Anonymous
08/04/2021 19:56
Subject: University of Notre Dame.
Anonymous wrote:Ok so someone asks for a list. We give them a list. And then they cry foul and start name calling. OK then.
I’m the one who asked for the list. I neither cried foul nor name called. I just disagreed that all the schools on the list are more competitive stats-wise than Notre Dame. Because they’re not. Many may have a lower admit rate than ND’s very low 14 percent, but that’s because ND’s application pool is more self-selective than most of the schools on the list. And we all know that at this level admissions are a total crap shoot. You honestly don’t think there are plenty of ND rejects at Berkeley, Cornell, Rice, Northwestern, etc.? In fact, Notre Dame’s current law dean (who came from Stanford) went to Cornell undergrad after Notre Dame rejected him.
Anonymous
08/04/2021 19:46
Subject: University of Notre Dame.
Anonymous wrote:ND is a midwest school in an armpit town for Republican Catholics. Gross.
See, you’re just plain wrong. ND probably has the most geographically diverse student body of any school in the country and, as was pointed out earlier, has more Democrats than Republicans. Yes, it does have a lot of Catholics, which I understand can be a turnoff for bigots like you.
Anonymous
08/04/2021 19:05
Subject: University of Notre Dame.
Ok so someone asks for a list. We give them a list. And then they cry foul and start name calling. OK then.
Anonymous
08/04/2021 18:41
Subject: Re:University of Notre Dame.
I’m the PP who noted that I find ND grads, while very academically accomplished and clearly bright, a little immature compared to other students I recruit. I find the level of defensiveness on this thread somewhat indicative of what I’m saying. It’s this narrowness where they are surprised by anyone who dies not share their values and life experiences.
I have met ND grads later in their careers who don’t strike me this way, but I mostly recruit people straight out of college or an MBA/JD. I think ND grads often require a little seasoning and my recommendation to anyone who goes us to seek out experiences during school or post grad that would offer that— working abroad, doing hands on non profit work, etc. I would not recommend going straight to grad school (though I rarely if ever recommend that).
The point is, it’s a good school with talented students. But it has some limitations due to the narrowness of the population from which it recruits, that many other top schools do not have.
I have met ND grads later in their careers who don’t strike me this way, but I mostly recruit people straight out of college or an MBA/JD. I think ND grads often require a little seasoning and my recommendation to anyone who goes us to seek out experiences during school or post grad that would offer that— working abroad, doing hands on non profit work, etc. I would not recommend going straight to grad school (though I rarely if ever recommend that).
The point is, it’s a good school with talented students. But it has some limitations due to the narrowness of the population from which it recruits, that many other top schools do not have.
Anonymous
08/04/2021 18:30
Subject: University of Notre Dame.
ND is a midwest school in an armpit town for Republican Catholics. Gross.
Anonymous
08/04/2021 18:04
Subject: Re:University of Notre Dame.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think ND is a great school academically but my perception, as someone who didn’t go there but does hiring in the DC area and sees a lot of ND grads, is that the school is somewhat insular and there is a degree of immaturity among their graduates as a result. I do think the combination of being in a remote area, having a heavily Catholic student body, and drawing from a somewhat narrow applicant pool, may have a negative impact on this aspect of development. My overall impression is not negative at all, but there have been a number of ND grads that I didn’t feel comfortable hiring right out of school because they seemed unusually immature compared to other applicants. I often got the impression of very accomplished high schoolers, where you think “wow you are going to be great as soon as you get some real life experience!” Of course, there is some of that with all recent college grads but it feels more pronounced with ND grads. Things like study abroad and summer internships don’t seem to matter either… it’s still the impression I get.
For that reason I’d be unlikely to encourage my child to go there. I think college should be at least partially about broadening your horizons and ND seems more like a comfortable, familiar environment for a pretty specific type of student. Very good school though.
Our organization actually seeks out ND grads (along with other top universities). We find the ND grads to be not only brilliant, but the easiest to work with..the least pompous. Just a personal experience.
