Unless the student attends on a athletic scholarship, why care about the Division IA sports teams (unless you are a vile child molester, then Penn State football.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: U of Michigan, U of Florida and U of Virginia are the All Around Best schools. These three schools are all top 30 ranked schools based on US News and World Report that have strong Division IA sports teams, reasonable tuition (especially for in-state) and students/alumni that actually love attending the school.

Relating to the "top 10" thread, those schools only admit a small number of students (and those are typically legacy, minority, or sports hooks) and cost $75,000 plus per year.

Among the Publics, UC Berkeley, UCLA and U Mich are in a category of their own. All around great schools, many top programs - STEM and non-STEM. I'd add UVA to this category if your focus is exclusively on non-STEM. On par with most top Private schools. All other publics are a step below and you'd choose to attend one of them if the specific program you are interested in ranked high relative to the cost of attendance. For example, UC SD, U Wash, Austin, Georgia Tech, UIUC, Purdue, UMD are all great STEM schools, better than UVA in STEM and waaaay better than Florida. Actually not sure why Florida is ranked 30..

Are they really? If you survey UCLA and Berkeley undergraduate alumni in particular, would they think they had a great experience compared to other schools? I don't think they will (look at Niche, alumni giving rates). If you look at earnings and compare to other schools after adjusting for cost of living where graduates settle and what they major in, do they do better than other public schools? Again, I don't think so.

I agree. Michigan is in a category of its own. It is the “all around best” university in this country. 😁

Except for the weather category. UF beats them all hands down for that. (UF grad)

Anonymous wrote:I would argue that schools like Michigan, UCLA, Cal, Wisconsin Northwestern, Stanford, UT Austin, UVA and Vanderbilt provide the best of "big school/sports" and academics.

If those are your criteria, how about Duke, UNC, USC etc.? Not sure what big time programs exist at Northwestern and Vanderbilt.

Europeans, by the way, are shocked to find out that U.S. universities have minor league sports programs attached to them.

I would argue that schools like Michigan, UCLA, Cal, Wisconsin Northwestern, Stanford, UT Austin, UVA and Vanderbilt provide the best of "big school/sports" and academics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: U of Michigan, U of Florida and U of Virginia are the All Around Best schools. These three schools are all top 30 ranked schools based on US News and World Report that have strong Division IA sports teams, reasonable tuition (especially for in-state) and students/alumni that actually love attending the school.

Relating to the "top 10" thread, those schools only admit a small number of students (and those are typically legacy, minority, or sports hooks) and cost $75,000 plus per year.

Among the Publics, UC Berkeley, UCLA and U Mich are in a category of their own. All around great schools, many top programs - STEM and non-STEM. I'd add UVA to this category if your focus is exclusively on non-STEM. On par with most top Private schools. All other publics are a step below and you'd choose to attend one of them if the specific program you are interested in ranked high relative to the cost of attendance. For example, UC SD, U Wash, Austin, Georgia Tech, UIUC, Purdue, UMD are all great STEM schools, better than UVA in STEM and waaaay better than Florida. Actually not sure why Florida is ranked 30..

Are they really? If you survey UCLA and Berkeley undergraduate alumni in particular, would they think they had a great experience compared to other schools? I don't think they will (look at Niche, alumni giving rates). If you look at earnings and compare to other schools after adjusting for cost of living where graduates settle and what they major in, do they do better than other public schools? Again, I don't think so.

I agree. Michigan is in a category of its own. It is the “all around best” university in this country. 😁

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: U of Michigan, U of Florida and U of Virginia are the All Around Best schools. These three schools are all top 30 ranked schools based on US News and World Report that have strong Division IA sports teams, reasonable tuition (especially for in-state) and students/alumni that actually love attending the school.

Relating to the "top 10" thread, those schools only admit a small number of students (and those are typically legacy, minority, or sports hooks) and cost $75,000 plus per year.

Among the Publics, UC Berkeley, UCLA and U Mich are in a category of their own. All around great schools, many top programs - STEM and non-STEM. I'd add UVA to this category if your focus is exclusively on non-STEM. On par with most top Private schools. All other publics are a step below and you'd choose to attend one of them if the specific program you are interested in ranked high relative to the cost of attendance. For example, UC SD, U Wash, Austin, Georgia Tech, UIUC, Purdue, UMD are all great STEM schools, better than UVA in STEM and waaaay better than Florida. Actually not sure why Florida is ranked 30..

