Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't Safeway and Giant at one point have stores in those wards? I think the reason they left was because of theft. Hard to justify a store if more money walks out the doors than goes in the cash register.

Now a seasonal produce stand, I have no clue why there are none. Seems like some local farmer could set up a stand to sell their fruit and veggies. I guess the DC government would want their share, that's probably why there are none.

Yes, loss prevention. Stores cannot be forced to operate as charities..I always thought DC could do FAR more, like offering to open police substations in their entry ways, and other safety minded "partnerships" to encourage these stores to open. Instead, DC got very demandy with WalMart about employment and other perks the city wanted when they were thinking of locating in Washington. If it's simply market driven, no one will open in a demandy city in areas with rampant and tolerated theft. It's also very difficult to apprehend and prosecute for shoplifting, especially in our current world.

It’s fascinating to see a city grandfather in subsidized housing, like what’s happening at Res 13, to counter gentrification and ensure poverty can persist in a desirable neighborhood, so as not to “displace” local residents. As if the area should be preserved in amber for only certain protected classes of people. Most people have to move, but not some.

Anyway, it’s also fascinating to see people struggle to grasp that poor people straight up make bad decisions because they’re poor. They don’t want a damn Whole Foods. They can’t afford that sht. Generally, nor do they possess the wherewithal to understand how to eat mostly vegetables and less unhealthy processed sht. Stores have tried to make a go of it and sell healthy food around Anacostia and Benming and Langton carver and the only way that food takes off is if the area is sufficiently gentrified. Except it’s evil to gentrify, so it’s easier to look for a billion nonsense reasons why there are “food deserts”. It’s because of theft and bad choices. We need to just let areas change. We need to let the market work as it should even if people are priced out. No one has a right to be anywhere forever and it’s annoying to hear people complain about the sadness of poverty and being pushed out and blah blah. Let people move where they can afford to live and maybe that will encourage them to work harder and so forth. Instead of trying to grandfather in the same families to live in projects with subsidized rent for 50 years. I know this place is populated heavily by well intentioned housewives, but I live and grew up in the inner city in DC. It’s way better with gentrification.

Ahh the typical poor people are stupid and lazy. Got it.

Not the immigrant poor – just the cycle of poverty poor. But then again, most immigrant poor live in the cheaper suburbs and are busting their butt at three jobs and their kids go on to college in ome kind of stem or immediate job producing field.

— neighbor of these immigrants and listener to their stories

In our society we are obsessive about not blaming the "victim" for anything, but that won't help us address the US's problem with urban poverty and poor nutrition.

Societies all over the world have developed diets that have allowed people to survive and eat well on very limited budgets, but much of this knowledge has been lost in US inner cities. That is why so many immigrant families eat so much better on equally limited budgets.

Just one example, we have had a series of au pairs to care for our kids. One of the first was from Brazil. We told her that we would buy whatever food she wanted, just add it to our grocery list.

Dried beans
Rice
Frozen tilapia
Frozen chicken
Sausage
Various greens, various vegetables.

Every meal she made for our kids was some combination of rice, beans, a little meat, and some vegetable/greens. (and it was what she ate herself)


She was able to feed herself and our kids for a few dollars a day, and it was nutritious healthy food.

We just need to hire au pairs for everyone. Problem solved.

What does it say about your argument that you are limited to playing dumb?

The point is obvious, with a little effort and a little knowledge it is easy to feed a family healthy nutritious food. I have lived in the third world and see what real poverty looks like. Skinny kids in rags collecting trash on the street to bring home (or sell) as fuel.

US urban poverty is a totally different type of problem. People are paying more money to eat worse out of ignorance.

Go on Walmart.com and try pricing it out yourself. 8lbs dried pinto beans, $6. 10lbs rice, $4.60. 10lbs frozen chicken breast, $22.50. 12oz Frozen Kale, $1. 12oz Frozen collard greens, $1. 20oz frozen pepper and onion blend, $2.33. 3lb bag onions, $3.

22.50+6+4.6+1+1+2.33+3= $40.43

You could easily feed a family of 4 for a week on this. It wouldn't be gourmet but it would be healthy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should we bring back home ec?