Brilliant? I might have bought this but your word choice gives you away. ND is a good school with smart students, but no one but an ND booster (either alum, or parent of student, or both) would say ND grads are “brilliant” and not pompous.
Some are definitely pompous, for instance. True if any name brand school, though.
There are very few colleges in the United States where entering freshmen have better qualifications and test scores than Notre Dame. You don't have to be a Notre Dame booster to know that, but you'd have to be a real Notre Dame hater to deny it.
I guess that depends on your definition of "few." There are dozens of colleges that are more academically selective than Notre Dame.
“Dozens” you say? Ok, list them.
DP but I'm going to try to play this game! Note: I'm not a ND basher, I really don't have a strong opinion about the school either way. Just a fun exercise because I'm bored.
1. Harvard
2. Yale
3. Princeton
4. Stanford
5. MIT
6. Caltech
7. Penn
8. Chicago
9. Northwestern
10. Columbia
11. Duke
12. Johns Hopkins
13. Cornell
14. Dartmouth
15. Brown
16. Rice
17. Vanderbilt
18. West Point
19. Annapolis
20. Williams
21. Amherst
22. Swarthmore
23. Pomona
24. Berkeley
25. Carnegie Mellon
26. WashU
27. Harvey Mudd
Dozens is not how I would describe the quantity on this list.
Anonymous
08/04/2021 17:49
Subject: Re:University of Notre Dame.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think ND is a great school academically but my perception, as someone who didn’t go there but does hiring in the DC area and sees a lot of ND grads, is that the school is somewhat insular and there is a degree of immaturity among their graduates as a result. I do think the combination of being in a remote area, having a heavily Catholic student body, and drawing from a somewhat narrow applicant pool, may have a negative impact on this aspect of development. My overall impression is not negative at all, but there have been a number of ND grads that I didn’t feel comfortable hiring right out of school because they seemed unusually immature compared to other applicants. I often got the impression of very accomplished high schoolers, where you think “wow you are going to be great as soon as you get some real life experience!” Of course, there is some of that with all recent college grads but it feels more pronounced with ND grads. Things like study abroad and summer internships don’t seem to matter either… it’s still the impression I get.
For that reason I’d be unlikely to encourage my child to go there. I think college should be at least partially about broadening your horizons and ND seems more like a comfortable, familiar environment for a pretty specific type of student. Very good school though.
Our organization actually seeks out ND grads (along with other top universities). We find the ND grads to be not only brilliant, but the easiest to work with..the least pompous. Just a personal experience.
Brilliant? I might have bought this but your word choice gives you away. ND is a good school with smart students, but no one but an ND booster (either alum, or parent of student, or both) would say ND grads are “brilliant” and not pompous.
Some are definitely pompous, for instance. True if any name brand school, though.
There are very few colleges in the United States where entering freshmen have better qualifications and test scores than Notre Dame. You don't have to be a Notre Dame booster to know that, but you'd have to be a real Notre Dame hater to deny it.
I guess that depends on your definition of "few." There are dozens of colleges that are more academically selective than Notre Dame.
“Dozens” you say? Ok, list them.
DP but I'm going to try to play this game! Note: I'm not a ND basher, I really don't have a strong opinion about the school either way. Just a fun exercise because I'm bored.
1. Harvard
2. Yale
3. Princeton
4. Stanford
5. MIT
6. Caltech
7. Penn
8. Chicago
9. Northwestern
10. Columbia
11. Duke
12. Johns Hopkins
13. Cornell
14. Dartmouth
15. Brown
16. Rice
17. Vanderbilt
18. West Point
19. Annapolis
20. Williams
21. Amherst
22. Swarthmore
23. Pomona
24. Berkeley
25. Carnegie Mellon
26. WashU
27. Harvey Mudd
I’d say half the schools on your list are tougher admits by a small margin and the other half are even with or slightly less selective. You’re really splitting hairs after the top dozen or so.
