.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden and their administration signed off on the added flights a year ago. Again the blame game doesn't work. This is a tragedy some changes will need to happen like making sure helos and airplanes are on the same frequency , this could have happened with a police or even news chopper.

The number of flights wasn't the issue here. Helicopter routes shouldn't be so close to the runway approach. Especially at night.

Why was the helicopter so close to the plane

It didn’t see it approaching. There were a couple other close by planes they were visualizing and when ATC asked them if they say it, it wasn’t clear which plane they were referring to

how do you know this? why wouldn't it be looking/seeing the plane that was directly in front of them?

Unlike jets, helicopters can fly straight up and down. While I don’t know, it is my thought that since the helicopter thought ATC was talking about another plane, it was visualizing that one. The plane they hit was not in their forward or peripheral visual field, rather it was directly above or below the helicopter and they ended up flying directly down or up into it.

but is that what happened? Or am I totally misunderstanding the video? It looks like the plane hit was directly in their forward visual field. What are you seeing that I am missing?

It could have been directly in front of them, but also could be that the helo was slightly below the plane but not enough to completely clear under it. So, the helo wings (top of helo) hit the side of the plane at bottom of plane. Either the plane dropped altitude more than was expected, or the pilot got higher than expected, or the pilot just misjudged the plane’s expected altitude as it was landing. So by the time they arrived to the same point, the helo ended up hitting the plane.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know whether helicopters crossing are supposed to wait for an affirmative okay to cross from the ATC, or whether they can cross unless told NOT to cross by ATC?

This does seem like a crazy intersection to me.

Military missions have different rules. They also are on different frequencies (although monitoring tower.) This is their normal route. It intersects the circle to land pattern for the short runway. It’s a dumb as crap situation and has been a disaster waiting to happen for years. Has nothing to do with how many flights there are at DCA or politics. The scopes are out and show this was a developing situation that ATC didn’t deconflict. And the helo pilot didn’t maintain visual separation. This was completely avoidable and while claiming trump or musk might feel good this one isn’t their fault.

It has everything to do with more flights. The helicopter pilot was confused because there were three planes up there with him. He thought he was visualizing the one ATC asked about. But oops! There was another plane up there he couldn’t see! The industry knew this was just a matter of time, but they wanted to keep adding new flights to the busiest runway in the nation.

https://www.protectregionalairports.com/2024/01/26/dca-is-still-the-busiest-runway-in-the-nation/

Where are you getting info that the pilot was "confused" -- how could he not see the plane he was literally flying toward for most of the end of its flight path?

I agree about the bad flight path and the overcrowding of the airport, but this made up narrative makes not sense in this situation.

Because on the ATC recording, they ask the helicopter if he sees the plane approaching and he says yes. Unfortunately ATC and the helicopter were not referring to the same plane.

I asked a pilot and he said no way, the other plane was too far away for this error.

Also pilot.

Not at night. Landing lights allow you to see an aircraft many miles away. We’ve all seen this when looking up at the night sky versus day time.

My bet is what the PP said. They were both talking about a different aircraft.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know whether helicopters crossing are supposed to wait for an affirmative okay to cross from the ATC, or whether they can cross unless told NOT to cross by ATC?

This does seem like a crazy intersection to me.

Military missions have different rules. They also are on different frequencies (although monitoring tower.) This is their normal route. It intersects the circle to land pattern for the short runway. It’s a dumb as crap situation and has been a disaster waiting to happen for years. Has nothing to do with how many flights there are at DCA or politics. The scopes are out and show this was a developing situation that ATC didn’t deconflict. And the helo pilot didn’t maintain visual separation. This was completely avoidable and while claiming trump or musk might feel good this one isn’t their fault.

It has everything to do with more flights. The helicopter pilot was confused because there were three planes up there with him. He thought he was visualizing the one ATC asked about. But oops! There was another plane up there he couldn’t see! The industry knew this was just a matter of time, but they wanted to keep adding new flights to the busiest runway in the nation.

https://www.protectregionalairports.com/2024/01/26/dca-is-still-the-busiest-runway-in-the-nation/

Where are you getting info that the pilot was "confused" -- how could he not see the plane he was literally flying toward for most of the end of its flight path?

I agree about the bad flight path and the overcrowding of the airport, but this made up narrative makes not sense in this situation.

DP. Sounds like the helicopter had visual contact with the other plane taking off that is seen in the crash video. They likely hit the plane at the wing so the airline pilots had no idea it was coming and no time to react.

You are looking at the video from the POV of the Kennedy center; look at the flight path visual. Your scenario makes no sense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden and their administration signed off on the added flights a year ago. Again the blame game doesn't work. This is a tragedy some changes will need to happen like making sure helos and airplanes are on the same frequency , this could have happened with a police or even news chopper.

The number of flights wasn't the issue here. Helicopter routes shouldn't be so close to the runway approach. Especially at night.

Why was the helicopter so close to the plane

It was focused on other planes and thought it was Ok. Poor comms. Dark at night.

You are guessing. But that seems implausible given the flight path and the fact that they had to be looking straight at the plane before impact. It seems impossible for them to not see the brightly lit plane they flying toward.

Who gets to listen to the dark box and wtf was really going in or discussing in the cockpit of the helo the last 2 mins of its river trip?

The black box here will be useless - crooked Trump admin will make it say whatever they want it to say so they can get back to focusing on banning trans and shipping immigrants to Guantanamo.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden and their administration signed off on the added flights a year ago. Again the blame game doesn't work. This is a tragedy some changes will need to happen like making sure helos and airplanes are on the same frequency , this could have happened with a police or even news chopper.

The number of flights wasn't the issue here. Helicopter routes shouldn't be so close to the runway approach. Especially at night.

Why was the helicopter so close to the plane

It didn’t see it approaching. There were a couple other close by planes they were visualizing and when ATC asked them if they say it, it wasn’t clear which plane they were referring to

how do you know this? why wouldn't it be looking/seeing the plane that was directly in front of them?

Unlike jets, helicopters can fly straight up and down. While I don’t know, it is my thought that since the helicopter thought ATC was talking about another plane, it was visualizing that one. The plane they hit was not in their forward or peripheral visual field, rather it was directly above or below the helicopter and they ended up flying directly down or up into it.

but is that what happened? Or am I totally misunderstanding the video? It looks like the plane hit was directly in their forward visual field. What are you seeing that I am missing?

Plane flew down and at 350-400 feet hit down on the speedy helicopter. Helicopter was lateraling fast but should have been at 200 feet st that position with jet flying over it (still not ideal given it was landing and dropping altitude).

The was an accident waiting to happen. The airport is so congested because the technology allows the airplanes to fly with very little separation. They were landing at DCA like in a conga line.
Clearly, the helicopter pilot was seeing a different plane.

They keep sticking to the plan to reopen DCA at 11 but with so much recovery still to do will they really?