Are they really? If you survey UCLA and Berkeley undergraduate alumni in particular, would they think they had a great experience compared to other schools? I don't think they will (look at Niche, alumni giving rates). If you look at earnings and compare to other schools after adjusting for cost of living where graduates settle and what they major in, do they do better than other public schools? Again, I don't think so.

If you survey the alumni or ANY school, the majority of them will say they had a great experience. I have 2 friends, one works for the post office and the other is the CEO of a mid-size company. Both are extremely happy with their families/lives despite their disparities. Still doesn't negate the fact that the CEO dude's quality of life and life experiences are miles ahead of the other's.

I come across this POV all the time.. earnings adjusted for COL are the same across the country. That may be, at a point in time. However, over 30 years of employment, you also save and invest, buy homes that appreciate, have opportunities that don't even exist at other places, etc. Every friend of mine who chose to go the SF bay area is wealthier than I am. More than a handful of them own homes that are worth more than my 8-figure net worth. Where you begin your career (even if the COLA-adjusted starting salary is the same elsewhere) matters in the long run.

Compared to other schools they don't. If you look at data from Niche and USNWR, UCLA and Berkeley are average to below average in responses to questions on whether alumni got their money's worth, could they get needed classes, quality of teaching and professors interest in student success, and alumni giving rate. In every single category here they are below Michigan and UVA (and other public schools). They are way, way below private schools like Princeton and Duke.

Student opinion is not an accurate metric of the quality of the school. Schools that have easy classes and huge social life (and easy classes that allow for a large amount of time spent partying) will have higher ratings.

More rigor and course difficulty means lower student ratings, but rigor and course difficulty improves the academic reputation of the school.

This is a hilariously stupid take. The students experience isn’t accurate about the quality of the school? That’s literally the most important metric. And your rigor argument is debunked by William and Mary. Very rigorous academics but have the happiest students by Princeton rankings.

Hilariously stupid take? Only to an utterly idiotic moron.

Only look at the colleges ranked by overall satisfaction, the most important metric:

Vanderbilt University (1)
Kansas State (2)
Tulane (3)
Wisconsin (4)
Clemson (5)
Brown (6)
Virginia Tech (7)
Auburn (8)
Lehigh (9)
Thomas Aquinas (10)


Nowhere to be found: Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Princeton, Yale, etc.

Jeez, better send your kids to Kansas State instead of Harvard, based on the most important metric!

You are the one that determined this to be the most important metric and then cherry picked. If you look at the top 20 below for "Their students love these colleges" I would say at least the ones in bold have some reputation for academic rigor (and I am not trying to slight any other schools, it was just my gut reaction). That is over half. There are probably many aspects other than just party school.

Vanderbilt University
Kansas State University
Tulane University
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Clemson University
Brown University
Virginia Tech
Auburn University
Lehigh University
Thomas Aquinas College (CA)
Franklin W. Olin College of Engineering
University of Richmond
Bowdoin College
William & Mary
Emory University
Washington University in St. Louis
United States Military Academy
Rice University
Elon University
University of Vermont

Read through the quote thread again and determine who stated that student experience is the most important metric.

The students experience isn’t accurate about the quality of the school? That’s literally the most important metric.

Huh, looks like its the person being responded to.

The list is not cherry-picked, its literally ranked from 1 to 10.

Half the list are "rigorous" as you define it. Well the other half certainly isn't, and in fact includes well known party schools. An they form the majority of the top half of the list. Kansas State, Tulane, Wisconsin, Clemson, Virginia Tech, Auburn, Lehigh, Elon, Vermont, Richmond.

Even the single Ivy in the list is the one known for being the most relaxed and laid back academically.

Meanwhile schools that everyone considerings rigorous - MIT, Caltech, Columbia, Cornell, Swarthmore, Berkeley, Penn - are no where to be found.

You are right, I misread it.

I'd still say over half are relatively rigorous, so it isn't just a list of party schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: U of Michigan, U of Florida and U of Virginia are the All Around Best schools. These three schools are all top 30 ranked schools based on US News and World Report that have strong Division IA sports teams, reasonable tuition (especially for in-state) and students/alumni that actually love attending the school.

Relating to the "top 10" thread, those schools only admit a small number of students (and those are typically legacy, minority, or sports hooks) and cost $75,000 plus per year.

Among the Publics, UC Berkeley, UCLA and U Mich are in a category of their own. All around great schools, many top programs - STEM and non-STEM. I'd add UVA to this category if your focus is exclusively on non-STEM. On par with most top Private schools. All other publics are a step below and you'd choose to attend one of them if the specific program you are interested in ranked high relative to the cost of attendance. For example, UC SD, U Wash, Austin, Georgia Tech, UIUC, Purdue, UMD are all great STEM schools, better than UVA in STEM and waaaay better than Florida. Actually not sure why Florida is ranked 30..