It is kind of bizarre that someone would go through the trouble to come up with a list with the one intention to bash Notre Dame. Says a lot about this forum.
Anonymous
08/04/2021 17:24
Subject: Re:University of Notre Dame.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think ND is a great school academically but my perception, as someone who didn’t go there but does hiring in the DC area and sees a lot of ND grads, is that the school is somewhat insular and there is a degree of immaturity among their graduates as a result. I do think the combination of being in a remote area, having a heavily Catholic student body, and drawing from a somewhat narrow applicant pool, may have a negative impact on this aspect of development. My overall impression is not negative at all, but there have been a number of ND grads that I didn’t feel comfortable hiring right out of school because they seemed unusually immature compared to other applicants. I often got the impression of very accomplished high schoolers, where you think “wow you are going to be great as soon as you get some real life experience!” Of course, there is some of that with all recent college grads but it feels more pronounced with ND grads. Things like study abroad and summer internships don’t seem to matter either… it’s still the impression I get.
For that reason I’d be unlikely to encourage my child to go there. I think college should be at least partially about broadening your horizons and ND seems more like a comfortable, familiar environment for a pretty specific type of student. Very good school though.
Our organization actually seeks out ND grads (along with other top universities). We find the ND grads to be not only brilliant, but the easiest to work with..the least pompous. Just a personal experience.
Brilliant? I might have bought this but your word choice gives you away. ND is a good school with smart students, but no one but an ND booster (either alum, or parent of student, or both) would say ND grads are “brilliant” and not pompous.
Some are definitely pompous, for instance. True if any name brand school, though.
There are very few colleges in the United States where entering freshmen have better qualifications and test scores than Notre Dame. You don't have to be a Notre Dame booster to know that, but you'd have to be a real Notre Dame hater to deny it.
I guess that depends on your definition of "few." There are dozens of colleges that are more academically selective than Notre Dame.
“Dozens” you say? Ok, list them.
DP but I'm going to try to play this game! Note: I'm not a ND basher, I really don't have a strong opinion about the school either way. Just a fun exercise because I'm bored.
1. Harvard
2. Yale
3. Princeton
4. Stanford
5. MIT
6. Caltech
7. Penn
8. Chicago
9. Northwestern
10. Columbia
11. Duke
12. Johns Hopkins
13. Cornell
14. Dartmouth
15. Brown
16. Rice
17. Vanderbilt
18. West Point
19. Annapolis
20. Williams
21. Amherst
22. Swarthmore
23. Pomona
24. Berkeley
25. Carnegie Mellon
26. WashU
27. Harvey Mudd
I’d say half the schools on your list are tougher admits by a small margin and the other half are even with or slightly less selective. You’re really splitting hairs after the top dozen or so.
Anonymous
08/04/2021 16:40
Subject: Re:University of Notre Dame.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think ND is a great school academically but my perception, as someone who didn’t go there but does hiring in the DC area and sees a lot of ND grads, is that the school is somewhat insular and there is a degree of immaturity among their graduates as a result. I do think the combination of being in a remote area, having a heavily Catholic student body, and drawing from a somewhat narrow applicant pool, may have a negative impact on this aspect of development. My overall impression is not negative at all, but there have been a number of ND grads that I didn’t feel comfortable hiring right out of school because they seemed unusually immature compared to other applicants. I often got the impression of very accomplished high schoolers, where you think “wow you are going to be great as soon as you get some real life experience!” Of course, there is some of that with all recent college grads but it feels more pronounced with ND grads. Things like study abroad and summer internships don’t seem to matter either… it’s still the impression I get.
For that reason I’d be unlikely to encourage my child to go there. I think college should be at least partially about broadening your horizons and ND seems more like a comfortable, familiar environment for a pretty specific type of student. Very good school though.
Our organization actually seeks out ND grads (along with other top universities). We find the ND grads to be not only brilliant, but the easiest to work with..the least pompous. Just a personal experience.
