Joan had the audacity to talk back to Martha Stewart. Cry harder, Joan. Martha does not care.
https://www.instyle.com/joan-vassos-golden-bachelorette-martha-stewart-guys-not-hot-comment-8734109

Pascal is the ultimate winner. I think he was very genuine with his emotions and faced some hard things. Telling Joan the truth was the kindest thing to do. He’s not leaving her with vague worries and questions. He is not in love with, will not be in love with her, but loves her as a friend. That bonding ceremony was really a cold move by the producers. I hope Pascal finds a companion who can be a partner and not a helpless waif, which is really what Joan wants to be.

Chock so creepy, so self absorbed, so much not going to leave Wichita.

🚩TRO Guy🚩 I still find him arrogant but I think he benefits from Chock being so overtly alpha arrogant. He’s very boring to me as well.

I’ve been assuming Joan will choose Chock, but I’m wondering if the edit isn’t a con. Joan is a lifelong Marylander and she has made it really clear she’s not leaving. Guy is definitely more portable, and even though I suspect Joan’s MAGA, I don’t think she’d be able to tolerate Wichita MAGA life, even for 1-2 weeks a month. I’m giving 80% odds to Guy. Guy likely has more money but I doubt either of them would marry without a serious pre-nup. Joan’s husband died before sentencing but I’m sure he had enormous legal fees. Joan’s presenting that she has plenty of money but it’s impossible to know. Even with a fairly high net worth the legal fees, and the loss of his earning power for another 5-10 years may have made a significant dent. They had 4 kids to put through college. It may be down to whether he had a large life insurance policy. I guess we’ll never know.

Also, why Nancy? Why not one of the more interesting and expressive women? The show runners have just made such bad decisions all the way through. I think they must not have done good research about why people watched the first season. I’m going to finish the season but I’m wondering if they haven’t ruined “Golden.” Between Gerry being a con artist and the baffling choices to make this season as dull as possible, I just don’t know if there will be an appetite for more.

The legal issues may not impact her but I bet she doesn’t have much money. I think she had to sell her house. He was probably over leveraged and in financial trouble.

I think I read somewhere that theb egal troubles ended with his death. Seems ridiculous if it can be proven that he essentially stole taxpayer $$.
So we all paid for her surgeries!

Anonymous wrote:She will end up with Guy. He’s sweet. Handsome. Makes decent money I assume. They seem to like each other. Chock may be too intense for her. She seemed to like the area where Guy lives. It’s a toss up. Which is I guess why the producers have presented this way. They may want us all to assume it’s Chock and then surprise us when she picks Guy. Also, anyone have evidence of exactly how wealthy she was or is ?

I like Guy best for her but she doesn't seem as into him? The Lake Tahoe segment was gorgeous. I'd live there! Joan is still working and her dh was in a lot of legal/ financial trouble before dying, so who knows how wealthy she really is.

She will end up with Guy. He’s sweet. Handsome. Makes decent money I assume. They seem to like each other. Chock may be too intense for her. She seemed to like the area where Guy lives. It’s a toss up. Which is I guess why the producers have presented this way. They may want us all to assume it’s Chock and then surprise us when she picks Guy. Also, anyone have evidence of exactly how wealthy she was or is ?

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Anonymous wrote:The Pascal portion was pretty heartbreaking. He should have left earlier on but I think he just got carried away by the fun with the guys, the excitement, and wasn't really thinking fully until that weird ceremony at the beach (not a cool move by producers!) Meanwhile I feel like he was by far her favorite. Also didn't like what she had to say about her dh making everything an adventure when she clearly meant material goods and fancy travel, especially since he was a conman.

I agree, she liked him the best.

I like when Chock asks her a question and then he just talks and talks. She says she wonders if he's too good to be true because she senses what we all do, he's fake.

Yes, I wouldn't trust Chock. Then there is Guy, but he is so guarded and a little stiff like Joan. I don't think she has a good match there.

Anonymous wrote:The Pascal portion was pretty heartbreaking. He should have left earlier on but I think he just got carried away by the fun with the guys, the excitement, and wasn't really thinking fully until that weird ceremony at the beach (not a cool move by producers!) Meanwhile I feel like he was by far her favorite. Also didn't like what she had to say about her dh making everything an adventure when she clearly meant material goods and fancy travel, especially since he was a conman.

The publicity that this has brought to Pascal's hair salon in Chicago is immeasurable. Women of a certain age will flock there. Heck, I might even check it out the next time I'm in Chicago:

https://pascalpourelle.com/pages/salon

Anonymous wrote:The Pascal portion was pretty heartbreaking. He should have left earlier on but I think he just got carried away by the fun with the guys, the excitement, and wasn't really thinking fully until that weird ceremony at the beach (not a cool move by producers!) Meanwhile I feel like he was by far her favorite. Also didn't like what she had to say about her dh making everything an adventure when she clearly meant material goods and fancy travel, especially since he was a conman.

I agree, she liked him the best.

I like when Chock asks her a question and then he just talks and talks. She says she wonders if he's too good to be true because she senses what we all do, he's fake.