Are they really? If you survey UCLA and Berkeley undergraduate alumni in particular, would they think they had a great experience compared to other schools? I don't think they will (look at Niche, alumni giving rates). If you look at earnings and compare to other schools after adjusting for cost of living where graduates settle and what they major in, do they do better than other public schools? Again, I don't think so.

If you survey the alumni or ANY school, the majority of them will say they had a great experience. I have 2 friends, one works for the post office and the other is the CEO of a mid-size company. Both are extremely happy with their families/lives despite their disparities. Still doesn't negate the fact that the CEO dude's quality of life and life experiences are miles ahead of the other's.

I come across this POV all the time.. earnings adjusted for COL are the same across the country. That may be, at a point in time. However, over 30 years of employment, you also save and invest, buy homes that appreciate, have opportunities that don't even exist at other places, etc. Every friend of mine who chose to go the SF bay area is wealthier than I am. More than a handful of them own homes that are worth more than my 8-figure net worth. Where you begin your career (even if the COLA-adjusted starting salary is the same elsewhere) matters in the long run.

Compared to other schools they don't. If you look at data from Niche and USNWR, UCLA and Berkeley are average to below average in responses to questions on whether alumni got their money's worth, could they get needed classes, quality of teaching and professors interest in student success, and alumni giving rate. In every single category here they are below Michigan and UVA (and other public schools). They are way, way below private schools like Princeton and Duke.

Student opinion is not an accurate metric of the quality of the school. Schools that have easy classes and huge social life (and easy classes that allow for a large amount of time spent partying) will have higher ratings.

More rigor and course difficulty means lower student ratings, but rigor and course difficulty improves the academic reputation of the school.

This is a hilariously stupid take. The students experience isn’t accurate about the quality of the school? That’s literally the most important metric. And your rigor argument is debunked by William and Mary. Very rigorous academics but have the happiest students by Princeton rankings.

Hilariously stupid take? Only to an utterly idiotic moron.

Only look at the colleges ranked by overall satisfaction, the most important metric:

Vanderbilt University (1)
Kansas State (2)
Tulane (3)
Wisconsin (4)
Clemson (5)
Brown (6)
Virginia Tech (7)
Auburn (8)
Lehigh (9)
Thomas Aquinas (10)


Nowhere to be found: Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Princeton, Yale, etc.

Jeez, better send your kids to Kansas State instead of Harvard, based on the most important metric!

You are the one that determined this to be the most important metric and then cherry picked. If you look at the top 20 below for "Their students love these colleges" I would say at least the ones in bold have some reputation for academic rigor (and I am not trying to slight any other schools, it was just my gut reaction). That is over half. There are probably many aspects other than just party school.

Vanderbilt University
Kansas State University
Tulane University
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Clemson University
Brown University
Virginia Tech
Auburn University
Lehigh University
Thomas Aquinas College (CA)
Franklin W. Olin College of Engineering
University of Richmond
Bowdoin College
William & Mary
Emory University
Washington University in St. Louis
United States Military Academy
Rice University
Elon University
University of Vermont

Read through the quote thread again and determine who stated that student experience is the most important metric.

The students experience isn’t accurate about the quality of the school? That’s literally the most important metric.

Huh, looks like its the person being responded to.

The list is not cherry-picked, its literally ranked from 1 to 10.

Half the list are "rigorous" as you define it. Well the other half certainly isn't, and in fact includes well known party schools. An they form the majority of the top half of the list. Kansas State, Tulane, Wisconsin, Clemson, Virginia Tech, Auburn, Lehigh, Elon, Vermont, Richmond.

Even the single Ivy in the list is the one known for being the most relaxed and laid back academically.

Meanwhile schools that everyone considerings rigorous - MIT, Caltech, Columbia, Cornell, Swarthmore, Berkeley, Penn - are no where to be found.

Tulane, Wisconsin and Richmond are all rigorous. Are you just making things up and stating it as fact?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Florida? What are you drinking?

+2 right? SMH

l

Wrong! Go visit and feel the energy of the students. [b]It’s rising up in the ranks and today it attracts some top students. For the whole package it’s got strong academics, students getting jobs after graduation and it’s Gator football team.

My DC told me that as COVID is coming to an end that they have been inside so much that they don’t want a cold New England school where they would be inside and prefer a place with sunshine.