Brilliant? I might have bought this but your word choice gives you away. ND is a good school with smart students, but no one but an ND booster (either alum, or parent of student, or both) would say ND grads are “brilliant” and not pompous.
Some are definitely pompous, for instance. True if any name brand school, though.
There are very few colleges in the United States where entering freshmen have better qualifications and test scores than Notre Dame. You don't have to be a Notre Dame booster to know that, but you'd have to be a real Notre Dame hater to deny it.
I guess that depends on your definition of "few." There are dozens of colleges that are more academically selective than Notre Dame.
“Dozens” you say? Ok, list them.
DP but I'm going to try to play this game! Note: I'm not a ND basher, I really don't have a strong opinion about the school either way. Just a fun exercise because I'm bored.
1. Harvard
2. Yale
3. Princeton
4. Stanford
5. MIT
6. Caltech
7. Penn
8. Chicago
9. Northwestern
10. Columbia
11. Duke
12. Johns Hopkins
13. Cornell
14. Dartmouth
15. Brown
16. Rice
17. Vanderbilt
18. West Point
19. Annapolis
20. Williams
21. Amherst
22. Swarthmore
23. Pomona
24. Berkeley
25. Carnegie Mellon
26. WashU
27. Harvey Mudd
Anonymous
08/04/2021 16:01
Subject: Re:University of Notre Dame.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think ND is a great school academically but my perception, as someone who didn’t go there but does hiring in the DC area and sees a lot of ND grads, is that the school is somewhat insular and there is a degree of immaturity among their graduates as a result. I do think the combination of being in a remote area, having a heavily Catholic student body, and drawing from a somewhat narrow applicant pool, may have a negative impact on this aspect of development. My overall impression is not negative at all, but there have been a number of ND grads that I didn’t feel comfortable hiring right out of school because they seemed unusually immature compared to other applicants. I often got the impression of very accomplished high schoolers, where you think “wow you are going to be great as soon as you get some real life experience!” Of course, there is some of that with all recent college grads but it feels more pronounced with ND grads. Things like study abroad and summer internships don’t seem to matter either… it’s still the impression I get.
For that reason I’d be unlikely to encourage my child to go there. I think college should be at least partially about broadening your horizons and ND seems more like a comfortable, familiar environment for a pretty specific type of student. Very good school though.
Our organization actually seeks out ND grads (along with other top universities). We find the ND grads to be not only brilliant, but the easiest to work with..the least pompous. Just a personal experience.
Brilliant? I might have bought this but your word choice gives you away. ND is a good school with smart students, but no one but an ND booster (either alum, or parent of student, or both) would say ND grads are “brilliant” and not pompous.
Some are definitely pompous, for instance. True if any name brand school, though.
There are very few colleges in the United States where entering freshmen have better qualifications and test scores than Notre Dame. You don't have to be a Notre Dame booster to know that, but you'd have to be a real Notre Dame hater to deny it.
I guess that depends on your definition of "few." There are dozens of colleges that are more academically selective than Notre Dame.
“Dozens” you say? Ok, list them.
Anonymous
08/04/2021 14:49
Subject: Re:University of Notre Dame.
Anonymous wrote:I think ND is a great school academically but my perception, as someone who didn’t go there but does hiring in the DC area and sees a lot of ND grads, is that the school is somewhat insular and there is a degree of immaturity among their graduates as a result. I do think the combination of being in a remote area, having a heavily Catholic student body, and drawing from a somewhat narrow applicant pool, may have a negative impact on this aspect of development. My overall impression is not negative at all, but there have been a number of ND grads that I didn’t feel comfortable hiring right out of school because they seemed unusually immature compared to other applicants. I often got the impression of very accomplished high schoolers, where you think “wow you are going to be great as soon as you get some real life experience!” Of course, there is some of that with all recent college grads but it feels more pronounced with ND grads. Things like study abroad and summer internships don’t seem to matter either… it’s still the impression I get.