Did it ever leave?

Yes?

The very concept of Home Ec is heterosexist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't Safeway and Giant at one point have stores in those wards? I think the reason they left was because of theft. Hard to justify a store if more money walks out the doors than goes in the cash register.

Now a seasonal produce stand, I have no clue why there are none. Seems like some local farmer could set up a stand to sell their fruit and veggies. I guess the DC government would want their share, that's probably why there are none.

Yes, loss prevention. Stores cannot be forced to operate as charities..I always thought DC could do FAR more, like offering to open police substations in their entry ways, and other safety minded "partnerships" to encourage these stores to open. Instead, DC got very demandy with WalMart about employment and other perks the city wanted when they were thinking of locating in Washington. If it's simply market driven, no one will open in a demandy city in areas with rampant and tolerated theft. It's also very difficult to apprehend and prosecute for shoplifting, especially in our current world.

It’s fascinating to see a city grandfather in subsidized housing, like what’s happening at Res 13, to counter gentrification and ensure poverty can persist in a desirable neighborhood, so as not to “displace” local residents. As if the area should be preserved in amber for only certain protected classes of people. Most people have to move, but not some.

Anyway, it’s also fascinating to see people struggle to grasp that poor people straight up make bad decisions because they’re poor. They don’t want a damn Whole Foods. They can’t afford that sht. Generally, nor do they possess the wherewithal to understand how to eat mostly vegetables and less unhealthy processed sht. Stores have tried to make a go of it and sell healthy food around Anacostia and Benming and Langton carver and the only way that food takes off is if the area is sufficiently gentrified. Except it’s evil to gentrify, so it’s easier to look for a billion nonsense reasons why there are “food deserts”. It’s because of theft and bad choices. We need to just let areas change. We need to let the market work as it should even if people are priced out. No one has a right to be anywhere forever and it’s annoying to hear people complain about the sadness of poverty and being pushed out and blah blah. Let people move where they can afford to live and maybe that will encourage them to work harder and so forth. Instead of trying to grandfather in the same families to live in projects with subsidized rent for 50 years. I know this place is populated heavily by well intentioned housewives, but I live and grew up in the inner city in DC. It’s way better with gentrification.

Ahh the typical poor people are stupid and lazy. Got it.

Not the immigrant poor – just the cycle of poverty poor. But then again, most immigrant poor live in the cheaper suburbs and are busting their butt at three jobs and their kids go on to college in ome kind of stem or immediate job producing field.

— neighbor of these immigrants and listener to their stories

In our society we are obsessive about not blaming the "victim" for anything, but that won't help us address the US's problem with urban poverty and poor nutrition.

Societies all over the world have developed diets that have allowed people to survive and eat well on very limited budgets, but much of this knowledge has been lost in US inner cities. That is why so many immigrant families eat so much better on equally limited budgets.

Just one example, we have had a series of au pairs to care for our kids. One of the first was from Brazil. We told her that we would buy whatever food she wanted, just add it to our grocery list.

Dried beans
Rice
Frozen tilapia
Frozen chicken
Sausage
Various greens, various vegetables.

Every meal she made for our kids was some combination of rice, beans, a little meat, and some vegetable/greens. (and it was what she ate herself)


She was able to feed herself and our kids for a few dollars a day, and it was nutritious healthy food.

We just need to hire au pairs for everyone. Problem solved.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't Safeway and Giant at one point have stores in those wards? I think the reason they left was because of theft. Hard to justify a store if more money walks out the doors than goes in the cash register.

Now a seasonal produce stand, I have no clue why there are none. Seems like some local farmer could set up a stand to sell their fruit and veggies. I guess the DC government would want their share, that's probably why there are none.

Yes, loss prevention. Stores cannot be forced to operate as charities..I always thought DC could do FAR more, like offering to open police substations in their entry ways, and other safety minded "partnerships" to encourage these stores to open. Instead, DC got very demandy with WalMart about employment and other perks the city wanted when they were thinking of locating in Washington. If it's simply market driven, no one will open in a demandy city in areas with rampant and tolerated theft. It's also very difficult to apprehend and prosecute for shoplifting, especially in our current world.