Selecting a school should not be based upon the “energy” (???) of the students on a given day. It’s about learning to write long osiers, to think critically and to get into grad school. I don’t know anyone who went to Univ of Florida and then into an extremely competitive grad school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My nephew goes to Florida. When our families got together recently my kids (W&M, top 10 private) were talking about classes with him and were amazed that most of his schoolwork is online quizzes and worksheets. He hadn't written a paper or done a project all year. They said it sounded like high school.

That is probably fairly typical of big public universities.

I have a kid at Michigan and went to a different Big 10 school decades ago.

Neither of us had quizzes or worksheets. My kid has had papers and exams, a very similar workload to what I had.

I have a kid at West Virginia and has not had quizzes or worksheets. All papers and exams. Two classes are 95% of grade is three tests (other 5 is participate which includes some homework assignments/group projects).

It depends on the major not the school.

Liberal arts… papers/exams/projects
Science… quizzes/tests/worksheets

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My nephew goes to Florida. When our families got together recently my kids (W&M, top 10 private) were talking about classes with him and were amazed that most of his schoolwork is online quizzes and worksheets. He hadn't written a paper or done a project all year. They said it sounded like high school.

That is probably fairly typical of big public universities.

I have a kid at Michigan and went to a different Big 10 school decades ago.

Neither of us had quizzes or worksheets. My kid has had papers and exams, a very similar workload to what I had.

I have a kid at West Virginia and has not had quizzes or worksheets. All papers and exams. Two classes are 95% of grade is three tests (other 5 is participate which includes some homework assignments/group projects).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: U of Michigan, U of Florida and U of Virginia are the All Around Best schools. These three schools are all top 30 ranked schools based on US News and World Report that have strong Division IA sports teams, reasonable tuition (especially for in-state) and students/alumni that actually love attending the school.

Relating to the "top 10" thread, those schools only admit a small number of students (and those are typically legacy, minority, or sports hooks) and cost $75,000 plus per year.

Among the Publics, UC Berkeley, UCLA and U Mich are in a category of their own. All around great schools, many top programs - STEM and non-STEM. I'd add UVA to this category if your focus is exclusively on non-STEM. On par with most top Private schools. All other publics are a step below and you'd choose to attend one of them if the specific program you are interested in ranked high relative to the cost of attendance. For example, UC SD, U Wash, Austin, Georgia Tech, UIUC, Purdue, UMD are all great STEM schools, better than UVA in STEM and waaaay better than Florida. Actually not sure why Florida is ranked 30..

Are they really? If you survey UCLA and Berkeley undergraduate alumni in particular, would they think they had a great experience compared to other schools? I don't think they will (look at Niche, alumni giving rates). If you look at earnings and compare to other schools after adjusting for cost of living where graduates settle and what they major in, do they do better than other public schools? Again, I don't think so.

If you survey the alumni or ANY school, the majority of them will say they had a great experience. I have 2 friends, one works for the post office and the other is the CEO of a mid-size company. Both are extremely happy with their families/lives despite their disparities. Still doesn't negate the fact that the CEO dude's quality of life and life experiences are miles ahead of the other's.

I come across this POV all the time.. earnings adjusted for COL are the same across the country. That may be, at a point in time. However, over 30 years of employment, you also save and invest, buy homes that appreciate, have opportunities that don't even exist at other places, etc. Every friend of mine who chose to go the SF bay area is wealthier than I am. More than a handful of them own homes that are worth more than my 8-figure net worth. Where you begin your career (even if the COLA-adjusted starting salary is the same elsewhere) matters in the long run.

Compared to other schools they don't. If you look at data from Niche and USNWR, UCLA and Berkeley are average to below average in responses to questions on whether alumni got their money's worth, could they get needed classes, quality of teaching and professors interest in student success, and alumni giving rate. In every single category here they are below Michigan and UVA (and other public schools). They are way, way below private schools like Princeton and Duke.

Student opinion is not an accurate metric of the quality of the school. Schools that have easy classes and huge social life (and easy classes that allow for a large amount of time spent partying) will have higher ratings.

More rigor and course difficulty means lower student ratings, but rigor and course difficulty improves the academic reputation of the school.

This is a hilariously stupid take. The students experience isn’t accurate about the quality of the school? That’s literally the most important metric. And your rigor argument is debunked by William and Mary. Very rigorous academics but have the happiest students by Princeton rankings.

Hilariously stupid take? Only to an utterly idiotic moron.