For that reason I’d be unlikely to encourage my child to go there. I think college should be at least partially about broadening your horizons and ND seems more like a comfortable, familiar environment for a pretty specific type of student. Very good school though.
As a ND grad, I would call is less immaturity and more a lack of exposure/worldliness. What I found was that many classmates had narrowed views of life. They grew up surrounded by the same sort of people who looked like them and acted like them. Very little diversity of any type existed. So when real life hits them when they graduate and have to deal with real people, who are diverse economically, socially, ethnically, experience-wise, etc., they fall flat compared to other top school, where there tends to be a little more variety of life -- whether that is urban life, socioeconomic variety, or just different world views. I did fine at ND, but it was a place where if you were different than the norm, you got along by playing your part. Maybe not authentic you, but an acceptable version of you that the mainstream could accept and adapt to.
ND is a special place and is not for everyone. I liked it a lot and have grown to appreciate its offering over the years. Given its uniqueness, it will never be a place for great worldliness and cultures or progressiveness. It's not the only college that way, but it is one of the top colleges that manages to stand out that way.
Anonymous
08/04/2021 14:10
Subject: Re:University of Notre Dame.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think ND is a great school academically but my perception, as someone who didn’t go there but does hiring in the DC area and sees a lot of ND grads, is that the school is somewhat insular and there is a degree of immaturity among their graduates as a result. I do think the combination of being in a remote area, having a heavily Catholic student body, and drawing from a somewhat narrow applicant pool, may have a negative impact on this aspect of development. My overall impression is not negative at all, but there have been a number of ND grads that I didn’t feel comfortable hiring right out of school because they seemed unusually immature compared to other applicants. I often got the impression of very accomplished high schoolers, where you think “wow you are going to be great as soon as you get some real life experience!” Of course, there is some of that with all recent college grads but it feels more pronounced with ND grads. Things like study abroad and summer internships don’t seem to matter either… it’s still the impression I get.
For that reason I’d be unlikely to encourage my child to go there. I think college should be at least partially about broadening your horizons and ND seems more like a comfortable, familiar environment for a pretty specific type of student. Very good school though.
I'm one of the ND grad PPs, and I actually think this is a fair assessment to a certain degree, *if* you are conflating maturity with worldliness or cynicism. If the maturity you need in a new grad is showing up on time, doing their work, being comfortable speaking to leaders, etc., then ND students absolutely have that. If you want students who have been able to do hands on real life research or projects, then ND students absolutely have that. But I think it's fair to say that they might be a little naive and less cynical than a lot of college grads. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing probably depends on the exact job for which you are hiring them.
In other words some of them are not “street-smart”.
Anonymous
08/04/2021 13:44
Subject: Re:University of Notre Dame.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think ND is a great school academically but my perception, as someone who didn’t go there but does hiring in the DC area and sees a lot of ND grads, is that the school is somewhat insular and there is a degree of immaturity among their graduates as a result. I do think the combination of being in a remote area, having a heavily Catholic student body, and drawing from a somewhat narrow applicant pool, may have a negative impact on this aspect of development. My overall impression is not negative at all, but there have been a number of ND grads that I didn’t feel comfortable hiring right out of school because they seemed unusually immature compared to other applicants. I often got the impression of very accomplished high schoolers, where you think “wow you are going to be great as soon as you get some real life experience!” Of course, there is some of that with all recent college grads but it feels more pronounced with ND grads. Things like study abroad and summer internships don’t seem to matter either… it’s still the impression I get.
For that reason I’d be unlikely to encourage my child to go there. I think college should be at least partially about broadening your horizons and ND seems more like a comfortable, familiar environment for a pretty specific type of student. Very good school though.
Our organization actually seeks out ND grads (along with other top universities). We find the ND grads to be not only brilliant, but the easiest to work with..the least pompous. Just a personal experience.