It’s fascinating to see a city grandfather in subsidized housing, like what’s happening at Res 13, to counter gentrification and ensure poverty can persist in a desirable neighborhood, so as not to “displace” local residents. As if the area should be preserved in amber for only certain protected classes of people. Most people have to move, but not some.

Anyway, it’s also fascinating to see people struggle to grasp that poor people straight up make bad decisions because they’re poor. They don’t want a damn Whole Foods. They can’t afford that sht. Generally, nor do they possess the wherewithal to understand how to eat mostly vegetables and less unhealthy processed sht. Stores have tried to make a go of it and sell healthy food around Anacostia and Benming and Langton carver and the only way that food takes off is if the area is sufficiently gentrified. Except it’s evil to gentrify, so it’s easier to look for a billion nonsense reasons why there are “food deserts”. It’s because of theft and bad choices. We need to just let areas change. We need to let the market work as it should even if people are priced out. No one has a right to be anywhere forever and it’s annoying to hear people complain about the sadness of poverty and being pushed out and blah blah. Let people move where they can afford to live and maybe that will encourage them to work harder and so forth. Instead of trying to grandfather in the same families to live in projects with subsidized rent for 50 years. I know this place is populated heavily by well intentioned housewives, but I live and grew up in the inner city in DC. It’s way better with gentrification.

Ahh the typical poor people are stupid and lazy. Got it.

Not the immigrant poor – just the cycle of poverty poor. But then again, most immigrant poor live in the cheaper suburbs and are busting their butt at three jobs and their kids go on to college in ome kind of stem or immediate job producing field.

— neighbor of these immigrants and listener to their stories

In our society we are obsessive about not blaming the "victim" for anything, but that won't help us address the US's problem with urban poverty and poor nutrition.

Societies all over the world have developed diets that have allowed people to survive and eat well on very limited budgets, but much of this knowledge has been lost in US inner cities. That is why so many immigrant families eat so much better on equally limited budgets.

Just one example, we have had a series of au pairs to care for our kids. One of the first was from Brazil. We told her that we would buy whatever food she wanted, just add it to our grocery list.

Dried beans
Rice
Frozen tilapia
Frozen chicken
Sausage
Various greens, various vegetables.

Every meal she made for our kids was some combination of rice, beans, a little meat, and some vegetable/greens. (and it was what she ate herself)


She was able to feed herself and our kids for a few dollars a day, and it was nutritious healthy food.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't Safeway and Giant at one point have stores in those wards? I think the reason they left was because of theft. Hard to justify a store if more money walks out the doors than goes in the cash register.

Now a seasonal produce stand, I have no clue why there are none. Seems like some local farmer could set up a stand to sell their fruit and veggies. I guess the DC government would want their share, that's probably why there are none.

Yes, loss prevention. Stores cannot be forced to operate as charities..I always thought DC could do FAR more, like offering to open police substations in their entry ways, and other safety minded "partnerships" to encourage these stores to open. Instead, DC got very demandy with WalMart about employment and other perks the city wanted when they were thinking of locating in Washington. If it's simply market driven, no one will open in a demandy city in areas with rampant and tolerated theft. It's also very difficult to apprehend and prosecute for shoplifting, especially in our current world.

It’s fascinating to see a city grandfather in subsidized housing, like what’s happening at Res 13, to counter gentrification and ensure poverty can persist in a desirable neighborhood, so as not to “displace” local residents. As if the area should be preserved in amber for only certain protected classes of people. Most people have to move, but not some.