The Pascal portion was pretty heartbreaking. He should have left earlier on but I think he just got carried away by the fun with the guys, the excitement, and wasn't really thinking fully until that weird ceremony at the beach (not a cool move by producers!) Meanwhile I feel like he was by far her favorite. Also didn't like what she had to say about her dh making everything an adventure when she clearly meant material goods and fancy travel, especially since he was a conman.

Anonymous wrote:Regarding Joan's looks and cosmetic work...

Attractive people are attractive, and some cosmetic work done by a talented professional can enhance it or keep it up as they age.
In my view, Joan was never a beautiful woman and that's why she doesn't look good now. The quality of the work she's had done could be an issue, but given her wealth and dedication to trying to better her appearance, I don't think that's the problem. There simply wasn't much there to start with, and even the best surgeons can't make an unattractive person beautiful. In a world where thin is seen as beautiful, Joan was wise to lean in to that. And I think she was cast primarily due to her thinness and sort of veneer of attractiveness that you realize is just a veneer when you watch her at any length. And let me be clear: most people aren't any more attractive than Joan and there's nothing wrong with being an average looking person. But it's a pity that she doesn't seem to have invested in any other part of herself because real beauty simply cannot be created and bought.

Well said.

Regarding Joan's looks and cosmetic work...

Attractive people are attractive, and some cosmetic work done by a talented professional can enhance it or keep it up as they age.
In my view, Joan was never a beautiful woman and that's why she doesn't look good now. The quality of the work she's had done could be an issue, but given her wealth and dedication to trying to better her appearance, I don't think that's the problem. There simply wasn't much there to start with, and even the best surgeons can't make an unattractive person beautiful. In a world where thin is seen as beautiful, Joan was wise to lean in to that. And I think she was cast primarily due to her thinness and sort of veneer of attractiveness that you realize is just a veneer when you watch her at any length. And let me be clear: most people aren't any more attractive than Joan and there's nothing wrong with being an average looking person. But it's a pity that she doesn't seem to have invested in any other part of herself because real beauty simply cannot be created and bought.

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Anonymous wrote:I don't think its really social pressures. The majority of women age naturally despite also living in society. I think its just vanity. There are vain men and vain men and if you have a lot of excess cash, then people use it to buy expensive brand items and to do work on their own bodies and faces. Having a cosmetic procedure is like buying a Birkin bag.

I don't think there's anything wrong with doing some "up keep" with the face/body/hair as you age. If that means pulling up the jowls b/c they sag, or pulling up the breasts or belly for the same reason -- go for it! But, my goodness, it's a shame that people pay good money to look like they have HAD WORK DONE. That's not supposed to be the goal. I'm not sure if it is the customer demanding extraordinary measures of the surgeon, or if the surgeon is fleecing people who have the means to pay -- and the surgeon is telling the client that she looks great when she actually looks plastic and un-real. Either way, the client/customer HAS to know when to stop trying to look 25 when they are actually 55. It never turns out well. LESS is MORE.

Joan looked SO MUCH better in her natural state. When you lose your muscle functions/facial movement, it's passed into "too much" territory.

You think she looked so much better "in her natural state" because she was much younger in those photos. Most men, certainly older ones, are going to rate women who have had work done like Joan's as more attractive than women the same age who have had none.

You're probably correct, and that's sad.

Agreed. Look how quickly Gerry cut lose the women who were closer to his age and/or aging the most naturally.

He actually didn't.

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Anonymous wrote:Leslie posted a picture of her with Jordan in her Instagram stories.

Matching jerseys too, hmm. Hope they're just having fun. He doesn't seem like he ever got over his divorce.

They seem like such a better match than he and Joan. Both sexy Jewish midwest people, not cookie cutter conservative like Joan.

Agree, would be the only hot couple to come out of this franchise.

Y'all think Jordan is "hot"? What? No.

I’ve heard him referred to as hot more than any of the other men.

He is the least attractive; Chock, Pascal, and Guy are all better looking than Jordan. By quite a bit.

It's almost like it's subjective or something!

Anonymous wrote:A phrase no one on Bachelor or Bachelorette has ever before said...

I hope I have the Fantasy Suites so we can get in some good conversations!

-- Chock.

Actually, many past leads have talked about how FSs are about being able to talk without cameras.

Anonymous wrote:It's weird that Pascal's date included the bonding ceremony versus a fun outing like the other guys. It seemed a bit inappropriate.

If he wasn't into her at all, he probably should have eliminated himself being going this far versus taking a spot from another guy.

From the previews, looks like Joan is wearing another cleavage dress for the men tell all episode.

Not weird because all of this is manipulated by the producers. This is how they wanted it to play out and why they didn’t have them in a fun date. Can’t you all see how scripted this really is ? They kept Pascal in the mix so people would continue to tune in and stay curious. Joan found him attractive - who wouldn’t- but you can see she wasn’t really into him … she definitely likes Chock. She wants a manly man who takes charge and also has money and family values too. And they hit it off from day one. The producers had to keep the show going even though it was probably evident she had decided on Chock early on.