Brilliant? I might have bought this but your word choice gives you away. ND is a good school with smart students, but no one but an ND booster (either alum, or parent of student, or both) would say ND grads are “brilliant” and not pompous.
Some are definitely pompous, for instance. True if any name brand school, though.
There are very few colleges in the United States where entering freshmen have better qualifications and test scores than Notre Dame. You don't have to be a Notre Dame booster to know that, but you'd have to be a real Notre Dame hater to deny it.
+100
So much DCUM hate for ND. Many can't seems to be able to stomach the fact that a university with mostly Catholics is consistently ranked top 20 with entering freshmen stats in the same category as any ivy.
Anonymous
08/04/2021 13:43
Subject: Re:University of Notre Dame.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think ND is a great school academically but my perception, as someone who didn’t go there but does hiring in the DC area and sees a lot of ND grads, is that the school is somewhat insular and there is a degree of immaturity among their graduates as a result. I do think the combination of being in a remote area, having a heavily Catholic student body, and drawing from a somewhat narrow applicant pool, may have a negative impact on this aspect of development. My overall impression is not negative at all, but there have been a number of ND grads that I didn’t feel comfortable hiring right out of school because they seemed unusually immature compared to other applicants. I often got the impression of very accomplished high schoolers, where you think “wow you are going to be great as soon as you get some real life experience!” Of course, there is some of that with all recent college grads but it feels more pronounced with ND grads. Things like study abroad and summer internships don’t seem to matter either… it’s still the impression I get.
For that reason I’d be unlikely to encourage my child to go there. I think college should be at least partially about broadening your horizons and ND seems more like a comfortable, familiar environment for a pretty specific type of student. Very good school though.
Our organization actually seeks out ND grads (along with other top universities). We find the ND grads to be not only brilliant, but the easiest to work with..the least pompous. Just a personal experience.
Brilliant? I might have bought this but your word choice gives you away. ND is a good school with smart students, but no one but an ND booster (either alum, or parent of student, or both) would say ND grads are “brilliant” and not pompous.
Some are definitely pompous, for instance. True if any name brand school, though.
There are very few colleges in the United States where entering freshmen have better qualifications and test scores than Notre Dame. You don't have to be a Notre Dame booster to know that, but you'd have to be a real Notre Dame hater to deny it.
I guess that depends on your definition of "few." There are dozens of colleges that are more academically selective than Notre Dame.
Anonymous
08/04/2021 13:29
Subject: Re:University of Notre Dame.
Anonymous wrote:I think ND is a great school academically but my perception, as someone who didn’t go there but does hiring in the DC area and sees a lot of ND grads, is that the school is somewhat insular and there is a degree of immaturity among their graduates as a result. I do think the combination of being in a remote area, having a heavily Catholic student body, and drawing from a somewhat narrow applicant pool, may have a negative impact on this aspect of development. My overall impression is not negative at all, but there have been a number of ND grads that I didn’t feel comfortable hiring right out of school because they seemed unusually immature compared to other applicants. I often got the impression of very accomplished high schoolers, where you think “wow you are going to be great as soon as you get some real life experience!” Of course, there is some of that with all recent college grads but it feels more pronounced with ND grads. Things like study abroad and summer internships don’t seem to matter either… it’s still the impression I get.
For that reason I’d be unlikely to encourage my child to go there. I think college should be at least partially about broadening your horizons and ND seems more like a comfortable, familiar environment for a pretty specific type of student. Very good school though.
I'm one of the ND grad PPs, and I actually think this is a fair assessment to a certain degree, *if* you are conflating maturity with worldliness or cynicism. If the maturity you need in a new grad is showing up on time, doing their work, being comfortable speaking to leaders, etc., then ND students absolutely have that. If you want students who have been able to do hands on real life research or projects, then ND students absolutely have that. But I think it's fair to say that they might be a little naive and less cynical than a lot of college grads. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing probably depends on the exact job for which you are hiring them.