Anyway, it’s also fascinating to see people struggle to grasp that poor people straight up make bad decisions because they’re poor. They don’t want a damn Whole Foods. They can’t afford that sht. Generally, nor do they possess the wherewithal to understand how to eat mostly vegetables and less unhealthy processed sht. Stores have tried to make a go of it and sell healthy food around Anacostia and Benming and Langton carver and the only way that food takes off is if the area is sufficiently gentrified. Except it’s evil to gentrify, so it’s easier to look for a billion nonsense reasons why there are “food deserts”. It’s because of theft and bad choices. We need to just let areas change. We need to let the market work as it should even if people are priced out. No one has a right to be anywhere forever and it’s annoying to hear people complain about the sadness of poverty and being pushed out and blah blah. Let people move where they can afford to live and maybe that will encourage them to work harder and so forth. Instead of trying to grandfather in the same families to live in projects with subsidized rent for 50 years. I know this place is populated heavily by well intentioned housewives, but I live and grew up in the inner city in DC. It’s way better with gentrification.

Ahh the typical poor people are stupid and lazy. Got it.

Not the immigrant poor – just the cycle of poverty poor. But then again, most immigrant poor live in the cheaper suburbs and are busting their butt at three jobs and their kids go on to college in ome kind of stem or immediate job producing field.

— neighbor of these immigrants and listener to their stories

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work with families in Wards 7 and 8 and we partner with an organization that gives fresh, local produce away free or at almost no cost. They even deliver for free. Very few takers.

OP here. The markets I was referencing in NYC sell produce for significantly less than what the same produce costs in supermarkets. Certainly cheaper than Yes! Organic market. However, it is not free.

Are individuals you work with responsible for feeding families, or are they, say, young, single and prefer not to cook? What are some reasons cited for lack of interest?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't Safeway and Giant at one point have stores in those wards? I think the reason they left was because of theft. Hard to justify a store if more money walks out the doors than goes in the cash register.

Now a seasonal produce stand, I have no clue why there are none. Seems like some local farmer could set up a stand to sell their fruit and veggies. I guess the DC government would want their share, that's probably why there are none.

If chains left due to theft, how would the local farmer survive?

People don't steal fresh fruit and veggies.

No, but they don't buy them either.

I live in Ward 7, within walking distance to the only grocery store in the Ward. I still drive to the Safeway on 14th st most of the time because the produce at the Ward 7 Safeway is godawful, and the produce is godawful because it sits and sits while nobody buys it.

I'm not making a judgement call on people who choose not to buy fresh produce, there are tons of factors why they might not. Preprepared and prepackaged food is often cheaper and faster than cooking from scratch, and less well off people may not have the time between working multiple jobs with odd schedules to cook full meals with fresh veggies as opposed to picking up a box of Kraft mac and cheese for 99 cents.

That doesn't change my observations at the store though, which is cart after cart of frozen meals, ramen, soda, canned and boxed food and rarely a fresh veggie in sight. Again, no judgement, people can buy what they want, but often times it really isn't about lack of access to fresh food, it's lack of interest.

EBT let’s you buy whatever you want as far as food goes.

Wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't Safeway and Giant at one point have stores in those wards? I think the reason they left was because of theft. Hard to justify a store if more money walks out the doors than goes in the cash register.

Now a seasonal produce stand, I have no clue why there are none. Seems like some local farmer could set up a stand to sell their fruit and veggies. I guess the DC government would want their share, that's probably why there are none.

If chains left due to theft, how would the local farmer survive?

People don't steal fresh fruit and veggies.

No, but they don't buy them either.

I live in Ward 7, within walking distance to the only grocery store in the Ward. I still drive to the Safeway on 14th st most of the time because the produce at the Ward 7 Safeway is godawful, and the produce is godawful because it sits and sits while nobody buys it.

I'm not making a judgement call on people who choose not to buy fresh produce, there are tons of factors why they might not. Preprepared and prepackaged food is often cheaper and faster than cooking from scratch, and less well off people may not have the time between working multiple jobs with odd schedules to cook full meals with fresh veggies as opposed to picking up a box of Kraft mac and cheese for 99 cents.

That doesn't change my observations at the store though, which is cart after cart of frozen meals, ramen, soda, canned and boxed food and rarely a fresh veggie in sight. Again, no judgement, people can buy what they want, but often times it really isn't about lack of access to fresh food, it's lack of interest.

EBT let’s you buy whatever you want as far as food goes.

Wrong.

Yes, it does. There are many studies about the types of food purchased with SNAP. You must be confusing this with WIC.