Only look at the colleges ranked by overall satisfaction, the most important metric:

Vanderbilt University (1)
Kansas State (2)
Tulane (3)
Wisconsin (4)
Clemson (5)
Brown (6)
Virginia Tech (7)
Auburn (8)
Lehigh (9)
Thomas Aquinas (10)


Nowhere to be found: Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Princeton, Yale, etc.

Jeez, better send your kids to Kansas State instead of Harvard, based on the most important metric!

You are the one that determined this to be the most important metric and then cherry picked. If you look at the top 20 below for "Their students love these colleges" I would say at least the ones in bold have some reputation for academic rigor (and I am not trying to slight any other schools, it was just my gut reaction). That is over half. There are probably many aspects other than just party school.

Vanderbilt University
Kansas State University
Tulane University
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Clemson University
Brown University
Virginia Tech
Auburn University
Lehigh University
Thomas Aquinas College (CA)
Franklin W. Olin College of Engineering
University of Richmond
Bowdoin College
William & Mary
Emory University
Washington University in St. Louis
United States Military Academy
Rice University
Elon University
University of Vermont

Read through the quote thread again and determine who stated that student experience is the most important metric.

The students experience isn’t accurate about the quality of the school? That’s literally the most important metric.

Huh, looks like its the person being responded to.

The list is not cherry-picked, its literally ranked from 1 to 10.

Half the list are "rigorous" as you define it. Well the other half certainly isn't, and in fact includes well known party schools. An they form the majority of the top half of the list. Kansas State, Tulane, Wisconsin, Clemson, Virginia Tech, Auburn, Lehigh, Elon, Vermont, Richmond.

Even the single Ivy in the list is the one known for being the most relaxed and laid back academically.

Meanwhile schools that everyone considerings rigorous - MIT, Caltech, Columbia, Cornell, Swarthmore, Berkeley, Penn - are no where to be found.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My nephew goes to Florida. When our families got together recently my kids (W&M, top 10 private) were talking about classes with him and were amazed that most of his schoolwork is online quizzes and worksheets. He hadn't written a paper or done a project all year. They said it sounded like high school.

That is probably fairly typical of big public universities.

Online quizzes and worksheets is unsurprising considering you know, its been all online.

As for papers, that depends on the classes he's taking. Large publics tend to have a large variance in the difficulty of classes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My nephew goes to Florida. When our families got together recently my kids (W&M, top 10 private) were talking about classes with him and were amazed that most of his schoolwork is online quizzes and worksheets. He hadn't written a paper or done a project all year. They said it sounded like high school.

That is probably fairly typical of big public universities.

I have a kid at Michigan and went to a different Big 10 school decades ago.

Neither of us had quizzes or worksheets. My kid has had papers and exams, a very similar workload to what I had.

Anonymous wrote: U of Michigan, U of Florida and U of Virginia are the All Around Best schools. These three schools are all top 30 ranked schools based on US News and World Report that have strong Division IA sports teams, reasonable tuition (especially for in-state) and students/alumni that actually love attending the school.

Relating to the "top 10" thread, those schools only admit a small number of students (and those are typically legacy, minority, or sports hooks) and cost $75,000 plus per year.

You are hoping to make something true just through assertion, and elevate U of Florida in the process.

Even on your own criteria, seemingly set at 30 and referencing only US News to exclude anything below U of Florida, you have for some reason excluded from consideration UCLA, UC Berkeley, UNC, and UC Santa Barbara. What separates U of Michigan, U of Florida, and U of Virginia from those schools based on your criteria.

If you are basing this significantly on NCAA sports, UCLA has 119 championships, UNC has 46, Michigan 39, Berkeley 38, Florida 37, and UVA 29 (maybe now 30). So not sure why UCLA, UNC, and Berkeley would be excluded.

For students/alumni that "actually love attending the school" what evidence are you looking at? Not a single one of these shows up in the top 20 in Princeton Review for "students love these colleges" and only UC Santa Barbara shows up in Princeton Review's "happiest students" listing. However, there are other public schools on those lists that would seem worthy of consideration.

For undergraduate academic quality or graduate program quality, not sure why Berkeley, UCLA, and UNC would be excluded, and you could certainly make a case for a number of schools beyond the ones listed above.

Anonymous wrote:My nephew goes to Florida. When our families got together recently my kids (W&M, top 10 private) were talking about classes with him and were amazed that most of his schoolwork is online quizzes and worksheets. He hadn't written a paper or done a project all year. They said it sounded like high school.

That is probably fairly typical of big public universities.