"The findings show that the No. 1 purchases by SNAP households are soft drinks, which accounted for 5 percent of the dollars they spent on food. The category of ‘sweetened beverages,’ which includes soft drinks, fruit juices, energy drinks and sweetened teas, accounted for almost 10 percent of the dollars they spent on food."
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/13/well/eat/food-stamp-snap-soda.html

The report compared SNAP households and non-SNAP households. While those who used food stamps bought slightly more junk food and fewer vegetables, both SNAP and non-SNAP households bought ample amounts of sweetened drinks, candy, ice cream and potato chips. Among non-SNAP households, for example, soft drinks ranked second on the list of food purchases, behind milk.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't Safeway and Giant at one point have stores in those wards? I think the reason they left was because of theft. Hard to justify a store if more money walks out the doors than goes in the cash register.

Now a seasonal produce stand, I have no clue why there are none. Seems like some local farmer could set up a stand to sell their fruit and veggies. I guess the DC government would want their share, that's probably why there are none.

If chains left due to theft, how would the local farmer survive?

People don't steal fresh fruit and veggies.

No, but they don't buy them either.

I live in Ward 7, within walking distance to the only grocery store in the Ward. I still drive to the Safeway on 14th st most of the time because the produce at the Ward 7 Safeway is godawful, and the produce is godawful because it sits and sits while nobody buys it.

I'm not making a judgement call on people who choose not to buy fresh produce, there are tons of factors why they might not. Preprepared and prepackaged food is often cheaper and faster than cooking from scratch, and less well off people may not have the time between working multiple jobs with odd schedules to cook full meals with fresh veggies as opposed to picking up a box of Kraft mac and cheese for 99 cents.

That doesn't change my observations at the store though, which is cart after cart of frozen meals, ramen, soda, canned and boxed food and rarely a fresh veggie in sight. Again, no judgement, people can buy what they want, but often times it really isn't about lack of access to fresh food, it's lack of interest.

EBT let’s you buy whatever you want as far as food goes.

Wrong.

Anonymous wrote:I just visited the Smithsonian Anacostia Community Museum, which reopened yesterday. The museum is running an excellent Food Justice exhibit.

Can anyone familiar with the issue share perspective on why there are so few grocery stores in Wards 7 and 8, and why there are no fruit and vegetable markets? There are many such markets in lower income areas of Brooklyn, New York. I wonder what is different...

My initial thought is that an entrepreneur could open a store, meet currently unmet demand, and turn a profit. However, that has not happened and I am wondering why.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should we bring back home ec?

Did it ever leave?

Anonymous wrote:Food boxes have evolved. There is a lot more emphasis on produce and recipe cards. This trend should continue to retrain palates. Processed food is unhealthy and could explain a lot of health disparities that develop over a lifetime of poor diet.

Anonymous wrote:

It is also very interesting that relatively poor Hispanic/Asian/Caribbean communities don't suffer from 'food desserts'. I lived in one, but there was plenty of ultra cheap produce around. Food desserts are much more nuanced that poor/rich.

I imagine that some sociologist/anthropologist has analyzed this, but my guess is that the history of slavery in this country has a lot to do with the food choices that multi-generationally poor AA populations make. Enslaved people were given the leftovers of the available food in the antebellum South---which is why historic "soul food" is things like chitlins (pig entrails)---plus, southern country cooking (for both white and black populations) deals with vegetables by either breading and frying them (okra, squash), boiling them in fatback lard until they are limp (collards and green beans), or combining them with tons of butter and sugar (sweet potatoes). and then serving the foregoing with tasty but not nutritionally substantive carbs such as mac n cheese or biscuits. Those eating habits were carried out of the South during the great migration. When you never had the healthiest habits to begin with---shifting into processed foods and sugary soft drinks is a natural shift.

Poor immigrants from tropical climates grew up with a ready availability of fresh fruit. I help out with a local homeless shelter, and it is noticeable how the Latino and Asian clients stock up on the bananas first.

Anonymous wrote:You can order groceries for delivery anywhere now. Maybe they don't need stores in the Ward.